Offseason Thread

[Moranis]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

[Roy H.]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

If we were able to get Dunn and got under the 2nd apron completely, it'd be a good deal for us. But I agree that we should keep KP if it's just for spare part role players on a team that couldn't even make the playoffs.

[Moranis]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

so he can play in 50% of the regular season games, miss the majority of the playoff games, and then likely leave in free agency next summer.

[Roy H.]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

so he can play in 50% of the regular season games, miss the majority of the playoff games, and then likely leave in free agency next summer.

Yes.  I'd rather have a game-changer of a player with availability issues over mediocre end of rotation players.

[tonydelk]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

so he can play in 50% of the regular season games, miss the majority of the playoff games, and then likely leave in free agency next summer.

Yes.  I'd rather have a game-changer of a player with availability issues over mediocre end of rotation players.

I agree with this.  I know Tatum makes the C's a championship level team but the core of JB, KP and DWhite is nothing to sneeze at.  I'd rather have KP then any player Phoneix can offer.

[Vermont Green]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

so he can play in 50% of the regular season games, miss the majority of the playoff games, and then likely leave in free agency next summer.

Yes.  I'd rather have a game-changer of a player with availability issues over mediocre end of rotation players.

I agree with this.  I know Tatum makes the C's a championship level team but the core of JB, KP and DWhite is nothing to sneeze at.  I'd rather have KP then any player Phoneix can offer.

I get the concern with durability with Porzingis but if not for a mysterious virus this past season, they had managed his minutes well and he was structurally sound to play in the playoffs.  I think they can manage him minutes to increase the odds of having him for a playoff run.  No sense in just dumping Porzingis.

And as to his pending free agency, I think BOS will have every opportunity to sign him to a team friendly deal, probably even extend him before it even gets to that point.  With the new rules, very few teams have the ability to offer big contracts and those that do, won't be offering them to Porzingis.

[Moranis]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

so he can play in 50% of the regular season games, miss the majority of the playoff games, and then likely leave in free agency next summer.

Yes.  I'd rather have a game-changer of a player with availability issues over mediocre end of rotation players.

I agree with this.  I know Tatum makes the C's a championship level team but the core of JB, KP and DWhite is nothing to sneeze at.  I'd rather have KP then any player Phoneix can offer.

I get the concern with durability with Porzingis but if not for a mysterious virus this past season, they had managed his minutes well and he was structurally sound to play in the playoffs.  I think they can manage him minutes to increase the odds of having him for a playoff run.  No sense in just dumping Porzingis.

And as to his pending free agency, I think BOS will have every opportunity to sign him to a team friendly deal, probably even extend him before it even gets to that point.  With the new rules, very few teams have the ability to offer big contracts and those that do, won't be offering them to Porzingis.

he played in 42 games in the regular season.  He hasn't played more than 65 since his rookie year.  He has basically missed as many playoff games as he has played in his career.  This year Boston was 30-12 with him and 31-9 without him. He has BY FAR the worst +- and on/off differential of the top 9 players on the team. 

When he plays, he is an excellent scorer and rim protector, but the injuries are starting to take a toll on his shot blocking, conditioning, speed, etc.  The Zinger may very well be the oldest 29 year old in the sport given the wear on his body and guys his size rarely perform well in their 30's. 

I have no issue with people not liking Grayson Allen, but he is younger, healthy, and a much better shooter in addition to being a lot cheaper. My issue is people thinking Zinger is a core type piece. He simply isn't that guy anymore. Too many missed games.  Too many ailments.  Not worth his contract.

[Roy H.]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

so he can play in 50% of the regular season games, miss the majority of the playoff games, and then likely leave in free agency next summer.

Yes.  I'd rather have a game-changer of a player with availability issues over mediocre end of rotation players.

I agree with this.  I know Tatum makes the C's a championship level team but the core of JB, KP and DWhite is nothing to sneeze at.  I'd rather have KP then any player Phoneix can offer.

