Poll Idea. Holiday for Gafford and PJ washing

[KG Living Legend]

Pj Washington,  Gafford and Powell for filler for Jrue

[tazzmaniac]

I certainly wouldn't want to make that trade but if we could get a 1st I might.  There  are no financial savings from the trade for this season but all 3 players are on 1yr contracts.  Is the point to take the financial hit this season and then let all 3 players plus KP leave after next season to get under the tax?  Without the 1st, I'd rather make a Jrue for Tobias Harris (1yr/25M) deal to help get under the 2nd apron this upcoming season and then try to flip Harris for a smaller 1yr contract at the trade deadline. 

[Birdman]

Dallas would say no

[jambr380]

It's a trade you have to do, but not sure DAL trades both of them in a trade for Jrue. Both are expiring at just above $14M, so at the very least you've cut your one big multi-year contract into two more manageable expiring contracts.

I also have to believe there would be a suitors for both guys. But if you can trade one and not the other, and it is still imperative to cur salary, then there is always the waive and stretch option, leaving you with only $4-5M of dead money over the next 3 years.

More likely you are looking at a Gafford, Martin, filler possibility. Martin is signed for an extra year, but at less than $10M/yr. That is super manageable.

Another option is taking Klay and Martin and requiring a pick, but then you are left having to find somewhere to send Klay. Like Martin, he is signed for two more years, but at a heftier $17M/yr

[Who]

Dallas would say no

Yeah, I wonder about that too.

It feels a high price for Jrue. A 35 year combo guard. He is handsomely paid at $30-35mil per year for next 3 years. He is coming off his worst season. He averaged only 11-4-4 on bad shooting percentages. He wasn't able to step up and do more offensively when Tatum got hurt. His creation offensively looks to have cratered. He is a good glue guy but I am not sure he is much more than that anymore.

PJ Washington is coming off an excellent 18 months when he proved himself to be a quality starting player. Someone of comparable value to Jrue by himself. Only 8-10 years younger. Plays a position that is harder to fill (big forward). He is cheaper.

Then you have Gafford who is a borderline starting center. Lots of teams would be delighted to have him. One of the top backup centers in the league to an adequate starter. Athletic. Physical. Tough. Defender & rebounder. Rim roller.

----------------------------

* Is PJ Washington alone more valuable than Jrue at this point?
* Does PJ Washington individually outperform Jrue?
* Does PJ's cheaper contract make him more valuable than Jrue?

PJ averaged 14.7ppg and 7.8rpg in 32.2mpg. Higher scoring volume. Better rebounding. He played above average defense. Jrue had a drop-off defensively. I am not sure how much of a gap there is defensively. Or how much that gap will be in future years as Jrue continues to slow down. PJ made 38% of his threes compared to 35% for Jrue. Like Jrue, not the best shooter / most efficient offensive player.

Would you even trade PJ Washington straight up for Jrue at this point if their contracts were comparable given the age disparity?

One good thing in our favour is Dallas is loaded with talent at forward. AD and Flagg as starters. Naji Marshall as a high level reserve who could replace PJ. So they could trade PJ to better balance their backcourt.

Getting Gafford on top of that would be a tough ask. Maybe the above post talking about Caleb Martin might be a better lower value target. Or maybe Boston has to pony up a 1st round pick or two to get Gafford involved. Possibly even just to get PJ Washington alone given how much younger he is.

[Larry for 3]

Dallas would say no

Yeah, I wonder about that too.

It feels a high price for Jrue. A 35 year combo guard. He is handsomely paid at $30-35mil per year for next 3 years. He is coming off his worst season. He averaged only 11-4-4 on bad shooting percentages. He wasn't able to step up and do more offensively when Tatum got hurt. His creation offensively looks to have cratered. He is a good glue guy but I am not sure he is much more than that anymore.

PJ Washington is coming off an excellent 18 months when he proved himself to be a quality starting player. Someone of comparable value to Jrue by himself. Only 8-10 years younger. Plays a position that is harder to fill (big forward). He is cheaper.

Then you have Gafford who is a borderline starting center. Lots of teams would be delighted to have him. One of the top backup centers in the league to an adequate starter. Athletic. Physical. Tough. Defender & rebounder. Rim roller.

----------------------------

* Is PJ Washington alone more valuable than Jrue at this point?
* Does PJ Washington individually outperform Jrue?
* Does PJ's cheaper contract make him more valuable than Jrue?

PJ averaged 14.7ppg and 7.8rpg in 32.2mpg. Higher scoring volume. Better rebounding. He played above average defense. Jrue had a drop-off defensively. I am not sure how much of a gap there is defensively. Or how much that gap will be in future years as Jrue continues to slow down. PJ made 38% of his threes compared to 35% for Jrue.

Would you even trade PJ Washington straight up for Jrue at this point if their contracts were comparable given the age disparity?

