2025 CelticsBlog Fantasy Draft: '05-'25 Edition

[Celtic Fan Forever]

I think my lack of firepower off the bench made the difference from getting closer to the top spot. But, I still am happy I made that trade up to get Ray Allen, he was the guy that felt so perfect in that lineup. No picks for 2 rounds was brutal though.

[Moranis]

Way too much emphasis about fit with my team and not enough on talent.  At the end of the day talent is far more important especially since all of these teams have very similar fit concerns. 

LeBron never does as well in these drafts as he should.  He is always disrespected even though he was won championships under 3 different coaches, in 3 different cities, with 3 vastly different team makeups.  Even though he has played 79 career games for 12 different US National Team with 3 Olympic Golds (and a bronze). The 3 golds is tied with just Melo and Durant for most ever by an American male. 

Yet that guy isnt going to make it work with Doncic and Shaq, 2 guys he has actually played with on actual NBA teams.  Not a chance. 

The talent in this team is just too good.  They'd be almost impossible for any team in this to stop. Just too many great passers and scorers and even the defense is disrespected as the team has a DPOY (Noah), 3 different 2nd place DPOY finishes (LeBron, Wemby, Daniels), a 3rd place DPOY (Wallace), and Shaq finished 8th.  So that is half the team worthy of top 10 DPOY votes and 5 different guys in the top 3 as defenders.  You can't stop them and yet you can't score on them. 

[Who]

Some day I'd like to a do no 3-pointer league comprised exclusively of 21st century guys.

Oh, that is cool. I'd like that too.

[snively]

I think my lack of firepower off the bench made the difference from getting closer to the top spot. But, I still am happy I made that trade up to get Ray Allen, he was the guy that felt so perfect in that lineup. No picks for 2 rounds was brutal though.

Some of the late guys I would have liked for your bench - Rose, Redd, LMA or Sheed. Loved the Hayward pick. Liked the Bogut one as well. Just thought FVV/OG/Ibaka were more third string guys.

[smokeablount]

I think my lack of firepower off the bench made the difference from getting closer to the top spot. But, I still am happy I made that trade up to get Ray Allen, he was the guy that felt so perfect in that lineup. No picks for 2 rounds was brutal though.

Some of the late guys I would have liked for your bench - Rose, Redd, LMA or Sheed. Loved the Hayward pick. Liked the Bogut one as well. Just thought FVV/OG/Ibaka were more third string guys.

He went for efficient and versatile 2-way players with OG and Ibaka. I think OG and Ibaka were good mid to late picks as backups if you can mix them in with a potent starting lineup where all 5 guys can score at all 3 levels and do nearly anything on the court

[smokeablount]

Some day I'd like to a do no 3-pointer league comprised exclusively of 21st century guys.

Oh, that is cool. I'd like that too.

And we can. I?m happy to organize. Just let me know how long a break you guys want after this one when the sim is done

[Celtic Fan Forever]

Some day I'd like to a do no 3-pointer league comprised exclusively of 21st century guys.

Oh, that is cool. I'd like that too.

And we can. I?m happy to organize. Just let me know how long a break you guys want after this one when the sim is done

I would definitely join!

[smokeablount]

As you know, our historic teams went well over the standard salary cap for the sim engine, whatifsports.

My team came in at over $88m and half the teams came in at $83m or higher, while the salary cap for a standard league is $47m.

However, we overpaid for tons of minutes we don?t use and I wondered if there was a way to try and recreate my team but stay under the salary cap and make as few concessions as possible

I ended up with a complete team less than $2k in free cap that should have enough allotted minutes to just play out a season

I got 6 guys on my OG team, 2 guys they were targets that I wanted to draft if they lasted until my next pick or another round, 1 guy I liked but wasn?t good enough to draft, 1 salary filler, and 2 guys before our timeframe who are both go to?s on my teams (one is a cheap defensive ace, one a dirt cheap minutes eater)

SGA, 24-25
Danny Green, 12-13
Siakam, 18-19
Mobley, 24-25
Rudy, 23-24

KD, 20-21
Haliburton, 21-22
Chet, 24-25
Thybulle, 22-23
Jared Dudley, 19-20 (5-6 mpg)

Manute Bol 92-93
John Duren, 80-81 (5-6 mpg)

It maintains my high efficiency / elite D / versatility North Star metrics albeit with compromises that were necessary to make

I have it entered into a 6 team, 10 game exhibition season that will begin on Sunday afternoon, runs for 5 days. I hope to go 7-3

 

[Roy H.]

I still have no idea how the simulator works.

