NBA Greed

[johnnygreen]

Tatum had his surgery performed the next day. I'm curious if that will help with his time frame for recovery compared to Dame and whenever Haliburton has his surgery.

[Moranis]

I wonder if it may be a factor that many players are beginning their NBA careers at 19 as opposed to 22. Many haven?t developed their adult body and are playing long seasons against adult players instead of playing a third of the number of games against college players in 40-minute games. The ?playoffs? are round robin tournaments in their conference and then in a bigger tournament if they make it.  Maybe wear and tear on younger tendons is having an impact?  But first things first, are there really significantly more tendon ruptures now then in years past?

Yes, I just used those two players as an example because they are stars in their prime.

2024-25 Achilles Injuries

- Tyrese Haliburton (Torn right Achilles tendon)

- Jayson Tatum (Torn right Achilles tendon)

- Damian Lillard (Torn left Achilles tendon)

- Kyrie Irving (Torn left ACL)

- Dejounte Murray (Torn right Achilles tendon)

- De'Anthony Melton (Torn left ACL)

- Isaiah Jackson (Torn right Achilles tendon)

- Grant Williams (Torn ACL with meniscus damage)

- Moritz Wagner (Torn left ACL)

ACL are not achilles

[Donoghus]

Saw some good discourse on Twitter last night right after the Hali injury and it was focused on a few areas;  athleticism involved in the game these days, specialization, &  just general of years of overuse.

Jared Weiss
@JaredWeissNBA
?
14h
The main thing that training staffs have to constantly evaluate is how do you optimize players' bodies and handle their day-to-day maintenance in a league that has more sprinting and more high-torque acceleration than ever before. They're all aware of this, but it's clearly becoming a bigger risk factor as the pace has skyrocketed in recent years.

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
This starts with better managing athletes when they are kids.

We ask basketball, soccer, baseball (and more) players to play a million games, on top of near-daily practices, from the time they are six years old. And it's because the path to college bascially demands it.

Our sports system in the US is very broken in many, many ways.

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
We ask these kids to play 4-8 games per weekend in some sports. Then to train 4-5 times per week. And we specialize at a very young age now, because if you don't specialize, you fall behind the kids who do.

And it's because most are chasing/hoping for a college scholarship. The clubs know it. The coaches know it. There's just no let up.

[Celtics4ever]

Interesting study on this Achilles tears.

National Basketball Association players between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons,  Using public data obtained from injury records, press communication, and player profiles    0.92 per 450 people-year  there were 44 cases between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons.  The general population was 2.1 per 100,000 people-year.

Basketball was the most involved sport, being responsible for 48% of the breaks related to the sport, and 32% of the total ruptures of the Achilles tendon.

The relationship between Achilles' tendon rupture and basketball is clear. While among sports, at the population level, the most frequent injury mechanism is basketball, and at the professional level, there are uncertain results.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8440049/


Basketball players are at great risk for this injury.   I found the historical aspect of this study fascinating.

[Redz]

Interesting study on this Achilles tears.

National Basketball Association players between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons,  Using public data obtained from injury records, press communication, and player profiles    0.92 per 450 people-year  there were 44 cases between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons.  The general population was 2.1 per 100,000 people-year.

Basketball was the most involved sport, being responsible for 48% of the breaks related to the sport, and 32% of the total ruptures of the Achilles tendon.

The relationship between Achilles' tendon rupture and basketball is clear. While among sports, at the population level, the most frequent injury mechanism is basketball, and at the professional level, there are uncertain results.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8440049/


Basketball players are at great risk for this injury.   I found the historical aspect of this study fascinating.

I hear pickle ball is making some solid inroads to this statistical achilles rupture dominance.

[Roy H.]

Interesting study on this Achilles tears.

National Basketball Association players between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons,  Using public data obtained from injury records, press communication, and player profiles    0.92 per 450 people-year  there were 44 cases between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons.  The general population was 2.1 per 100,000 people-year.

