Jrue the odd man out?

[Goldstar88]

If the C?s have to move a big piece to get under the apron, I think it has to be Jrue. Considering his age and contract, I feel like it makes more sense moving him over KP or White. Boston can then start Sam and move JB to SG. Let Pritchard run the second unit.

Starters: White, Brown, Hauser, Tatum, Porzingis
Bench: Pritchard, Horford, Kornet, Queta, FA Signings

With decent FA signings to bolster the bench, that group should still be good enough to contend.

[otherdave]

I agree, I think True will be the first to go.

A lot will depend on Bill "Banners" Chisolm's appetite for paying lux tax.

Al and Luke are UFAs this summer, so if you bring back Al for 8 million and Luke for 7 million (just making those numbers up), you may need to trim more - Sam?  and hope Baylor can provide something close to Sam.

I am assuming a team can still sign their own UFAs, even if the team is over apron 1 or apron 2.  Can someone confirm that?

It will be an interesting summer.....

[slightly biased bias fan]

If the C?s have to move a big piece to get under the apron, I think it has to be Jrue. Considering his age and contract, I feel like it makes more sense moving him over KP or White. Start Sam and move JB to SG. Let Pritchard run the second unit.

Starters: White, Brown, Hauser, Tatum, Porzingis
Bench: Pritchard, Horford, Kornet, Queta, FA Signings

With decent FA signings to bolster the bench, that group should still be good enough to contend.

I think it all depends on how the team performs in the upcoming playoffs & how certain players health holds up.

If the Celtics dominate again and win another championship, no matter what the price, how could you justify breaking up a potential three peat core because it was too expensive?

Hypothetically, if the team needed to massively reduce salary, how do you achieve that when no team has significant cap space?

[keevsnick]

If the C?s have to move a big piece to get under the apron, I think it has to be Jrue. Considering his age and contract, I feel like it makes more sense moving him over KP or White. Start Sam and move JB to SG. Let Pritchard run the second unit.

Starters: White, Brown, Hauser, Tatum, Porzingis
Bench: Pritchard, Horford, Kornet, Queta, FA Signings

With decent FA signings to bolster the bench, that group should still be good enough to contend.

I think it all depends on how the team performs in the upcoming playoffs & how certain players health holds up.

If the Celtics dominate again and win another championship, no matter what the price, how could you justify breaking up a potential three peat core because it was too expensive?

Hypothetically, if the team needed to massively reduce salary, how do you achieve that when no team has significant cap space?

There are ways to do it, it just might not be immediate.

For example, the C's could trade Jrue + assets to Washington for Marcus Smart. Marcus makes 21 million next year, so the c's don't get off all of Jrue's contract but save 10 million in salary with is like 90 million in salary+tax. Marcus then expires after next season and now you're free of 72 million left on the last two years of Jrue's deal.

Its basically a step down procedure where you get only some savings in year 1 but save a lot more down the line by swapping Jrue's three years for an expiring.

This format is one reason why the trade may be more likely this off season, its difficult to completely dump 30 million in completely all at once, so you might need to make the trade a year earlier than you'd want to.

[Who]

There was some talk about Colin Sexton's game at the end of the game thread after the Utah Jazz game. I was thinking after those posts, that I would like Sexton as a replacement for Jrue.

Not the same type of player. Jrue strong non-scoring contributions with low volume scoring. Sexton with high volume scoring and middling non-scoring contributions. A different type of guard ... but I think he would work well on the Celtics playing in the same backcourt as D White and alongside Tatum & Jaylen.

So in this discussion with Jrue being mentioned as the possible odd-man out, if Sexton were to replace Jrue it would be because Porzingis is the odd man out. The only reason for Porzingis to be the odd man out is injuries / injury risk. Ideally he would be healthy and the guy you keep. However, if you move on from him ...

Then the idea with Sexton as a Jrue replacement is age related. Move on from an older guard to a younger guard in order to extend the title window. The four man core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White, Sexton would have more opportunities to win titles together. A good 4-6 year window. Add role player bigs to replace Porzingis / Horford. I was thinking that Sexton may become available at a relatively low price at some point (given Utah's terrible team). So Jrue and multiple future 1sts for Sexton.

I mentioned in the game thread that I like the idea of Sexton as a 3rd/4th option on a top team. That is what he would be here in Boston. He'd be the 3rd scorer behind the Jays and 4th best overall player behind the Jays & D White. I like how D White and Sexton could work together. Different types of players that could complement each other well.