It's interesting, the reason I'm skeptical of simulations is that I suspect that they don't accurately measure "fit", etc.  But, I think our voting may have overcorrected for that.  Cleveland doesn't "fit" great, but it's got fantastic talent.  Meanwhile, I think Boston fit together extremely well by some guys who aren't primary ball handlers, but they suffered in the voting, as well.  Tim finished 10th but had a ton of sheer talent; Dons had guys that fit together well.  We were a bit all over the place this year.

I think we'll see more consistent, objective results from the Sim, I just doubt we'll all agree with those results.

[snively]

I think my lack of firepower off the bench made the difference from getting closer to the top spot. But, I still am happy I made that trade up to get Ray Allen, he was the guy that felt so perfect in that lineup. No picks for 2 rounds was brutal though.

Some of the late guys I would have liked for your bench - Rose, Redd, LMA or Sheed. Loved the Hayward pick. Liked the Bogut one as well. Just thought FVV/OG/Ibaka were more third string guys.

He went for efficient and versatile 2-way players with OG and Ibaka. I think OG and Ibaka were good mid to late picks as backups if you can mix them in with a potent starting lineup where all 5 guys can score at all 3 levels and do nearly anything on the court

I think there are star level role players in a league like this and the next tier of role players like Ibaka belong on the third string.

Look at some of the bench bigs in this league. Big Ben, Sheed, LMA, KAT, Brand... They either bring elite one way play or superior two way play... Ditto with the guards.

It's hard to get away with solid. You need guys that can fill a role AND raise the level of the team.

[Roy H.]

I think my lack of firepower off the bench made the difference from getting closer to the top spot. But, I still am happy I made that trade up to get Ray Allen, he was the guy that felt so perfect in that lineup. No picks for 2 rounds was brutal though.

Some of the late guys I would have liked for your bench - Rose, Redd, LMA or Sheed. Loved the Hayward pick. Liked the Bogut one as well. Just thought FVV/OG/Ibaka were more third string guys.

He went for efficient and versatile 2-way players with OG and Ibaka. I think OG and Ibaka were good mid to late picks as backups if you can mix them in with a potent starting lineup where all 5 guys can score at all 3 levels and do nearly anything on the court

I think there are star level role players in a league like this and the next tier of role players like Ibaka belong on the third string.

Look at some of the bench bigs in this league. Big Ben, Sheed, LMA, KAT, Brand... They either bring elite one way play or superior two way play... Ditto with the guards.

It's hard to get away with solid. You need guys that can fill a role AND raise the level of the team.

I view it differently.

Take KAT, for example.  He's a stats darling.  But, in a league like this, I don't see him as being all that impactful.  He's a soft player on both ends.  The only thing he can be counted on for is three point sniping.

Meanwhile, Ibaka was all-defense and top-5 in DPOY voting for three straight seasons, and added 15/9 with a credible outside shot and good efficiency.  And, unlike KAT, he's been to the NBA Finals (twice, including a ring with Toronto).

To me, I'd take Ibaka.

==========================================================

Another thing I've noticed in some of the voting justifications:  the idea that a defense has to be perfect, or can have no weaknesses.  First, that's silly:  all defenses will have some vulnerabilities.

But, more importantly:  it's not a flaw if a guy give up 20 ppg to his opponent, but scores 30 ppg.  And, it's not a feature if a guy scores 25 ppg, but gives up 30 ppg. 

Using my team as an example:  Steph Curry isn't an elite-level defender.  (He's a good one, though, or was in his prime.)  He's going to give up points.  But, in terms of points scored and points created, he's a top-5 impact player in this (or any other) league.  To downvote Boston because Steph Curry is somehow a negative to the defense...  Well, that doesn't make any sense at all, because the value he brings is higher than any other PG out there. 

But, the biggest thing is consistency.  Some teams are downgraded because they have "weak" defenders, whereas others are given a pass.  New York is going to finish in the top-3, despite having one terrible, league-worst type defender (Steve Nash), and one Hedo-level defender (Ginobili).  It seems like the standards voters applied are a tad bit arbitrary.

[snively]

I think my lack of firepower off the bench made the difference from getting closer to the top spot. But, I still am happy I made that trade up to get Ray Allen, he was the guy that felt so perfect in that lineup. No picks for 2 rounds was brutal though.

Some of the late guys I would have liked for your bench - Rose, Redd, LMA or Sheed. Loved the Hayward pick. Liked the Bogut one as well. Just thought FVV/OG/Ibaka were more third string guys.

