I Think I Am Aboard The Tank Train Now

[keevsnick]

Making the playoffs does 0 for us.

At this point I'd be open to trading brown for haul and let JT and White lead the team the year after.

All depends on the market doesnt it? I think the fact that no one blew us away by draft night indicates theres not going to be that big offer out there.

I suppose the other possible shoe to drop would be if this Turner to Milwaukee move shuts the door on teams Giannis hopes. Maybe then some teams would pivot to Brown. Just dont see it as realistic at this point.

Its not like the first day of FA has been some big surprise. I suppose we may have expected to be able to bring back Luke, but does Luke Kornet really change the math on a Jaylen Brown trade? Id hope not.

Agree. Anything short of, say, Brown to the Kings for Sabonis and five firsts is going to be turned down.

And why would the Kings do that anyway? I think Brown is the better player, but if you're trading for a player like him the whole point is to pair him with another all-nba caliber guy not swap guys.

[mef730]

Making the playoffs does 0 for us.

At this point I'd be open to trading brown for haul and let JT and White lead the team the year after.

All depends on the market doesnt it? I think the fact that no one blew us away by draft night indicates theres not going to be that big offer out there.

I suppose the other possible shoe to drop would be if this Turner to Milwaukee move shuts the door on teams Giannis hopes. Maybe then some teams would pivot to Brown. Just dont see it as realistic at this point.

Its not like the first day of FA has been some big surprise. I suppose we may have expected to be able to bring back Luke, but does Luke Kornet really change the math on a Jaylen Brown trade? Id hope not.

Agree. Anything short of, say, Brown to the Kings for Sabonis and five firsts is going to be turned down.

And why would the Kings do that anyway? I think Brown is the better player, but if you're trading for a player like him the whole point is to pair him with another all-nba caliber guy not swap guys.

No way they would. My point is that it is going to be impossible for anyone to offer what the Celtics would feel is acceptable for JB.

[ozgod]

I'm not ready to get on yet. I think we're going to be a top 6 seed at least with how weak the East will be. Without knowing what moves the other teams will make, as the rosters are right now you can't tell me we will be worse than WAS, CHA, BRK, TOR, ATL, CHI...and we're probably still better than IND without Hali, MIL without Dame, Brook and maybe Giannis, or MIA. That leaves CLE, NYK, ORL, PHI and maybe DET better than us.

Bit early to slit wrists 

The East doesn't have any top tier contenders but there are a lot of good teams.  Boston is no better than a play in team if Brown stays mostly healthy.  They are not a drag though and that is what they should be going for.  Boston absolutely should tank this season and get out of the tax entirety to start that clock over as well.

It makes sense to get out of the tax given how close we are to getting there already, given we've lost Luke and probably Al as well, but to tank we would need to sit Jaylen and Derrick or they would have to develop "injuries". You definitely can't tell players not to put in their best, and the NBA won't let us sit them without an injury. I get doing it for strategic reasons to get a draft pick but if you want to do a 2024 Philly we need Jaylen and Derrick to injure themselves or find a really good doctor 

Of course if they don't want to keep paying Jaylen they could break his contract up for picks and multiple role players/expirings and do it that way. White all on his own might struggle to keep them out of the lottery. Then the question comes down to "is Jaylen worth keeping" and then you have the pro- and against- Jaylen arguments on that.

I just feel like these days the easy answer to an upcoming tough season is "tank". I get the appeal, plus if you're tanking as a fan your expectations are low so maybe it hurts less? A quarter of the way through last season my friend who is a Sixers fan wanted to tank already, because "I'd rather hope for Cooper Flagg than hope to scrape into the playoffs".

I guess here in the US we have been conditioned to be "championship or bust" fans. In the English Premier League, and a lot of the European leagues, fans become fans of their soccer clubs largely because of geography, they go and support their local if they grew up in Leicester or Leeds or Sunderland or Fulham, because there's no salary cap there's only ever 5 or 6 teams (Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham) that really have a chance to win it, every year you go in as a fan knowing you have no chance to win the flag. But you still cheer for the team no matter what, because it's in your blood. Over here we tend to lose interest just because we're going to have a bad season. I'm not criticizing anyone for it, it's just an interesting observation.

I guess in a way it's like cheering for Boston College in college football...you know you're never going to win the national championship, but you cheer for them all the same because expectations are zero 

[tazzmaniac]

I'm not ready to get on yet. I think we're going to be a top 6 seed at least with how weak the East will be. Without knowing what moves the other teams will make, as the rosters are right now you can't tell me we will be worse than WAS, CHA, BRK, TOR, ATL, CHI...and we're probably still better than IND without Hali, MIL without Dame, Brook and maybe Giannis, or MIA. That leaves CLE, NYK, ORL, PHI and maybe DET better than us.

Bit early to slit wrists 

The East doesn't have any top tier contenders but there are a lot of good teams.  Boston is no better than a play in team if Brown stays mostly healthy.  They are not a drag though and that is what they should be going for.  Boston absolutely should tank this season and get out of the tax entirety to start that clock over as well.

It makes sense to get out of the tax given how close we are to getting there already, given we've lost Luke and probably Al as well, but to tank we would need to sit Jaylen and Derrick or they would have to develop "injuries". You definitely can't tell players not to put in their best, and the NBA won't let us sit them without an injury. I get doing it for strategic reasons to get a draft pick but if you want to do a 2024 Philly we need Jaylen and Derrick to injure themselves or find a really good doctor 

Of course if they don't want to keep paying Jaylen they could break his contract up for picks and multiple role players/expirings and do it that way. White all on his own might struggle to keep them out of the lottery. Then the question comes down to "is Jaylen worth keeping" and then you have the pro- and against- Jaylen arguments on that.