One good thing in our favour is Dallas is loaded with talent at forward. AD and Flagg as starters. Naji Marshall as a high level reserve who could replace PJ. So they could trade PJ to better balance their backcourt.

Getting Gafford on top of that would be a tough ask. Maybe the above post talking about Caleb Martin might be a better lower value target. Or maybe Boston has to pony up a 1st round pick or two to get Gafford involved. Possibly even just to get PJ Washington alone given how much younger he is.

Except Gafford and Washington are in the last year of their contracts. Considering Dallas?s log jam- those 2 aren?t getting re signed ? and the free agent class is weak? so it makes sense when you take Nico?s words about defense first to make this deal-  now you might have to throw in this years first but who cares - Celtics have pick 32 as well which a 2nd rounder- much less $$$. This works for both teams.

[wdleehi]

Celtics only make this trade because of money, not talent.   

[Who]

Dallas would say no

Yeah, I wonder about that too.

It feels a high price for Jrue. A 35 year combo guard. He is handsomely paid at $30-35mil per year for next 3 years. He is coming off his worst season. He averaged only 11-4-4 on bad shooting percentages. He wasn't able to step up and do more offensively when Tatum got hurt. His creation offensively looks to have cratered. He is a good glue guy but I am not sure he is much more than that anymore.

PJ Washington is coming off an excellent 18 months when he proved himself to be a quality starting player. Someone of comparable value to Jrue by himself. Only 8-10 years younger. Plays a position that is harder to fill (big forward). He is cheaper.

Then you have Gafford who is a borderline starting center. Lots of teams would be delighted to have him. One of the top backup centers in the league to an adequate starter. Athletic. Physical. Tough. Defender & rebounder. Rim roller.

----------------------------

* Is PJ Washington alone more valuable than Jrue at this point?
* Does PJ Washington individually outperform Jrue?
* Does PJ's cheaper contract make him more valuable than Jrue?

PJ averaged 14.7ppg and 7.8rpg in 32.2mpg. Higher scoring volume. Better rebounding. He played above average defense. Jrue had a drop-off defensively. I am not sure how much of a gap there is defensively. Or how much that gap will be in future years as Jrue continues to slow down. PJ made 38% of his threes compared to 35% for Jrue.

Would you even trade PJ Washington straight up for Jrue at this point if their contracts were comparable given the age disparity?

One good thing in our favour is Dallas is loaded with talent at forward. AD and Flagg as starters. Naji Marshall as a high level reserve who could replace PJ. So they could trade PJ to better balance their backcourt.

Getting Gafford on top of that would be a tough ask. Maybe the above post talking about Caleb Martin might be a better lower value target. Or maybe Boston has to pony up a 1st round pick or two to get Gafford involved. Possibly even just to get PJ Washington alone given how much younger he is.

Except Gafford and Washington are in the last year of their contracts. Considering Dallas?s log jam- those 2 aren?t getting re signed ? and the free agent class is weak? so it makes sense when you take Nico?s words about defense first to make this deal-  now you might have to throw in this years first but who cares - Celtics have pick 32 as well which a 2nd rounder- much less $$$. This works for both teams.

Good point.

I was wondering how much PJ Washington might get paid on his next contract. It could be anywhere from $25-30mil per year I reckon. At which point he is almost as expensive as Jrue.

Gafford the may have a better chance of keeping. He is probably only MLE money. Maybe let PJ Washington go. Replace him with Naji Marshall. Re-sign Gafford.

[Larry for 3]

Dallas would say no

Yeah, I wonder about that too.

It feels a high price for Jrue. A 35 year combo guard. He is handsomely paid at $30-35mil per year for next 3 years. He is coming off his worst season. He averaged only 11-4-4 on bad shooting percentages. He wasn't able to step up and do more offensively when Tatum got hurt. His creation offensively looks to have cratered. He is a good glue guy but I am not sure he is much more than that anymore.

PJ Washington is coming off an excellent 18 months when he proved himself to be a quality starting player. Someone of comparable value to Jrue by himself. Only 8-10 years younger. Plays a position that is harder to fill (big forward). He is cheaper.

Then you have Gafford who is a borderline starting center. Lots of teams would be delighted to have him. One of the top backup centers in the league to an adequate starter. Athletic. Physical. Tough. Defender & rebounder. Rim roller.

----------------------------

* Is PJ Washington alone more valuable than Jrue at this point?
* Does PJ Washington individually outperform Jrue?
* Does PJ's cheaper contract make him more valuable than Jrue?

PJ averaged 14.7ppg and 7.8rpg in 32.2mpg. Higher scoring volume. Better rebounding. He played above average defense. Jrue had a drop-off defensively. I am not sure how much of a gap there is defensively. Or how much that gap will be in future years as Jrue continues to slow down. PJ made 38% of his threes compared to 35% for Jrue.