Basketball was the most involved sport, being responsible for 48% of the breaks related to the sport, and 32% of the total ruptures of the Achilles tendon.

The relationship between Achilles' tendon rupture and basketball is clear. While among sports, at the population level, the most frequent injury mechanism is basketball, and at the professional level, there are uncertain results.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8440049/


Basketball players are at great risk for this injury.   I found the historical aspect of this study fascinating.

Just reading your quoted part, that's roughly one player per season.  This year definitely seems to have seen an uptick. 

[Donoghus]

Interesting study on this Achilles tears.

National Basketball Association players between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons,  Using public data obtained from injury records, press communication, and player profiles    0.92 per 450 people-year  there were 44 cases between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons.  The general population was 2.1 per 100,000 people-year.

Basketball was the most involved sport, being responsible for 48% of the breaks related to the sport, and 32% of the total ruptures of the Achilles tendon.

The relationship between Achilles' tendon rupture and basketball is clear. While among sports, at the population level, the most frequent injury mechanism is basketball, and at the professional level, there are uncertain results.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8440049/


Basketball players are at great risk for this injury.   I found the historical aspect of this study fascinating.

I hear pickle ball is making some solid inroads to this statistical achilles rupture dominance.

I have to imagine "Over 30" men's leagues still reign supreme.

[BitterJim]

Interesting study on this Achilles tears.

National Basketball Association players between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons,  Using public data obtained from injury records, press communication, and player profiles    0.92 per 450 people-year  there were 44 cases between the 1969 to 1970 and 2017 to 2018 seasons.  The general population was 2.1 per 100,000 people-year.

Basketball was the most involved sport, being responsible for 48% of the breaks related to the sport, and 32% of the total ruptures of the Achilles tendon.

The relationship between Achilles' tendon rupture and basketball is clear. While among sports, at the population level, the most frequent injury mechanism is basketball, and at the professional level, there are uncertain results.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8440049/


Basketball players are at great risk for this injury.   I found the historical aspect of this study fascinating.

Just reading your quoted part, that's roughly one player per season.  This year definitely seems to have seen an uptick.

I wonder if it is really more common or just seems like it because of this year. I also wonder how much of it is the increased explosiveness vs. the push for kids to play a single sport instead of cross training (or some other factor). Hopefully there's some changes trainers/players can make to reduce the chances, but #1 has to be not playing through calf tightness. It seems like almost every time some decides to play through it they end up tearing their Achilles.

Better surgical outcomes (like with ACLs) would be great, too, but prevention would be ideal.

[Celtics4ever]

Tennis was the number 2 sport in that study.  Another burst sport which requires rapid changes in direction.

[celticsclay]

It isn't the games played that is the issue as these sorts of injuries really have only become more commonplace recently and the games played hasn't changed and in fact the schedule has gotten easier with less back to backs and more time off.

Agree with Mo 100%. They were playing 82 games and flying around in coach with 4 games in 5 nights in previous generations. If you go far enough back some of the players even had second jobs in the offseason. I don't get how all of a sudden 82 became the issue and not other things...

[Who]

Saw some good discourse on Twitter last night right after the Hali injury and it was focused on a few areas;  athleticism involved in the game these days, specialization, &  just general of years of overuse.

Jared Weiss
@JaredWeissNBA
?
14h
The main thing that training staffs have to constantly evaluate is how do you optimize players' bodies and handle their day-to-day maintenance in a league that has more sprinting and more high-torque acceleration than ever before. They're all aware of this, but it's clearly becoming a bigger risk factor as the pace has skyrocketed in recent years.

I don't think it is the overall pace of the game. The game is still slower today than it was in the past.

For example, the 1974 Celtics title winning team played at a pace of 110 possessions per game. They were only 5th out of 17 teams. This season, Memphis ranked top with 103.3 possessions per game.

The reason for extra stress is not the overall pace of the game but the style of play. More ball-handling. More attacks from 25 feet out from the basket. More off the dribble moves. All which rely on those high torque movements. Not just in terms of explosive speed but changing directions. All putting more pressure on those areas of the body than players in the old NBA had even though the old NBA played a faster pace than today's NBA.

