Tatum?s Catch 22 Image

[Big333223]

The comp I've landed on for Tatum is Dirk Nowitzki.

He's not a killer like Jordan or Bird. He's not a big-personality like Magic or Lebron. He doesn't have the stoicism of Duncan. I think Tatum is a guy who shows up and leads by example.

He doesn't shy away from the media so he doesn't have the mystique of someone like Kawhi but he also isn't as comfortable as a public figure as someone like Steph Curry or Lebron. I think people don't quite know what to make of him. 

My guess is, he's going to continue to be second-guessed by fans for a while and then in a few years the numbers and the success is going overwhelm any doubts about how great he is.

[perks-a-beast]

The comp I've landed on for Tatum is Dirk Nowitzki.

He's not a killer like Jordan or Bird. He's not a big-personality like Magic or Lebron. He doesn't have the stoicism of Duncan. I think Tatum is a guy who shows up and leads by example.

He doesn't shy away from the media so he doesn't have the mystique of someone like Kawhi but he also isn't as comfortable as a public figure as someone like Steph Curry or Lebron. I think people don't quite know what to make of him. 

My guess is, he's going to continue to be second-guessed by fans for a while and then in a few years the numbers and the success is going overwhelm any doubts about how great he is.

Dirk was an elite shooter and someone who you could always count on to get big buckets in crunch time. Tatum is neither of those things, unfortunately.

[celticinorlando]

I've heard media calling him Ben Simmons 2.0. I sure hope that isn't the case when regular season begins. But hearing him missing jump shots during practice in the Olympics alarmed me.

This is absolutely absurd. Ben Simmons? The amount of people discounting him is astounding.

He was told when he can't make shots, he does not impact the game. That totally changed last year as he did everything else esp. in the playoffs and still averaged 25.0 points, 9.7 rebounds and 6.3 assists. He went to the rim more. He rebounded at a high clip. He played great defense.

He won a NBA title and now we have people calling him Ben Simmons just because of the Olympics and tired legs? If you are using the Olympics to validate any player then that probably isn't the best thing to do.

JT is going to have another great year for the Celtics and if they win Banner 19 he will be the Finals MVP.

[Amonkey]

I've heard media calling him Ben Simmons 2.0. I sure hope that isn't the case when regular season begins. But hearing him missing jump shots during practice in the Olympics alarmed me.

This is absolutely absurd. Ben Simmons? The amount of people discounting him is astounding.

He was told when he can't make shots, he does not impact the game. That totally changed last year as he did everything else esp. in the playoffs and still averaged 25.0 points, 9.7 rebounds and 6.3 assists. He went to the rim more. He rebounded at a high clip. He played great defense.

He won a NBA title and now we have people calling him Ben Simmons just because of the Olympics and tired legs? If you are using the Olympics to validate any player then that probably isn't the best thing to do.

JT is going to have another great year for the Celtics and if they win Banner 19 he will be the Finals MVP.

This is all good in the motivation tank. Tatum seems to be a pretty quiet and reserved as a player, but he also does seem to be a motivated person with all of the previous losses in big games. He may not say it out loud, but I think this may give him an extra drive to go hard this upcoming season.

[jambr380]

The comp I've landed on for Tatum is Dirk Nowitzki.

He's not a killer like Jordan or Bird. He's not a big-personality like Magic or Lebron. He doesn't have the stoicism of Duncan. I think Tatum is a guy who shows up and leads by example.

He doesn't shy away from the media so he doesn't have the mystique of someone like Kawhi but he also isn't as comfortable as a public figure as someone like Steph Curry or Lebron. I think people don't quite know what to make of him. 

My guess is, he's going to continue to be second-guessed by fans for a while and then in a few years the numbers and the success is going overwhelm any doubts about how great he is.

Dirk was an elite shooter and someone who you could always count on to get big buckets in crunch time. Tatum is neither of those things, unfortunately.