I get the concern with durability with Porzingis but if not for a mysterious virus this past season, they had managed his minutes well and he was structurally sound to play in the playoffs.  I think they can manage him minutes to increase the odds of having him for a playoff run.  No sense in just dumping Porzingis.

And as to his pending free agency, I think BOS will have every opportunity to sign him to a team friendly deal, probably even extend him before it even gets to that point.  With the new rules, very few teams have the ability to offer big contracts and those that do, won't be offering them to Porzingis.

he played in 42 games in the regular season.  He hasn't played more than 65 since his rookie year.  He has basically missed as many playoff games as he has played in his career.  This year Boston was 30-12 with him and 31-9 without him. He has BY FAR the worst +- and on/off differential of the top 9 players on the team. 

When he plays, he is an excellent scorer and rim protector, but the injuries are starting to take a toll on his shot blocking, conditioning, speed, etc.  The Zinger may very well be the oldest 29 year old in the sport given the wear on his body and guys his size rarely perform well in their 30's. 

I have no issue with people not liking Grayson Allen, but he is younger, healthy, and a much better shooter in addition to being a lot cheaper. My issue is people thinking Zinger is a core type piece. He simply isn't that guy anymore. Too many missed games.  Too many ailments.  Not worth his contract.

Oddly enough, you can say similar things about Durant.

[Moranis]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

so he can play in 50% of the regular season games, miss the majority of the playoff games, and then likely leave in free agency next summer.

Yes.  I'd rather have a game-changer of a player with availability issues over mediocre end of rotation players.

I agree with this.  I know Tatum makes the C's a championship level team but the core of JB, KP and DWhite is nothing to sneeze at.  I'd rather have KP then any player Phoneix can offer.

I get the concern with durability with Porzingis but if not for a mysterious virus this past season, they had managed his minutes well and he was structurally sound to play in the playoffs.  I think they can manage him minutes to increase the odds of having him for a playoff run.  No sense in just dumping Porzingis.

And as to his pending free agency, I think BOS will have every opportunity to sign him to a team friendly deal, probably even extend him before it even gets to that point.  With the new rules, very few teams have the ability to offer big contracts and those that do, won't be offering them to Porzingis.

he played in 42 games in the regular season.  He hasn't played more than 65 since his rookie year.  He has basically missed as many playoff games as he has played in his career.  This year Boston was 30-12 with him and 31-9 without him. He has BY FAR the worst +- and on/off differential of the top 9 players on the team. 

When he plays, he is an excellent scorer and rim protector, but the injuries are starting to take a toll on his shot blocking, conditioning, speed, etc.  The Zinger may very well be the oldest 29 year old in the sport given the wear on his body and guys his size rarely perform well in their 30's. 

I have no issue with people not liking Grayson Allen, but he is younger, healthy, and a much better shooter in addition to being a lot cheaper. My issue is people thinking Zinger is a core type piece. He simply isn't that guy anymore. Too many missed games.  Too many ailments.  Not worth his contract.

Oddly enough, you can say similar things about Durant.

I would and do and he is even older and more expensive.  He is better than the Zinger though and better by a pretty decent margin (better scorer, better shooter, better passer, better overall defender). And Durant, oddly enough, is as healthy as he has been since the GS title years playing in 62 games last year (after 75 the year before - so 2 straight years of decent health).

I don't get the desire of acquiring Durant for any significant value. The Spurs should absolutely hold at Vassell, Barnes, and 14.  Durant isn't worth more than that, especially since he isn't exactly a great off the court player.

[Vermont Green]

Suns have plenty of players I'd move Porzingis for. So if they delete enough below the 2nd apron to be able to aggregate, I'd do Allen and O'Neale for Zinger.  Might even throw in 32.  Other options as well, but that would make sense.  Suns would need to drop at least 14.6 million in the Durant trade to do that though.

