I Think I Am Aboard The Tank Train Now

[Neurotic Guy]

The real question is, could they have reasonably contended next year.  I'm not so sure of that given age, injury history, etc.

Let?s assume there were 3 basic options in the offseason:
1) Run it back without Tatum
2) Salary cap reset with player development (ie actual choice made)
3) Trade Brown, maybe White for young role players, maybe a future all-star, and ping pong balls

Which one is the most likely to lead to a ?26 championship caliber team?

depends on the trade. Role players aren't the same thing as all star caliber players.  I don't think 1 or 2 would have yielded a contender without hitting the lottery this summer.

The run was over in my view.  10 years is a nice long run, changes needed to be made.

Remember they lost in the 2nd round with a mostly healthy team. They weren't coming off the title, they were coming off a beat down in the 2nd round to a team that then lost in the ECF.

Mostly healthy? Brown was playing on a torn meniscus, Porzingis had some weird post viral syndrome, and Jrue holiday was dealing with a hamstring injury. They weren't close to healthy.

Yes. They weren?t looking like they could repeat, but no question injuries were part of that picture.

[radiohead]

KP hasn?t been doing much for the Hawks. Jrue though has been balling for the Blazers though. I think Brad made the right decisions. Running it back was not a guarantee that we would be a top contender for the championship. I just hope the ?rebuild? doesn?t last beyond this season.

[Moranis]

The real question is, could they have reasonably contended next year.  I'm not so sure of that given age, injury history, etc.

Let?s assume there were 3 basic options in the offseason:
1) Run it back without Tatum
2) Salary cap reset with player development (ie actual choice made)
3) Trade Brown, maybe White for young role players, maybe a future all-star, and ping pong balls

Which one is the most likely to lead to a ?26 championship caliber team?

depends on the trade. Role players aren't the same thing as all star caliber players.  I don't think 1 or 2 would have yielded a contender without hitting the lottery this summer.

The run was over in my view.  10 years is a nice long run, changes needed to be made.

Remember they lost in the 2nd round with a mostly healthy team. They weren't coming off the title, they were coming off a beat down in the 2nd round to a team that then lost in the ECF.

Mostly healthy? Brown was playing on a torn meniscus, Porzingis had some weird post viral syndrome, and Jrue holiday was dealing with a hamstring injury. They weren't close to healthy.

Brown looked just fine against the Magic though and played over 37 mpg against the Knicks.  Holiday was coming back from injury but also started every game and played over 32 mpg against the Knicks.  Zinger barely played the title season as well.  Relying on Zinger to be healthy is a fools errand.  The Celtics were most healthy against the Knicks and lost badly.  Absolutely should have won the first two games and the series (and Tatum likely doesn't get hurt), but they didn't.  They got embarrassed by a team that designed its roster with beating the Celtics in mind and that is exactly what they did.  They put pressure on Tatum and Brown and the rest of the team just wasn't good enough.  That was the fundamental problem with bringing the team back.  Boston would have been too old, too injury prone, and simply not good enough going forward, especially next year when Tatum is back.  In my view, they absolutely would not have won the title again if they mostly brought the team back.  The window was over.  They had to make moves.  I don't think they went far enough, but making moves was absolutely the correct decision, because running it back just would have delayed the inevitable. 

[Who]

Brown looked just fine against the Magic though and played over 37 mpg against the Knicks.  Holiday was coming back from injury but also started every game and played over 32 mpg against the Knicks.  Zinger barely played the title season as well.  Relying on Zinger to be healthy is a fools errand. 

The Celtics were mostly healthy against the Knicks and lost badly.  Absolutely should have won the first two games and the series (and Tatum likely doesn't get hurt), but they didn't.  They got embarrassed by a team that designed its roster with beating the Celtics in mind and that is exactly what they did.  They put pressure on Tatum and Brown and the rest of the team just wasn't good enough. 

That was the fundamental problem with bringing the team back.  Boston would have been too old, too injury prone, and simply not good enough going forward, especially next year when Tatum is back.  In my view, they absolutely would not have won the title again if they mostly brought the team back.  The window was over.  They had to make moves.  I don't think they went far enough, but making moves was absolutely the correct decision, because running it back just would have delayed the inevitable.

I don't think the 2025 Celtics weren't good enough to beat the Knicks (or that their supporting cast around the Jays wasn't good enough). They just didn't play well in the series. It happens. It sucks. But it happens.

I'd still feel confident of beating that same Knicks team in a rematch with that same Celtics team. I still believe that Celtics team was the best team in the East last season and would have been the best team in the East again this season (assuming Tatum comes back and plays at a top 10 player in the league level). So I would have brought it back. I did not and do not believe the window had closed. That group was still very much a title contender.

Mostly healthy in the Knicks series? I would say healthy enough. They were healthy enough to win that series. They did not lose because of bad health. They lost because guys underperformed.

