Need help understanding how we get the salaries down

[timpiker]

I've read all kinds of ways to get our salaries down to avoid or reduce the penalty taxes. i.e., Trade Player A for 4 cheap players whose salaries add up to Player A's.  I don't understand how you can do reduce $$$ if you trade away $30M but have to get nearly $30M in return.  Seems to me the rules force you to stay stuck in cap hell.

[slamtheking]

the primary option in that scenario is being able to reroute some of those lesser salaries to another team with cap space for a much lesser cost to get them to take those players.   

example - if Jrue is traded for 4 players making a little less than Jrue combined then say 2 of those players could be rerouted into another team's cap space (basically the Nets) for maybe a high second round pick resulting in the C's saving that much money next year.  Also, it may be possible to send another player to another team that has a TPE available (from what I've read, this is possible) and maybe not have to include a pick to do so (hopefully get a pick back instead) which will drop the C's cost even further.   That scenario's not a great return for Jrue in terms of adding talent but drops the C's salary quite a bit -- possibly under the second apron depending on the salary of the player they end up with.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

3 Primary Ways

1. If the team you are trading to (the Nets) are under the salary cap, the Nets are not required to send back equal salary. They can absorb that contract if they have room under the salary cap. So if they are 50m below the salary cap, they can easily absorb Jrue's contract without being required to send back equal salary.

As an aside, when this happens, it creates a trade exception equal to the salary absorbed. So in the above example, the Celtics would receive a trade exception equal to Jrue's contract size next year.

That leads to the second primary way...

2. Players can be absorbed into those trade exceptions. Most teams have at least a few small trade exceptions, but a few have pretty big ones as well. If a team has a trade exception big enough, they can completely absorb a player's contract without needing to send back equal salaries.

Unfortunately, I don't believe there are any big enough out there for Zinger, White or Holliday's contracts. There are some big enough for Hauser's contract though.

3. The third and least effective way is that, depending on the team, they may not need to send back the full amount of salary to match. A 2nd apron team like the Celtics do, but 1st apron teams and non-tax teams can receive up to 125% of the salaries they are sending out. That's what would allow us to trade for Vassell at 26m for Jrue's contract at 32m. That would allow us to cut about 6m. Again, not a lot, but could certainly help.

[Roy H.]

the primary option in that scenario is being able to reroute some of those lesser salaries to another team with cap space for a much lesser cost to get them to take those players.   

example - if Jrue is traded for 4 players making a little less than Jrue combined then say 2 of those players could be rerouted into another team's cap space (basically the Nets) for maybe a high second round pick resulting in the C's saving that much money next year.  Also, it may be possible to send another player to another team that has a TPE available (from what I've read, this is possible) and maybe not have to include a pick to do so (hopefully get a pick back instead) which will drop the C's cost even further.   That scenario's not a great return for Jrue in terms of adding talent but drops the C's salary quite a bit -- possibly under the second apron depending on the salary of the player they end up with.

In addition we can trade players into the MLE of teams that have it available.  That's why Hauser is mentioned so frequently; his salary fits the MLE.

And OP, remember that a team can always send out more than it brings in; it's not required to "match" from both sides.

[ozgod]

I've read all kinds of ways to get our salaries down to avoid or reduce the penalty taxes. i.e., Trade Player A for 4 cheap players whose salaries add up to Player A's.  I don't understand how you can do reduce $$$ if you trade away $30M but have to get nearly $30M in return.  Seems to me the rules force you to stay stuck in cap hell.

You can trade players into cap space that another team has (known as a salary dump). If they are under the salary cap they don't have to match salaries. They can take in any salary up to the cap without sending out any in return. If they go over the cap, then they have to send out the amount that they are over the cap to "match".  If the team is over the salary cap but below the first apron, they can: a) Use one or more outgoing salaries up to $7,500,000 to take back up to 200% of that salary (plus $250K) via matching; b) Use one or more outgoing salaries between $7,500,001 and $29,000,000 to take back up to that salary plus $7.5MM via matching; c) Use one or more outgoing salaries worth above $29,000,000 to take back up to 125% of that salary (plus $250K) via matching.

There are a few other exceptions and exclusions (trading into TPEs or exceptions, etc) but that's the general idea if you are below the first apron, you have more flexibility in terms of not having to match salaries. It's when you are above the first apron that you have to match salaries 100%. And if you are above the 2nd apron, you can't aggregate salaries in trade.