I think it was pretty clear Big333223 was talking about Tatum's personality, status, and reputation being like Dirk's, not his game. Dirk had a fantastic offensive arsenal (Tatum is no slouch here), but Tatum is a better playmaker and better defensive player.

I generally agree, but I do think it'll be hard to get that elusive MVP. Maybe if Jaylen gets hurt one year, Tatum puts up even bigger numbers, and the Celtics are still a contender...which, honestly, is very possible. I just hope Brown doesn't have that kind of injury, though.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

The comp I've landed on for Tatum is Dirk Nowitzki.

He's not a killer like Jordan or Bird. He's not a big-personality like Magic or Lebron. He doesn't have the stoicism of Duncan. I think Tatum is a guy who shows up and leads by example.

He doesn't shy away from the media so he doesn't have the mystique of someone like Kawhi but he also isn't as comfortable as a public figure as someone like Steph Curry or Lebron. I think people don't quite know what to make of him. 

My guess is, he's going to continue to be second-guessed by fans for a while and then in a few years the numbers and the success is going overwhelm any doubts about how great he is.

Dirk was an elite shooter and someone who you could always count on to get big buckets in crunch time. Tatum is neither of those things, unfortunately.

I think it was pretty clear Big333223 was talking about Tatum's personality, status, and reputation being like Dirk's, not his game. Dirk had a fantastic offensive arsenal (Tatum is no slouch here), but Tatum is a better playmaker and better defensive player.

I generally agree, but I do think it'll be hard to get that elusive MVP. Maybe if Jaylen gets hurt one year, Tatum puts up even bigger numbers, and the Celtics are still a contender...which, honestly, is very possible. I just hope Brown doesn't have that kind of injury, though.

To get a bit off track, Dirk hadn't made one All-NBA 1st team through his age 25 season. Tatum made 3 in a row.

I do think the last step in Tatum's evolution will be the shot-making in big moments. We are very scarry team if we get that.

[bdm860]

The comp I've landed on for Tatum is Dirk Nowitzki.

He's not a killer like Jordan or Bird. He's not a big-personality like Magic or Lebron. He doesn't have the stoicism of Duncan. I think Tatum is a guy who shows up and leads by example.

He doesn't shy away from the media so he doesn't have the mystique of someone like Kawhi but he also isn't as comfortable as a public figure as someone like Steph Curry or Lebron. I think people don't quite know what to make of him. 

My guess is, he's going to continue to be second-guessed by fans for a while and then in a few years the numbers and the success is going overwhelm any doubts about how great he is.

Dirk was an elite shooter and someone who you could always count on to get big buckets in crunch time. Tatum is neither of those things, unfortunately.

I think it was pretty clear Big333223 was talking about Tatum's personality, status, and reputation being like Dirk's, not his game. Dirk had a fantastic offensive arsenal (Tatum is no slouch here), but Tatum is a better playmaker and better defensive player.

I generally agree, but I do think it'll be hard to get that elusive MVP. Maybe if Jaylen gets hurt one year, Tatum puts up even bigger numbers, and the Celtics are still a contender...which, honestly, is very possible. I just hope Brown doesn't have that kind of injury, though.

If you're thinking of hypothetical injuries impacting the MVP race, I'd prefer it if you think about it happening to the opponents instead 

The hypothetical path I see, C's play at a 65+ win pace with a big gap between them and everyone else, and a little thinning of the herd of MVP contenders due to injuries, poor team performance, voter fatigue, etc.  (For Dirk in '07, there was a big win gap with Mavs at 67 wins, voter fatigue with Nash winning the two previous, and guys like Kobe on a .500ish team and KG on a losing team).  There's 5 guys ahead of Tatum (Jokic, Embiid, SGA. Doncic, Giannis), and then a couple of more coming up behind him (Brunson, Ant), and I can definitely see a couple of guys failing to meet the 65 game threshold, and a couple of teams under-performing expectations.  That's the path I'm hoping for.