[Who]

I think they would have been a top 4 without Tatum if they brought last year's group back. Then Tatum's return being the impetus to make them a true title contender or not - depending on what level he is able to perform at this year post injury.

The East is weak at the top of the conference. This would have been a formidable team without Tatum. Their experience / know how / chemistry. They would have been a talented group.

A bit like the Raptors after Kawhi left. They went 53 wins 19 losses. Or the Bulls after MJ left in 1993. The Bulls went 55-27.

I would expect this Celtics team if brought back to be a 48-52 win team without Tatum. That type of range. I believe that will be enough to be a top 4 team in the East given the weakness at the top of the East this year. Then Tatum's return being the piece they need to change them from a good regular season team to a true title contender.

[slamtheking]

I think they would have been a top 4 without Tatum if they brought last year's group back. Then Tatum's return being the impetus to make them a true title contender or not - depending on what level he is able to perform at this year post injury.

The East is weak at the top of the conference. This would have been a formidable team without Tatum. Their experience / know how / chemistry. They would have been a talented group.

A bit like the Raptors after Kawhi left. They went 53 wins 19 losses. Or the Bulls after MJ left in 1993. The Bulls went 55-27.

I would expect this Celtics team if brought back to be a 48-52 win team without Tatum. That type of range. I believe that will be enough to be a top 4 team in the East given the weakness at the top of the East this year. Then Tatum's return being the piece they need to change them from a good regular season team to a true title contender.

This.

Team may not have kept Kornet but with Queta's improved play this year, I think that becomes a non-factor.  team wouldn't have Simons' offense but we'd have Jrue to play steady PG which would hopefully help White play like his normal self and push PP back to the bench where he'd hopefully be playing at his normal level.  C's keep KP, Al and Jrue and this team is challenging for the best record in the East this year.

Not sure if Brad still signs Minott and Garza but if he does, C's bench is very solid.  With Tatum out, not sure how much time Baylor, Hugo and Walsh are getting but we'd be in less of a position of having to rely on any of them to make a major contribution this year.

[Donoghus]

The real question is, could they have reasonably contended next year.  I'm not so sure of that given age, injury history, etc.

Let?s assume there were 3 basic options in the offseason:
1) Run it back without Tatum
2) Salary cap reset with player development (ie actual choice made)
3) Trade Brown, maybe White for young role players, maybe a future all-star, and ping pong balls

Which one is the most likely to lead to a ?26 championship caliber team?

depends on the trade. Role players aren't the same thing as all star caliber players.  I don't think 1 or 2 would have yielded a contender without hitting the lottery this summer.

The run was over in my view.  10 years is a nice long run, changes needed to be made.

Remember they lost in the 2nd round with a mostly healthy team. They weren't coming off the title, they were coming off a beat down in the 2nd round to a team that then lost in the ECF.

Mostly healthy? Brown was playing on a torn meniscus, Porzingis had some weird post viral syndrome, and Jrue holiday was dealing with a hamstring injury. They weren't close to healthy.

Brown looked just fine against the Magic though and played over 37 mpg against the Knicks.  Holiday was coming back from injury but also started every game and played over 32 mpg against the Knicks.  Zinger barely played the title season as well.  Relying on Zinger to be healthy is a fools errand.  The Celtics were most healthy against the Knicks and lost badly.  Absolutely should have won the first two games and the series (and Tatum likely doesn't get hurt), but they didn't.  They got embarrassed by a team that designed its roster with beating the Celtics in mind and that is exactly what they did.  They put pressure on Tatum and Brown and the rest of the team just wasn't good enough.  That was the fundamental problem with bringing the team back.  Boston would have been too old, too injury prone, and simply not good enough going forward, especially next year when Tatum is back.  In my view, they absolutely would not have won the title again if they mostly brought the team back.  The window was over.  They had to make moves.  I don't think they went far enough, but making moves was absolutely the correct decision, because running it back just would have delayed the inevitable.

They should've won the NY series but they sure as hell weren't a healthy squad.

[SHAQATTACK]

We took a gut punch with personnel . Low expectations for me

[Goldstar88]

[Vermont Green]

I think they would have been a top 4 without Tatum if they brought last year's group back.

I am not so sure about this.  I think you are factoring in that White, Pritchard, and Hauser are all playing to the same level they did last season.  Holiday is better than Simons, but his numbers in POR are not better than Simons' numbers in POR.  If Holiday were still in BOS, would the same thing be happening to him that is happening to White?  I think there is a good chance.  Porzingis for sure improves our big rotation, but he hasn't made ATL a top 4 team.  Horford is hurt and Kornet is a bench player.

I wonder where the team would be if just White, Prichard, and Hauser were playing the same as last season.  How much better is this team just from that?  One factor no doubt is that Tatum helped make these players better.  He probably would help make Simons better too.

If not for the Apron penalties, BOS would have run the team back.  If they had kept everyone, the team would be better.  Maybe White would be playing better too.  Not sure where this gets the team though.