I don't see a player on the Suns roster that I confidently believe could be part of our next championship team and that we could trade for. I guess I kinda' like both Micic' and Dunn, but they are both fairly unproven still.

Allen would be 31 and Oneal 34 by the time Tatum is fully healthy. I guess as trade pieces they could be fine, but I don't believe either player can be part of a championship rotation.

Still, it is nice to hear that Zinger is being looked at some.

They aren't, but if Boston is going to keep Brown, White, and Tatum those 2 guys would be excellent complimentary pieces over the next couple of seasons.  Getting Dunn with them would be nice and does work (though saves almost no salary for C's).  You could swap Micic for O'Neal and it works though he is cheaper so Phoenix would have to shave even more.

We'd be better off keeping KP.

so he can play in 50% of the regular season games, miss the majority of the playoff games, and then likely leave in free agency next summer.

Yes.  I'd rather have a game-changer of a player with availability issues over mediocre end of rotation players.

I agree with this.  I know Tatum makes the C's a championship level team but the core of JB, KP and DWhite is nothing to sneeze at.  I'd rather have KP then any player Phoneix can offer.

I get the concern with durability with Porzingis but if not for a mysterious virus this past season, they had managed his minutes well and he was structurally sound to play in the playoffs.  I think they can manage him minutes to increase the odds of having him for a playoff run.  No sense in just dumping Porzingis.

And as to his pending free agency, I think BOS will have every opportunity to sign him to a team friendly deal, probably even extend him before it even gets to that point.  With the new rules, very few teams have the ability to offer big contracts and those that do, won't be offering them to Porzingis.

he played in 42 games in the regular season.  He hasn't played more than 65 since his rookie year.  He has basically missed as many playoff games as he has played in his career.  This year Boston was 30-12 with him and 31-9 without him. He has BY FAR the worst +- and on/off differential of the top 9 players on the team. 

When he plays, he is an excellent scorer and rim protector, but the injuries are starting to take a toll on his shot blocking, conditioning, speed, etc.  The Zinger may very well be the oldest 29 year old in the sport given the wear on his body and guys his size rarely perform well in their 30's. 

I have no issue with people not liking Grayson Allen, but he is younger, healthy, and a much better shooter in addition to being a lot cheaper. My issue is people thinking Zinger is a core type piece. He simply isn't that guy anymore. Too many missed games.  Too many ailments.  Not worth his contract.

All true but in 2023-24, he was +7.3 per game (in 57 games) right there with Tatum and White in terms of +/-.  We are probably not going to have Horford back for a season with no Tatum.  If we trade Porzingis for nothing, who are our bigs?  Kornet and Queta?  Tillman?

Porzingis has his issues but so do most bigs these days.  Look at Anthony Davis for example.  I don't know where you are going to find a productive, durable big to replace Porzingis moving forward.  A lot will depend on how he plays over the summer but assuming that he is over this virus thing, I hope they extend him on a team friendly deal (in the $15M per year range).  Manage his minutes and take what you can get from him.  Still a lot more than any realistic alternative that I can come up with.

[Who]

It is rumoured that Toronto are willing to offer Quickley & RJ Barrett for Durant.

I don't see the appeal for Phoenix. Neither guy fits their squad well Bradley Beal and Devin Booker there.

G: Quickley
G: Beal
F: D Booker
F: RJ Barrett
C: Nick Richards

That team would get pummelled on defense. No quality at center. Small undersized players at both forward positions who are poor defenders & rebounders at that respective position. Beal not much of a defender either. Quickley defends fine but he is not a true PG. He is a scoring guard alongside two scoring SGs and another scoring SG/SF in RJ Barrett.

I don't see Durant as a great fit in Toronto either. They already have good starting forwards in Brandon Ingram and Scottie Barnes. Tough for Ingram or Durant to chase around SGs on defense. Barnes has bulked up a lot since entering the league. No legit PG. Jamal Shead is next man up. Poeltl at center. Not much on the bench either.