[Vermont Green]

I did a Statshead comparison of Tatum, Durant, and LeBron for the last 3 seasons.  Games played was closer than I thought.  Statistically, Tatum is right there with them.  Scoring about even.  Rebounding edge to Tatum, Tatum the least assists and the lowest efficiency (EFG% was listed).  I think that says it right there, Tatum needs to be more efficient and better at getting others involved (handling the double and triple teams).

His assists have improved every season since his rookie season, it is clear he is getting better at making others better and handling the defensive pressure (taking what they give you).  His TS% last season was 60.4% just below his career high in 2023-23 of 60.7% (he gets to the line a lot which helps this stat).  He is heading in the right direction with the important measures.

I expect Tatum to have an MVP level season next season.  It is tough for him to win MVP though.  Luka, who plays no defense, will get more votes.  You have guys like Jokic and Giannis in the mix who are extremely good.  I don't understand what people are worried about with Tatum though.  The national perspective seems to undervalue him in my opinion, but I would think Celtics fan would not fall for that.

My predictions:

27 pt/gm (scoring down a little due to reduce usage and FGA)
8 reb/gm
7 asst/gm
60+ TS%
38.5 3P%
Above Average Defense
At least 5 game winning clutch 4th quarters (there will not be that many close games)

[jambr380]

The comp I've landed on for Tatum is Dirk Nowitzki.

He's not a killer like Jordan or Bird. He's not a big-personality like Magic or Lebron. He doesn't have the stoicism of Duncan. I think Tatum is a guy who shows up and leads by example.

He doesn't shy away from the media so he doesn't have the mystique of someone like Kawhi but he also isn't as comfortable as a public figure as someone like Steph Curry or Lebron. I think people don't quite know what to make of him. 

My guess is, he's going to continue to be second-guessed by fans for a while and then in a few years the numbers and the success is going overwhelm any doubts about how great he is.

Dirk was an elite shooter and someone who you could always count on to get big buckets in crunch time. Tatum is neither of those things, unfortunately.

I think it was pretty clear Big333223 was talking about Tatum's personality, status, and reputation being like Dirk's, not his game. Dirk had a fantastic offensive arsenal (Tatum is no slouch here), but Tatum is a better playmaker and better defensive player.

I generally agree, but I do think it'll be hard to get that elusive MVP. Maybe if Jaylen gets hurt one year, Tatum puts up even bigger numbers, and the Celtics are still a contender...which, honestly, is very possible. I just hope Brown doesn't have that kind of injury, though.

If you're thinking of hypothetical injuries impacting the MVP race, I'd prefer it if you think about it happening to the opponents instead 

The hypothetical path I see, C's play at a 65+ win pace with a big gap between them and everyone else, and a little thinning of the herd of MVP contenders due to injuries, poor team performance, voter fatigue, etc.  (For Dirk in '07, there was a big win gap with Mavs at 67 wins, voter fatigue with Nash winning the two previous, and guys like Kobe on a .500ish team and KG on a losing team).  There's 5 guys ahead of Tatum (Jokic, Embiid, SGA. Doncic, Giannis), and then a couple of more coming up behind him (Brunson, Ant), and I can definitely see a couple of guys failing to meet the 65 game threshold, and a couple of teams under-performing expectations.  That's the path I'm hoping for.

It's certainly possible. We actually will have a pretty major absence right from the jump with no KP. I'm not sure how much time he'll miss, but Tatum will have that going for him early on. So, with that narrative and with 20 ppg the team needs to make up for, that should help. Unfortunately the large win gap did nothing for him last year, but if the team can put up wins at a similar rate again, then I agree with your basic premise.

And hopefully KP comes back stronger and healthier than ever, and the team is fully healthy going into and throughout the playoffs. We're going to need it this time

[Big333223]

The comp I've landed on for Tatum is Dirk Nowitzki.

He's not a killer like Jordan or Bird. He's not a big-personality like Magic or Lebron. He doesn't have the stoicism of Duncan. I think Tatum is a guy who shows up and leads by example.