He went for efficient and versatile 2-way players with OG and Ibaka. I think OG and Ibaka were good mid to late picks as backups if you can mix them in with a potent starting lineup where all 5 guys can score at all 3 levels and do nearly anything on the court

I think there are star level role players in a league like this and the next tier of role players like Ibaka belong on the third string.

Look at some of the bench bigs in this league. Big Ben, Sheed, LMA, KAT, Brand... They either bring elite one way play or superior two way play... Ditto with the guards.

It's hard to get away with solid. You need guys that can fill a role AND raise the level of the team.

I view it differently.

Take KAT, for example.  He's a stats darling.  But, in a league like this, I don't see him as being all that impactful.  He's a soft player on both ends.  The only thing he can be counted on for is three point sniping.

Meanwhile, Ibaka was all-defense and top-5 in DPOY voting for three straight seasons, and added 15/9 with a credible outside shot and good efficiency.  And, unlike KAT, he's been to the NBA Finals (twice, including a ring with Toronto).

To me, I'd take Ibaka.

==========================================================

Another thing I've noticed in some of the voting justifications:  the idea that a defense has to be perfect, or can have no weaknesses.  First, that's silly:  all defenses will have some vulnerabilities.

But, more importantly:  it's not a flaw if a guy give up 20 ppg to his opponent, but scores 30 ppg.  And, it's not a feature if a guy scores 25 ppg, but gives up 30 ppg. 

Using my team as an example:  Steph Curry isn't an elite-level defender.  (He's a good one, though, or was in his prime.)  He's going to give up points.  But, in terms of points scored and points created, he's a top-5 impact player in this (or any other) league.  To downvote Boston because Steph Curry is somehow a negative to the defense...  Well, that doesn't make any sense at all, because the value he brings is higher than any other PG out there. 

But, the biggest thing is consistency.  Some teams are downgraded because they have "weak" defenders, whereas others are given a pass.  New York is going to finish in the top-3, despite having one terrible, league-worst type defender (Steve Nash), and one Hedo-level defender (Ginobili).  It seems like the standards voters applied are a tad bit arbitrary.

I like Manu a lot better than Hedo defensively. Faster, quicker, plays with more intensity. A defensive playmaker. His knocks are a lack of size and bulk. I think that's why there were more gripes for your Curry/Hedo pairing than Who's Nash/Manu duo.

Also I'm not a big KAT fan but his offensive package at 7 foot is so good I think he causes a lot of problems for opposing D even with softness factored in. Ibaka I thought was in that Camby category of shotblocker more than difference maker on D and his standstill jumpshooting wasn't enough offensive contribution, esp. given that he was sharing the court with FVV, OG and Bogut, making it by far one of the weaker bench offenses.

[Roy H.]

... esp. given that he was sharing the court with FVV, OG and Bogut, making it by far one of the weaker bench offenses.

This is another assumption I've seen multiple times.  Is there any indication that CFF intends to role out his bench as a unit?  Is any GM in this league doing that?

I think it's a mistake to consider benches like that.  I assume that they're all being blended in with the starters.

[Who]

I had KAT in my top 20 centers but near the bottom. Due to his defense at a defensively important position. Getting Bam Adebayo was great for OKC. Bam covered that issue. He can play PF or C. Give them that defensive presence. I had Bam rated similarly to Al Horford. Then they had the defensive option or the offensive option based on situation. Great optionality.

I wasn't high on Ibaka. I had him as the worst passer & worst ball-handler at PF. Bad hands. Worst shot-creation. A stand still 3 point shooter who needs time to get his shot off otherwise he can't shoot from there. A good 2 point jump-shooter. No post game. Garbage man in the paint. Not much of a PnR player. Rarely got to the FT line. That collection of offensive skills had him at the bottom of the PF players offensively. He was an adequate but below average rebounder. His defense was very good. His strong defense lifted him off the bottom of my PF rankings but he was still close to the bottom for me. Solid for a 9th / 10th man.

I didn't think Ibaka had that good of an impact on Spain when he was a 6th man for them. His lack of offensive skill limited him to a garbage man role. He often posted disappointing adjusted plus/minus numbers on the offensive end in the NBA due to his inability to pass the ball. His raw numbers would often hide that. Not a cerebral offensive player - the opposite of one.

[snively]

... esp. given that he was sharing the court with FVV, OG and Bogut, making it by far one of the weaker bench offenses.

This is another assumption I've seen multiple times.  Is there any indication that CFF intends to role out his bench as a unit?  Is any GM in this league doing that?

I think it's a mistake to consider benches like that.  I assume that they're all being blended in with the starters.

I think 3-4 bench guys at a time is a reasonable assumption.