[slightly biased bias fan]

The only realistic cap relief option I could see would be trading Jrue Holiday to the Pistons for Isaiah Stewart. This would based on the notion that Horford retires at seasons end.

The Celtics would save 17.4 million with the trade and obviously 9.5 million from Horford retiring, for a total of 26.9 million in salary reduction.

[Goldstar88]

There was some talk about Colin Sexton's game at the end of the game thread after the Utah Jazz game. I was thinking after those posts, that I would like Sexton as a replacement for Jrue.

Not the same type of player. Jrue strong non-scoring contributions with low volume scoring. Sexton with high volume scoring and middling non-scoring contributions. A different type of guard ... but I think he would work well on the Celtics playing in the same backcourt as D White and alongside Tatum & Jaylen.

So in this discussion with Jrue being mentioned as the possible odd-man out, if Sexton were to replace Jrue it would be because Porzingis is the odd man out. The only reason for Porzingis to be the odd man out is injuries / injury risk. Ideally he would be healthy and the guy you keep. However, if you move on from him ...

Then the idea with Sexton as a Jrue replacement is age related. Move on from an older guard to a younger guard in order to extend the title window. The four man core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White, Sexton would have more opportunities to win titles together. A good 4-6 year window. Add role player bigs to replace Porzingis / Horford. I was thinking that Sexton may become available at a relatively low price at some point (given Utah's terrible team). So Jrue and multiple future 1sts for Sexton.

I mentioned in the game thread that I like the idea of Sexton as a 3rd/4th option on a top team. That is what he would be here in Boston. He'd be the 3rd scorer behind the Jays and 4th best overall player behind the Jays & D White. I like how D White and Sexton could work together. Different types of players that could complement each other well.

Replacing Jrue, Porzingis, and Horford with Collin Sexton and role players is not going to win Boston any Championships. That would be a disaster. Sexton is like a prime Terry Rozier level player. Hard pass on that. Porzingis may be injury prone, but he?s still only 29. If Jrue is gone, they definitely need KP to contend. He?s the 3rd best player on the team. Lately, he?s been the 2nd best player for the Celtics.

[Vermont Green]

I had waded into this discussion in the Celtics Sell thread.  I don't think they are going to do anything involving a starter this off season.  Hopefully this is not just be wishful thinking.  In broad terms, Tatum goes up about $20M, Hauser goes up $8M, Kornet is a UFA at $2M and will go up, and we have to do something with Horford who is at about $10M now.  I am thinking they just accept Tatum's increase, they hope to get Horford down some, Kornet is going to get a raise, and then maybe they trade Hauser to save money.  The 2nd apron threshold is projected to go up from about $189M to about $208M so that provides some headroom.  I am not sure that the tax threshold is going up based on what I am able to find.  Someone may be able to confirm this.

Even though Hauser is a better overall player than Kornet, Kornet may be more important to the team.  We know that Porzingis and Horford will miss time.  Plus transactionally, if we don't sign Kornet, we get nothing in return.  We can trade Hauser.  Maybe if you think Queta can step up, you live with losing Kornet, but I am not there.  If it was me, I would trade Hauser to pay Kornet and Horford.  Now if the Celtics decide to just pay everyone (reduce Horford, increase Kornet), great, but I suspect they will have to do something this off season.  And Hauser may return decent value, maybe a young big that can project to replace Horford as the first big off the bench.  Then you live with Craig and Scheierman taking Hauser's minutes or something like that.

In the 2026 off season, they will have to do something with Porzingis and by that time, it is very likely they will need to replace Horford with a rotation caliber big.  Porzingis only plays 60-65 games per season, at best, that is pretty well established.  And there is always the looming risk of a serious injury, so we may not need to bump him up all that much.  But it is going to cost to replace Horford unless we get really lucky in the draft or something.  A lot can happen between now and the 2026-27 off season so it is hard to project.  Even this offseason is a ways away.  But we all just can't help ourselves from over analyzing this.

[Birdman]

Holiday just isn?t same player as last year?I say Al will retire, need a big to replace Al & porzingis injuries concern

[Goldstar88]

I had waded into this discussion in the Celtics Sell thread.  I don't think they are going to do anything involving a starter this off season.  Hopefully this is not just be wishful thinking.  In broad terms, Tatum goes up about $20M, Hauser goes up $8M, Kornet is a UFA at $2M and will go up, and we have to do something with Horford who is at about $10M now.  I am thinking they just accept Tatum's increase, they hope to get Horford down some, Kornet is going to get a raise, and then maybe they trade Hauser to save money.  The 2nd apron threshold is projected to go up from about $189M to about $208M so that provides some headroom.  I am not sure that the tax threshold is going up based on what I am able to find.  Someone may be able to confirm this.