He doesn't shy away from the media so he doesn't have the mystique of someone like Kawhi but he also isn't as comfortable as a public figure as someone like Steph Curry or Lebron. I think people don't quite know what to make of him. 

My guess is, he's going to continue to be second-guessed by fans for a while and then in a few years the numbers and the success is going overwhelm any doubts about how great he is.

Dirk was an elite shooter and someone who you could always count on to get big buckets in crunch time. Tatum is neither of those things, unfortunately.

I think it was pretty clear Big333223 was talking about Tatum's personality, status, and reputation being like Dirk's, not his game. Dirk had a fantastic offensive arsenal (Tatum is no slouch here), but Tatum is a better playmaker and better defensive player.

I generally agree, but I do think it'll be hard to get that elusive MVP. Maybe if Jaylen gets hurt one year, Tatum puts up even bigger numbers, and the Celtics are still a contender...which, honestly, is very possible. I just hope Brown doesn't have that kind of injury, though.

If you're thinking of hypothetical injuries impacting the MVP race, I'd prefer it if you think about it happening to the opponents instead 

The hypothetical path I see, C's play at a 65+ win pace with a big gap between them and everyone else, and a little thinning of the herd of MVP contenders due to injuries, poor team performance, voter fatigue, etc.  (For Dirk in '07, there was a big win gap with Mavs at 67 wins, voter fatigue with Nash winning the two previous, and guys like Kobe on a .500ish team and KG on a losing team).  There's 5 guys ahead of Tatum (Jokic, Embiid, SGA. Doncic, Giannis), and then a couple of more coming up behind him (Brunson, Ant), and I can definitely see a couple of guys failing to meet the 65 game threshold, and a couple of teams under-performing expectations.  That's the path I'm hoping for.

It's certainly possible. We actually will have a pretty major absence right from the jump with no KP. I'm not sure how much time he'll miss, but Tatum will have that going for him early on. So, with that narrative and with 20 ppg the team needs to make up for, that should help. Unfortunately the large win gap did nothing for him last year, but if the team can put up wins at a similar rate again, then I agree with your basic premise.

And hopefully KP comes back stronger and healthier than ever, and the team is fully healthy going into and throughout the playoffs. We're going to need it this time

Don't forget that Tatum is still 26.

I have a feeling Tatum is going to keep putting up consistent 27-8-5 seasons for winning teams and finishing top 6 in MVP voting. And then, in a few years, there will be an injury to a top player, another top player will have a down year, another will be on a crappy team, and Tatum will put up another 27-8-5 for a really good Celtic team and he'll be the most sensible candidate.

[tenn_smoothie]

I can?t ever remember a star being so simultaneously overrated and underrated at the same time.  As Celtics fans we have a unique perspective on the guy, but the global view that I see on him is that he fallen so far below expectation that he is now actually being vastly underrated.  People seem to think he?s useless or ?not even the best player on his own team?.  Getting minuscule minute on the Olympic team has reinforced this notion.

Another narrative I?m seeing is that the ?league better watch out this year when Tatum (and Brown) come out for their revenge?.  So Tatum is gonna come out and tie Bird?s team scoring record again every night??? 60 points a night because he?s angry JT now?  That?s not who he is!

He?s never going to the chip on his shoulder guy.  He?s probably never going to guy we thought he had the potential to be either - the monster who can take over games and suck the will out of other teams on the regular.  But he also is still one of the best in the league and capable of leading a team to championship level basketball. 

He?s a conundrum, but he?s our conundrum and a [dang] good one.  A champ, not a chump.  Just not a mamba or an MJ or whatever?and that?s ok.  Not being one or the other doesn?t mean he?s a bum.  Too much hyperbole.

Very thoughtful summary, I think ...... and accurate.