G: Jamal Shead
F: B Ingram, Ja'Kobe Walter, O Agbaji
F: K Durant, G Dick
F: S Barnes, C Boucher
C: Poeltl, Mogbo

I don't see how that team becomes a title contender. They would have to trade Scottie Barnes. They could get a very good guard in return for S Barnes. Rebalance their lineup. Move Durant to PF with Ingram at SF. That fit is much better.

But I do not know that they are willing to trade S Barnes. My guess is they try to make it work instead and it flatlines.

Shouldn't they be trying to get rid of Beal too rather than build around him?

They can't get rid of him. He has a no-trade clause. He earns too much money. They have to run down his contract first.

Beal is still their 2nd best player (post-Durant trade). He should be an important factor in deciding what type of players they want back.

[Who]

Spurs should hold firm with Barnes, Vassell, 14 for Durant.

Just thinking about that trade package a bit more for Phoenix.

G: Tyus Jones, Grayson Allen
G: B Beal, D Vassell
F: D Booker, Cody Martin, R Dunn
F: H Barnes, R O'Neale
C: N Richards, (free agent)

Why bother?

(1) A downgrade from Durant to H Barnes. Expiring contract. Leaves in the summer. Not a good PF either. H Barnes is too much of a finesse player. He is a shooting SF who plays on the perimeter. He lacks the physicality to rebound and defend the PF position.

(2) Devin Vassell plays the same position as both Devin Booker and Bradley Beal. None of the three play a 2nd position effectively. They are all one-position players. They are all scorers and lack the mentality to play PG. They are too small and deficient in terms of defense & rebounding to play SF effectively. Phoenix are committed to Devin Booker long term. There is no role here for Vassell. At best a 15mpg backup. Or give him longer minutes and play unbalanced ineffective lineups.

(3) The #14 pick. One mid-first rounder. That's it.


That is terrible value for Durant. Even at 37 years of age he has more value than that. He is a massive difference maker for a playoff team. Phoenix need to be getting back multiples picks or superior veterans back in return.

[Birdman]

Phoenix a lottery team if it does that KD- Spurs trade

[Moranis]

Spurs should hold firm with Barnes, Vassell, 14 for Durant.

Just thinking about that trade package a bit more for Phoenix.

G: Tyus Jones, Grayson Allen
G: B Beal, D Vassell
F: D Booker, Cody Martin, R Dunn
F: H Barnes, R O'Neale
C: N Richards, (free agent)

Why bother?

(1) A downgrade from Durant to H Barnes. Expiring contract. Leaves in the summer. Not a good PF either. H Barnes is too much of a finesse player. He is a shooting SF who plays on the perimeter. He lacks the physicality to rebound and defend the PF position.

(2) Devin Vassell plays the same position as both Devin Booker and Bradley Beal. None of the three play a 2nd position effectively. They are all one-position players. They are all scorers and lack the mentality to play PG. They are too small and deficient in terms of defense & rebounding to play SF effectively. Phoenix are committed to Devin Booker long term. There is no role here for Vassell. At best a 15mpg backup. Or give him longer minutes and play unbalanced ineffective lineups.

(3) The #14 pick. One mid-first rounder. That's it.


That is terrible value for Durant. Even at 37 years of age he has more value than that. He is a massive difference maker for a playoff team. Phoenix need to be getting back multiples picks or superior veterans back in return.

when was the last time Durant was a difference maker for any team he was on.  I mean it was GS, right?  This is not that Durant.  The Suns have gotten worse every year of Durant's tenure and are way far off from the Finals team they were before he got there.  The Nets were a train wreck.  Durant was a difference maker, but he isnt now.  He is still good, but he is a headache off the court, is old, and makes a ton of money.

As for the Spurs package, yeah it isn't a great fit for the Suns, but I do feel that is his value at this point i.e. a mid 1st, a relatively young starter level player, and a veteran rotation level player included for salary.