Even though Hauser is a better overall player than Kornet, Kornet may be more important to the team.  We know that Porzingis and Horford will miss time.  Plus transactionally, if we don't sign Kornet, we get nothing in return.  We can trade Hauser.  Maybe if you think Queta can step up, you live with losing Kornet, but I am not there.  If it was me, I would trade Hauser to pay Kornet and Horford.  Now if the Celtics decide to just pay everyone (reduce Horford, increase Kornet), great, but I suspect they will have to do something this off season.  And Hauser may return decent value, maybe a young big that can project to replace Horford as the first big off the bench.  Then you live with Craig and Scheierman taking Hauser's minutes or something like that.

In the 2026 off season, they will have to do something with Porzingis and by that time, it is very likely they will need to replace Horford with a rotation caliber big.  Porzingis only plays 60-65 games per season, at best, that is pretty well established.  And there is always the looming risk of a serious injury, so we may not need to bump him up all that much.  But it is going to cost to replace Horford unless we get really lucky in the draft or something.  A lot can happen between now and the 2026-27 off season so it is hard to project.  Even this offseason is a ways away.  But we all just can't help ourselves from over analyzing this.

I think that would be a huge mistake. Sam turned 27 a few months ago and is under contract for the next 4 years on a very team friendly deal ($10M next year). Luke will be 30 in July and Horford will be 40 next year. Hauser is a career 42% 3pt shooter and his defense is good at this point. With how the C?s play, his skillet would be a lot more difficult/expensive to replace than Kornet?s would. I don?t think anyone will be throwing money at Horford considering his age. If they move on from Jrue, they still have White and Pritchard at PG.  JB and Hauser can start at the 2/3.  They can also likely keep Kornet and Horford.

[Roy H.]

I think we're projected to be about $17.7 million above the second apron before signing any free agents.  So, that's the goal.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total

[Who]

There was some talk about Colin Sexton's game at the end of the game thread after the Utah Jazz game. I was thinking after those posts, that I would like Sexton as a replacement for Jrue.

Not the same type of player. Jrue strong non-scoring contributions with low volume scoring. Sexton with high volume scoring and middling non-scoring contributions. A different type of guard ... but I think he would work well on the Celtics playing in the same backcourt as D White and alongside Tatum & Jaylen.

So in this discussion with Jrue being mentioned as the possible odd-man out, if Sexton were to replace Jrue it would be because Porzingis is the odd man out. The only reason for Porzingis to be the odd man out is injuries / injury risk. Ideally he would be healthy and the guy you keep. However, if you move on from him ...

Then the idea with Sexton as a Jrue replacement is age related. Move on from an older guard to a younger guard in order to extend the title window. The four man core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White, Sexton would have more opportunities to win titles together. A good 4-6 year window. Add role player bigs to replace Porzingis / Horford. I was thinking that Sexton may become available at a relatively low price at some point (given Utah's terrible team). So Jrue and multiple future 1sts for Sexton.

I mentioned in the game thread that I like the idea of Sexton as a 3rd/4th option on a top team. That is what he would be here in Boston. He'd be the 3rd scorer behind the Jays and 4th best overall player behind the Jays & D White. I like how D White and Sexton could work together. Different types of players that could complement each other well.

Replacing Jrue, Porzingis, and Horford with Collin Sexton and role players is not going to win Boston any Championships. That would be a disaster. Sexton is like a prime Terry Rozier level player. Hard pass on that. Porzingis may be injury prone, but he?s still only 29. If Jrue is gone, they definitely need KP to contend. He?s the 3rd best player on the team. Lately, he?s been the 2nd best player for the Celtics.

Our next title window after this group is broken up will likely be with a less talented roster.

It is somewhat of a miracle that Brad Stevens was able to get 5 guys on this roster together with the quality of Tatum, Jaylen, Porzingis, D White, and Jrue.

This team will have to figure out how to win with less (once this core is broken up due to cap concerns, age & decline, injuries).

The next title winning will not be as talented as this group is.

[Goldstar88]

There was some talk about Colin Sexton's game at the end of the game thread after the Utah Jazz game. I was thinking after those posts, that I would like Sexton as a replacement for Jrue.