I have certainly had my share of frustration with Jayson Tatum, as well as Jaylen Brown for that matter.
I keep wanting them to be just a little more than they are, Tatum in the competitive nature department and Brown in the BBIQ department.
I maintain that we had some good fortune winning this season and I'm not sure just how strong these two can be defending the title.
But as Redz stated so well, for all their superstar flaws, they are our guys and they are Celtics.
I'd love nothing more than to see them hang a couple of more banners and then put #0 and #7 in the rafters next to them.

[W8ting2McHale]

Tatum?s image just popped up marketing men?s cologne on another site. I guess this disrespect from Kerr hasn?t affected his marketability? He should send Kerr a bottle so he doesn?t stink up the next room he walks into.

[tazzmaniac]

I can?t ever remember a star being so simultaneously overrated and underrated at the same time.  As Celtics fans we have a unique perspective on the guy, but the global view that I see on him is that he fallen so far below expectation that he is now actually being vastly underrated.  People seem to think he?s useless or ?not even the best player on his own team?.  Getting minuscule minute on the Olympic team has reinforced this notion.

Another narrative I?m seeing is that the ?league better watch out this year when Tatum (and Brown) come out for their revenge?.  So Tatum is gonna come out and tie Bird?s team scoring record again every night??? 60 points a night because he?s angry JT now?  That?s not who he is!

He?s never going to the chip on his shoulder guy.  He?s probably never going to guy we thought he had the potential to be either - the monster who can take over games and suck the will out of other teams on the regular.  But he also is still one of the best in the league and capable of leading a team to championship level basketball. 

He?s a conundrum, but he?s our conundrum and a [dang] good one.  A champ, not a chump.  Just not a mamba or an MJ or whatever?and that?s ok.  Not being one or the other doesn?t mean he?s a bum.  Too much hyperbole.

Very thoughtful summary, I think ...... and accurate.

I have certainly had my share of frustration with Jayson Tatum, as well as Jaylen Brown for that matter.
I keep wanting them to be just a little more than they are, Tatum in the competitive nature department and Brown in the BBIQ department.
I maintain that we had some good fortune winning this season and I'm not sure just how strong these two can be defending the title.
But as Redz stated so well, for all their superstar flaws, they are our guys and they are Celtics.
I'd love nothing more than to see them hang a couple of more banners and then put #0 and #7 in the rafters next to them.

Folks just need to take a chill pill.  This is ridiculous 2 months after winning the championship after more than a decade drought.  The Celts should be the clear favorite for next season too.  Celts fans ought to be ecstatic having Tatum leading the team.  Just look at all the other star players with their flaws before nitpicking on Tatum and his.   

Any team needs some good fortune to win a championship but not having your starting center for most of the playoffs certainly limits the amount of good fortune that the Celts had.  The Celts dominated the East and were clearly the best team in the NBA.  Unless you're going to throw more injuries into the mix, I don't think there is a legitimate scenario for Celtics not winning last season.  It might have been a bit tougher, but the Celts would have beaten the Nuggets or TWolves in the finals too. 

[tenn_smoothie]

Maybe my comment came off more negative than I intended. As someone who fell in love with the Celtics during their 1969 run to the title as the "old champs" that they were that season, I am so happy to have won Banner 18 and am hoping for a few more for this current group. They just feel more fragile to me than past Celtic eras. With some good luck health-wise, I believe them to be capable of more titles.

Also hopeful that Brad can work his magic and add another piece or two to help the J's during this era of the CBA that penalizes franchises for doing a good job of building a championship team. I'm sure the Martian in the Commissioner's office would be happy to see us fail.

[kraidstar]

Maybe my comment came off more negative than I intended. As someone who fell in love with the Celtics during their 1969 run to the title as the "old champs" that they were that season, I am so happy to have won Banner 18 and am hoping for a few more for this current group. They just feel more fragile to me than past Celtic eras. With some good luck health-wise, I believe them to be capable of more titles.

Also hopeful that Brad can work his magic and add another piece or two to help the J's during this era of the CBA that penalizes franchises for doing a good job of building a championship team. I'm sure the Martian in the Commissioner's office would be happy to see us fail.

Silver is a vampire, not a Martian