Would you even trade PJ Washington straight up for Jrue at this point if their contracts were comparable given the age disparity?

One good thing in our favour is Dallas is loaded with talent at forward. AD and Flagg as starters. Naji Marshall as a high level reserve who could replace PJ. So they could trade PJ to better balance their backcourt.

Getting Gafford on top of that would be a tough ask. Maybe the above post talking about Caleb Martin might be a better lower value target. Or maybe Boston has to pony up a 1st round pick or two to get Gafford involved. Possibly even just to get PJ Washington alone given how much younger he is.

Except Gafford and Washington are in the last year of their contracts. Considering Dallas?s log jam- those 2 aren?t getting re signed ? and the free agent class is weak? so it makes sense when you take Nico?s words about defense first to make this deal-  now you might have to throw in this years first but who cares - Celtics have pick 32 as well which a 2nd rounder- much less $$$. This works for both teams.

Good point.

I was wondering how much PJ Washington might get paid on his next contract. It could be anywhere from $25-30mil per year I reckon. At which point he is almost as expensive as Jrue.

Gafford the may have a better chance of keeping. He is probably only MLE money. Maybe let PJ Washington go. Replace him with Naji Marshall. Re-sign Gafford.

And also this. I think Holiday might fall off the cliff sooner rather than later. He wasn?t that good in the playoffs and if we can move him now that decline will be on someone else. Nico Harrison is just the guy to pawn him off too. He?s proven to be not the smartest guy. I love jru but it?s time to cut bait. Better one year early than one year late. And the money of course.

[jambr380]

Dallas would say no

Yeah, I wonder about that too.

It feels a high price for Jrue. A 35 year combo guard. He is handsomely paid at $30-35mil per year for next 3 years. He is coming off his worst season. He averaged only 11-4-4 on bad shooting percentages. He wasn't able to step up and do more offensively when Tatum got hurt. His creation offensively looks to have cratered. He is a good glue guy but I am not sure he is much more than that anymore.

PJ Washington is coming off an excellent 18 months when he proved himself to be a quality starting player. Someone of comparable value to Jrue by himself. Only 8-10 years younger. Plays a position that is harder to fill (big forward). He is cheaper.

Then you have Gafford who is a borderline starting center. Lots of teams would be delighted to have him. One of the top backup centers in the league to an adequate starter. Athletic. Physical. Tough. Defender & rebounder. Rim roller.

----------------------------

* Is PJ Washington alone more valuable than Jrue at this point?
* Does PJ Washington individually outperform Jrue?
* Does PJ's cheaper contract make him more valuable than Jrue?

PJ averaged 14.7ppg and 7.8rpg in 32.2mpg. Higher scoring volume. Better rebounding. He played above average defense. Jrue had a drop-off defensively. I am not sure how much of a gap there is defensively. Or how much that gap will be in future years as Jrue continues to slow down. PJ made 38% of his threes compared to 35% for Jrue.

Would you even trade PJ Washington straight up for Jrue at this point if their contracts were comparable given the age disparity?

One good thing in our favour is Dallas is loaded with talent at forward. AD and Flagg as starters. Naji Marshall as a high level reserve who could replace PJ. So they could trade PJ to better balance their backcourt.

Getting Gafford on top of that would be a tough ask. Maybe the above post talking about Caleb Martin might be a better lower value target. Or maybe Boston has to pony up a 1st round pick or two to get Gafford involved. Possibly even just to get PJ Washington alone given how much younger he is.

Except Gafford and Washington are in the last year of their contracts. Considering Dallas?s log jam- those 2 aren?t getting re signed ? and the free agent class is weak? so it makes sense when you take Nico?s words about defense first to make this deal-  now you might have to throw in this years first but who cares - Celtics have pick 32 as well which a 2nd rounder- much less $$$. This works for both teams.

Good point.

I was wondering how much PJ Washington might get paid on his next contract. It could be anywhere from $25-30mil per year I reckon. At which point he is almost as expensive as Jrue.

Gafford the may have a better chance of keeping. He is probably only MLE money. Maybe let PJ Washington go. Replace him with Naji Marshall. Re-sign Gafford.

And also this. I think Holiday might fall off the cliff sooner rather than later. He wasn?t that good in the playoffs and if we can move him now that decline will be on someone else. Nico Harrison is just the guy to pawn him off too. He?s proven to be not the smartest guy. I love jru but it?s time to cut bait. Better one year early than one year late. And the money of course.

I think Jrue's 'cliff' is overrated in a lot of the responses I've seen here and other sites. He was likely holding back for a lot of the year, but when he upped the effort, he still passed the eye test and looked like the Jrue we all know and love

Using the playoffs as an example seems disingenuous. Do people just forget that he missed games 3, 4, and 5 of the Magic series because of a hamstring strain? Of course he wasn't going to be 100% for the Knicks series. Even though the team seemingly did everything right to prepare for the playoffs, the injuries all came in at the wrong time and were capped off by Tatum's devastating achilles rupture.