Not the same type of player. Jrue strong non-scoring contributions with low volume scoring. Sexton with high volume scoring and middling non-scoring contributions. A different type of guard ... but I think he would work well on the Celtics playing in the same backcourt as D White and alongside Tatum & Jaylen.

So in this discussion with Jrue being mentioned as the possible odd-man out, if Sexton were to replace Jrue it would be because Porzingis is the odd man out. The only reason for Porzingis to be the odd man out is injuries / injury risk. Ideally he would be healthy and the guy you keep. However, if you move on from him ...

Then the idea with Sexton as a Jrue replacement is age related. Move on from an older guard to a younger guard in order to extend the title window. The four man core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White, Sexton would have more opportunities to win titles together. A good 4-6 year window. Add role player bigs to replace Porzingis / Horford. I was thinking that Sexton may become available at a relatively low price at some point (given Utah's terrible team). So Jrue and multiple future 1sts for Sexton.

I mentioned in the game thread that I like the idea of Sexton as a 3rd/4th option on a top team. That is what he would be here in Boston. He'd be the 3rd scorer behind the Jays and 4th best overall player behind the Jays & D White. I like how D White and Sexton could work together. Different types of players that could complement each other well.

Replacing Jrue, Porzingis, and Horford with Collin Sexton and role players is not going to win Boston any Championships. That would be a disaster. Sexton is like a prime Terry Rozier level player. Hard pass on that. Porzingis may be injury prone, but he?s still only 29. If Jrue is gone, they definitely need KP to contend. He?s the 3rd best player on the team. Lately, he?s been the 2nd best player for the Celtics.

Our next title window after this group is broken up will likely be with a less talented roster.

It is somewhat of a miracle that Brad Stevens was able to get 5 guys on this roster together with the quality of Tatum, Jaylen, Porzingis, D White, and Jrue.

This team will have to figure out how to win with less (once this core is broken up due to cap concerns, age & decline, injuries).

The next title winning will not be as talented as this group is.

If the C?s lose KP and Jrue and replace with inferior players like that they likely won?t be contending anymore.

[SparzWizard]

There was some talk about Colin Sexton's game at the end of the game thread after the Utah Jazz game. I was thinking after those posts, that I would like Sexton as a replacement for Jrue.

Not the same type of player. Jrue strong non-scoring contributions with low volume scoring. Sexton with high volume scoring and middling non-scoring contributions. A different type of guard ... but I think he would work well on the Celtics playing in the same backcourt as D White and alongside Tatum & Jaylen.

So in this discussion with Jrue being mentioned as the possible odd-man out, if Sexton were to replace Jrue it would be because Porzingis is the odd man out. The only reason for Porzingis to be the odd man out is injuries / injury risk. Ideally he would be healthy and the guy you keep. However, if you move on from him ...

Then the idea with Sexton as a Jrue replacement is age related. Move on from an older guard to a younger guard in order to extend the title window. The four man core of Tatum, Jaylen, D White, Sexton would have more opportunities to win titles together. A good 4-6 year window. Add role player bigs to replace Porzingis / Horford. I was thinking that Sexton may become available at a relatively low price at some point (given Utah's terrible team). So Jrue and multiple future 1sts for Sexton.

I mentioned in the game thread that I like the idea of Sexton as a 3rd/4th option on a top team. That is what he would be here in Boston. He'd be the 3rd scorer behind the Jays and 4th best overall player behind the Jays & D White. I like how D White and Sexton could work together. Different types of players that could complement each other well.

Replacing Jrue, Porzingis, and Horford with Collin Sexton and role players is not going to win Boston any Championships. That would be a disaster. Sexton is like a prime Terry Rozier level player. Hard pass on that. Porzingis may be injury prone, but he?s still only 29. If Jrue is gone, they definitely need KP to contend. He?s the 3rd best player on the team. Lately, he?s been the 2nd best player for the Celtics.

Our next title window after this group is broken up will likely be with a less talented roster.

It is somewhat of a miracle that Brad Stevens was able to get 5 guys on this roster together with the quality of Tatum, Jaylen, Porzingis, D White, and Jrue.

This team will have to figure out how to win with less (once this core is broken up due to cap concerns, age & decline, injuries).

The next title winning will not be as talented as this group is.

If the C?s lose KP and Jrue and replace with inferior players like that they likely won?t be contending anymore.

And with how improved other teams have made around the league, it's hard to contend. We need better returning pieces if we do flip them.

[trickybilly]

Not sure Al is retiring. He looks like he's in his prime. He should be in all-defrnse conversation.