[CelticsWhat35]

I?ve read that because they?re past the 2nd apron, they can?t combine players in trades.  Is that negated if it?s a 3-team trade?

[jambr380]

I?ve read that because they?re past the 2nd apron, they can?t combine players in trades.  Is that negated if it?s a 3-team trade?

You can take back multiple smaller salaries for one larger salary. You can't combine salaries of two players and take back one larger salary no matter how many teams are involved.

The only exception is if the result of the trade takes you under the 2nd apron.

[timpiker]

Thanks to all for the explanations.  The CBA and it's rules are definitely a CF.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I?ve read that because they?re past the 2nd apron, they can?t combine players in trades.  Is that negated if it?s a 3-team trade?

No. However, if the result of the trade gets you below the 2nd apron, then you can combine players.

[BringToughnessBack]

So, is this why if we did get rid of Brown, the Spurs are mentioned as a top landing spot because they wont have to send us back full matching salaries due to them being under the cap and first threshold? I too, was trying to figure out how on earth we can drop our salary by a ton before the summer of 2026.

Brown and Wemby and Fox healthy would be a very competitive top tier team.

[Vermont Green]

Taking the Spurs specifically, they are a little under the salary cap (the first of multiple thresholds that impact ability to make trades) based on active contracts but over based on cap holds.  Cap holds can be renounced so it is hard to say exactly where any team is going to end up.  But even based on active contracts, the Spurs are only about $11M under the cap so based on just this, the most they could take back without sending out salary would be $11M, so they could not just "absorb" Holiday or Porzingis.

I am not seeing this for the Spurs on the Spotrac page, but if you are above the salary cap, you can still take in a player/contract with a MLE or TPE.  These are exemptions that allow you to go over the cap but you can't combine these, I don't think.  But I am pretty sure that SAS does not have a $30M TPE in any case.

So if you don't have cap space or an exemption to match the incoming salary, then you have to send out at least 80% of what you take in (or looked at the other way, you can only take in 125% of what you send out).  So in the case of Holiday, the Spurs would need to send out at least $24M'ish in order to take in Holiday at about $30M (using round numbers).

Now, if that $24M of outgoing salary is broken up into 3 players each at about $8M, then one or more of these smaller contracts could be moved to a 3rd team.  All 3 contracts don't need to go to BOS.  There is a lot more flexibility to find a team to take on $8M via cap space or an exemption than to try and find one that can take a $30M contract.  So that is why trading Holiday for 3 contracts at $8M each (for example) is just one step of several (or one part of a multi team trade) that may be needed to achieve the cost cutting objectives.

[Vermont Green]

So, is this why if we did get rid of Brown, the Spurs are mentioned as a top landing spot because they wont have to send us back full matching salaries due to them being under the cap and first threshold? I too, was trying to figure out how on earth we can drop our salary by a ton before the summer of 2026.

Brown and Wemby and Fox healthy would be a very competitive top tier team.

As explained above in greater detail, SAS would have to send out about $42M in salary in order to take in Brown at $53M.  That $42M could be more than 1 player and not all players would need to go to BOS, but they would have to send out at least that much.

[jambr380]

So, is this why if we did get rid of Brown, the Spurs are mentioned as a top landing spot because they wont have to send us back full matching salaries due to them being under the cap and first threshold? I too, was trying to figure out how on earth we can drop our salary by a ton before the summer of 2026.

Brown and Wemby and Fox healthy would be a very competitive top tier team.

As explained above in greater detail, SAS would have to send out about $42M in salary in order to take in Brown at $53M.  That $42M could be more than 1 player and not all players would need to go to BOS, but they would have to send out at least that much.

Vassell at $27M, #2 at $12.4M, and Champagnie at $3M gets you there. Champagnie can easily be re-routed, which would bring you down to $39.4M and you could then decide if you want to trade Vassell or pay him around that amount (weirdly drops to $24.6M in 27-28) for the next 4 years.

Certainly not sitting here advocating for a JB deal, just saying that it's pretty easy to get a deal done and save around $14M in salary. You do a Jrue deal where you keep Gafford, but trade off other pieces, and then send out Hauser, and then suddenly you're under the tax.

Another underrated way to cut salary during the season is to send out a couple of vet min contracts at the deadline and then re-sign new guys at a prorated amount. You do that twice and you can easily save another $4M or so if the tax is close.

[Vermont Green]

This only works if DAL is under the 2nd apron after the transaction. I did not check where they are relative to the 2nd apron.