I just feel like these days the easy answer to an upcoming tough season is "tank". I get the appeal, plus if you're tanking as a fan your expectations are low so maybe it hurts less? A quarter of the way through last season my friend who is a Sixers fan wanted to tank already, because "I'd rather hope for Cooper Flagg than hope to scrape into the playoffs".

I guess here in the US we have been conditioned to be "championship or bust" fans. In the English Premier League, and a lot of the European leagues, fans become fans of their soccer clubs largely because of geography, they go and support their local if they grew up in Leicester or Leeds or Sunderland or Fulham, because there's no salary cap there's only ever 5 or 6 teams (Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham) that really have a chance to win it, every year you go in as a fan knowing you have no chance to win the flag. But you still cheer for the team no matter what, because it's in your blood. Over here we tend to lose interest just because we're going to have a bad season. I'm not criticizing anyone for it, it's just an interesting observation.

I guess in a way it's like cheering for Boston College in college football...you know you're never going to win the national championship, but you cheer for them all the same because expectations are zero 

Losing Tatum, KP, Holiday and Horford and replacing them with much less talented players is worth a lot of losses.  The Bigs currently are Queta, Tillman, Niang and Garza.  That big lineup is worth a lot of losses.  I'm assuming Horford is gone.  How many other teams have as bad or worse lineup of bigs?  The team is still looking to cut salary so Simons, Niang and/or Hauser are potentially going to get moved for lesser players.  Is anybody currently on the roster an average or better defender besides JB, White and Hauser? 

[Celtics4ever]

I have read that Hugo gets after it on defense, and seen some tape of Minott to indicate he plays D.

[SHAQATTACK]

Unless Tatum and Brown both have KD level miracles of recovery given to them ?..return to normal , then?.

Yeah , the TANK train might be pulling up to the station sooner than latter

[Phantom255x]

Next year?s class is expected to be deep. Not like this year where it was just Flagg. Even getting a Top-5 pick can be handy

[Moranis]

We may well be in store for a rough season. But tanking won't help anything unless you get lucky in the lottery. Anyone from the first pick or two on down is likely to not be a ton of help in 26-27.  I could however be convinced to move Jaylen for the right deal.

Even if the pick doesn't help in 26/27 it has significantly more value in a trade the higher it is.  Dybantsa is near a Flagg level prospect.  Peterson, Boozer, Stokes, and Cenac are all very high level prospects.  And there are a couple of others with solid potential as well.

Maybe it is next summer Giannis decides he wants to leave Milwaukee. You have a top draft pick and you might be at the top of Milwaukee's list. So even if on3 of those guys isn't ready to meaningfully contribute,  the trade value alone is worth it.

[Phantom255x]

We may well be in store for a rough season. But tanking won't help anything unless you get lucky in the lottery. Anyone from the first pick or two on down is likely to not be a ton of help in 26-27.  I could however be convinced to move Jaylen for the right deal.

Even if the pick doesn't help in 26/27 it has significantly more value in a trade the higher it is.  Dybantsa is near a Flagg level prospect.  Peterson, Boozer, Stokes, and Cenac are all very high level prospects.  And there are a couple of others with solid potential as well.

Maybe it is next summer Giannis decides he wants to leave Milwaukee. You have a top draft pick and you might be at the top of Milwaukee's list. So even if on3 of those guys isn't ready to meaningfully contribute,  the trade value alone is worth it.

[lbgreen33]

Not to over simplify things, but JT got knocked out for next season.
I think Brad knew that night, well no sense paying JH, KP, AH, LK.
I mean he made those moves for a Ring and we got one!!  Without JT, we are not winning it next year, so why pay them?
So, he didn't. Did he do it to Tank? No, he did it because what else was he gonna do? So, ya, we are not paying those extra pieces to win, because We are not winning next year. Now, Brad has to decide, how much are you willing to give up to get under the 2nd apron? Players like DW and JB don't come around very often! So, you don't want to lose them. They are not Fringe players you need to win the chip, they are literally your team when JT comes back. Then you go find the Fringe players to try again with, when JT is healthy.  So, where does that leave us for next year? I don't think Brad cares, I do not think he is thinking of a draft pick, I think Brad is trying to figure out the best way to take another shot at a ring when Tatum is healthy again.

[Surferdad]

Not to over simplify things, but JT got knocked out for next season.
I think Brad knew that night, well no sense paying JH, KP, AH, LK.
I mean he made those moves for a Ring and we got one!!  Without JT, we are not winning it next year, so why pay them?
So, he didn't. Did he do it to Tank? No, he did it because what else was he gonna do? So, ya, we are not paying those extra pieces to win, because We are not winning next year. Now, Brad has to decide, how much are you willing to give up to get under the 2nd apron? Players like DW and JB don't come around very often! So, you don't want to lose them. They are not Fringe players you need to win the chip, they are literally your team when JT comes back. Then you go find the Fringe players to try again with, when JT is healthy.  So, where does that leave us for next year? I don't think Brad cares, I do not think he is thinking of a draft pick, I think Brad is trying to figure out the best way to take another shot at a ring when Tatum is healthy again.

TP for the excellent interpretation. I would only add that for next season, Brad DOES care in that he is likely hoping for one or more players to emerge from the pack below the core of JT/JB/DW/PP. This will give him a lot more flexibility in trades due to their increased value, or simply because an emerging player might be a keeper.