You want to fancy ball-handling and ball-handling dominated offenses, you are going to get more of these injuries. They go hand in hand with one another.

[celticsclay]

Saw some good discourse on Twitter last night right after the Hali injury and it was focused on a few areas;  athleticism involved in the game these days, specialization, &  just general of years of overuse.

Jared Weiss
@JaredWeissNBA
?
14h
The main thing that training staffs have to constantly evaluate is how do you optimize players' bodies and handle their day-to-day maintenance in a league that has more sprinting and more high-torque acceleration than ever before. They're all aware of this, but it's clearly becoming a bigger risk factor as the pace has skyrocketed in recent years.

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
This starts with better managing athletes when they are kids.

We ask basketball, soccer, baseball (and more) players to play a million games, on top of near-daily practices, from the time they are six years old. And it's because the path to college bascially demands it.

Our sports system in the US is very broken in many, many ways.

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
We ask these kids to play 4-8 games per weekend in some sports. Then to train 4-5 times per week. And we specialize at a very young age now, because if you don't specialize, you fall behind the kids who do.

And it's because most are chasing/hoping for a college scholarship. The clubs know it. The coaches know it. There's just no let up.

I think the point about how many games kids and teens and young adults may play before they ever enter the league is a much more interesting thing to look at. That is something that dramatically has changed from the past. Generally in an sort of research to try and detect the cause you look at variables that have changed (workload in youth, differences in training, difference in nutrition, differences in shoes) and never something has remained constant (number of games).

I do certainly think the NBA is greedy but far and away the clearest example of that to me is stuff like the gambling partnerships or putting more and more ad breaks in etc. I don't really understand the mindset of how not shortening the season , which I can never remember a professional team doing in my life, makes them greedy. Maybe not super altruistic or something.

[Phantom255x]

Idk what they do, but make no mistake, I think players are gonna load manage even more in-season and if someone suffers any sort of calf/ankle injury, they will tread lightly to an even greater extent. I imagine it could be true even in the playoffs now. Durant, Hali, Tatum all had preexisting calf/ankle injuries that they were dealing with and then soon after they got the Achilles.

If you thought the regular season was already pretty boring, it'll get even more boring. Even that in-season tournament is gonna become obsolete.

[Moranis]

I forget who it was, but he was talking on Gottlieb's show today.  He says the achilles' problem is because of the drop back.  The hard forward, quick stop or side, and then drop back and shoot.  It is very common today, but the training hasn't adapted so they don't actually train for that like they do the slides and other moves.  They do it in practice some, but not the training with weights and what not.  And because they guys are so big, strong, and fast that that sudden move weakens the achilles.  Couple that with the lack of training, and that is why there is an uptick in that injury.  He also said you couldn't really count Haliburton's or Lillard's because they were both playing with lower leg injuries and that causes favoritism (which is also what happened to Durant), but most of the others he attributed to a lack of training.  I have no idea if that is accurate, but at least in theory makes sense to me.

[Redz]

I forget who it was, but he was talking on Gottlieb's show today.  He says the achilles' problem is because of the drop back.  The hard forward, quick stop or side, and then drop back and shoot.  It is very common today, but the training hasn't adapted so they don't actually train for that like they do the slides and other moves.  They do it in practice some, but not the training with weights and what not.  And because they guys are so big, strong, and fast that that sudden move weakens the achilles.  Couple that with the lack of training, and that is why there is an uptick in that injury.  He also said you couldn't really count Haliburton's or Lillard's because they were both playing with lower leg injuries and that causes favoritism (which is also what happened to Durant), but most of the others he attributed to a lack of training.  I have no idea if that is accurate, but at least in theory makes sense to me.

Definitely makes sense from a pure eyeball test perspective.  That move is so much more prominent now than it was pre-Harden.  It barely existed.  The Euro step might also fall under that category.