[Larry for 3]

Dallas would say no

Yeah, I wonder about that too.

It feels a high price for Jrue. A 35 year combo guard. He is handsomely paid at $30-35mil per year for next 3 years. He is coming off his worst season. He averaged only 11-4-4 on bad shooting percentages. He wasn't able to step up and do more offensively when Tatum got hurt. His creation offensively looks to have cratered. He is a good glue guy but I am not sure he is much more than that anymore.

PJ Washington is coming off an excellent 18 months when he proved himself to be a quality starting player. Someone of comparable value to Jrue by himself. Only 8-10 years younger. Plays a position that is harder to fill (big forward). He is cheaper.

Then you have Gafford who is a borderline starting center. Lots of teams would be delighted to have him. One of the top backup centers in the league to an adequate starter. Athletic. Physical. Tough. Defender & rebounder. Rim roller.

----------------------------

* Is PJ Washington alone more valuable than Jrue at this point?
* Does PJ Washington individually outperform Jrue?
* Does PJ's cheaper contract make him more valuable than Jrue?

PJ averaged 14.7ppg and 7.8rpg in 32.2mpg. Higher scoring volume. Better rebounding. He played above average defense. Jrue had a drop-off defensively. I am not sure how much of a gap there is defensively. Or how much that gap will be in future years as Jrue continues to slow down. PJ made 38% of his threes compared to 35% for Jrue.

Would you even trade PJ Washington straight up for Jrue at this point if their contracts were comparable given the age disparity?

One good thing in our favour is Dallas is loaded with talent at forward. AD and Flagg as starters. Naji Marshall as a high level reserve who could replace PJ. So they could trade PJ to better balance their backcourt.

Getting Gafford on top of that would be a tough ask. Maybe the above post talking about Caleb Martin might be a better lower value target. Or maybe Boston has to pony up a 1st round pick or two to get Gafford involved. Possibly even just to get PJ Washington alone given how much younger he is.

Except Gafford and Washington are in the last year of their contracts. Considering Dallas?s log jam- those 2 aren?t getting re signed ? and the free agent class is weak? so it makes sense when you take Nico?s words about defense first to make this deal-  now you might have to throw in this years first but who cares - Celtics have pick 32 as well which a 2nd rounder- much less $$$. This works for both teams.

Good point.

I was wondering how much PJ Washington might get paid on his next contract. It could be anywhere from $25-30mil per year I reckon. At which point he is almost as expensive as Jrue.

Gafford the may have a better chance of keeping. He is probably only MLE money. Maybe let PJ Washington go. Replace him with Naji Marshall. Re-sign Gafford.

And also this. I think Holiday might fall off the cliff sooner rather than later. He wasn?t that good in the playoffs and if we can move him now that decline will be on someone else. Nico Harrison is just the guy to pawn him off too. He?s proven to be not the smartest guy. I love jru but it?s time to cut bait. Better one year early than one year late. And the money of course.

I think Jrue's 'cliff' is overrated in a lot of the responses I've seen here and other sites. He was likely holding back for a lot of the year, but when he upped the effort, he still passed the eye test and looked like the Jrue we all know and love

Using the playoffs as an example seems disingenuous. Do people just forget that he missed games 3, 4, and 5 of the Magic series because of a hamstring strain? Of course he wasn't going to be 100% for the Knicks series. Even though the team seemingly did everything right to prepare for the playoffs, the injuries all came in at the wrong time and were capped off by Tatum's devastating achilles rupture.

My counter is older guys pushing 35 are more prone get hurt with all the high leverage minutes being played in the playoffs -  see Curry.  And DH is big part of the team. Lot of miles on those tires, for the role he plays-  if he was bit player I?d agree but you can you count on him? And a reduced holiday for 35 million doesn?t work any longer with this teams structure in my opinion.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I'm a fan of Washington. If we could send Gafford to a third team and get a pick out of the deal, it'd be a ideal trade.

[wdleehi]

I'm a fan of Washington. If we could send Gafford to a third team and get a pick out of the deal, it'd be a ideal trade.

That is what I think about most of these trades, find a team to take half the contracts.   

[Phantom255x]

Dallas would say no to giving up both Washington + Gafford just for Jrue, but I do like the idea of either Washington or Gafford in a Jrue trade. A 3rd team would likely have to be involved to facilitate. I do think it makes sense for Dallas, they have a crowded frontcourt and Kyrie is also gonna miss probably the first 3-4 months of the season so it'd be ideal for them to have a defensive-minded guard as well to balance the roster better.

[Roy H.]

Not a bad basketball trade if Dallas would do it, but ownership is going to care more about financial savings than rotation players.