Author Topic: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?  (Read 6782 times)

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Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« on: July 26, 2024, 03:29:22 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I'm presenting this as a discussion topic, because the interview surprised me with its candor.  It's not a "bash Tatum" thread.  In a very good article about both Bob Cousy and Jayson Tatum, Tatum said this:

Quote
In the weeks after the loss to the Warriors, Tatum admitted to a full-blown crisis of confidence.

?That was the first time where I thought, I don?t know, maybe I?m not one of the guys that can be the best player on the championship team,? Tatum says. ?Because it was so hard to get to the Finals. And we still didn?t win. Getting there, that was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I was drained. That summer I had moments thinking that maybe you have to be a legend to win a championship. And there were moments where I wondered if I was going to be that guy, just because of how hard it is.?

Tatum can?t point to a specific moment that pushed him past it. ?Time heals all,? he shrugs.

https://www.si.com/nba/the-celtics-define-greatness-in-any-era

Initial thoughts:

1.  Thank God he never voiced that publicly.  He would have gotten killed.

2.  What a bad time for your head coach to get himself fired.

Beyond that, have other top athletes voiced such thoughts?  I think of elite athletes having a certain arrogance/confidence/cockiness that makes them great.  A swagger.  Bird had it.  Brady.  Jordan.  Papi.  Lebron seemed to go back and forth, but he became his own version of an alpha.

Is there something lesser about athletes that have self doubt?  Does it change your opinion of JT?  And now that he knows he can do it, will those self doubts fade?


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Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2024, 04:16:18 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Hard to know which athletes may have been badly impacted by self doubt, though I just can?t imagine having a human brain and not having any self doubt.  I bet that in the Indiana, Bobby Knight era that Bird had some self doubt.  As confident as KG was, do you think there weren?t moments in Minny when he had doubts about his ability to lead his team to a championship?  I would guess TB12 had a doubt or 2 in Michigan and as a rookie. Even if he believed strongly in himself how couldn?t there be moments when he entertained the thought that all these GMs who passed on him might not be wrong?

I think every great athlete can point to moments of doubt.

Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2024, 04:22:29 PM »

Offline Atzar

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It can be a weakness in excess, sure.  But in a broader sense (beyond just athletes, but certainly including athletes), I think a certain amount of self-doubt is healthy.  Not so much that it shuts you down or ruins your mental health.  But enough to cause introspection - to keep you analyzing and working on yourself.  Gets you back in the gym, or perhaps keeps you in it later. 

I think more of him for saying this, not less.  We all go through things.  We should normalize talking about these dark places we sometimes go to.  He went through it and came out the other side.  That should be celebrated. 

Perhaps this does have a 'monkey off the back' effect for him in the long run.  But there's a new mountain to climb every year.  So enjoy it, but there will come a time to get your ass back in the gym - that jumpshot looks pretty busted right now, lol. 

Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2024, 04:37:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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It is only a weakness if it negatively impacts a players career. And I say career because I'm sure it affects players in games here and there. Like a guy that has missed 10 straight shots, probably has some self doubt and questions whether they should take that 11th one.  As long as that sort of thing doesn't linger, then it is fine and healthy.
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Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2024, 06:51:36 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Tatum won, so the self doubt should be out the window. I expect him to be even better in the playoffs next year with that weight lifted.

LeBron couldn?t win in Cleveland the first time around. I?d imagine he had moments of self doubt during those years. Seems normal for most athletes to deal with that at some point during their career.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2024, 09:09:12 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2024, 08:32:53 PM »

Online ozgod

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I'm presenting this as a discussion topic, because the interview surprised me with its candor.  It's not a "bash Tatum" thread.  In a very good article about both Bob Cousy and Jayson Tatum, Tatum said this:

Quote
In the weeks after the loss to the Warriors, Tatum admitted to a full-blown crisis of confidence.

?That was the first time where I thought, I don?t know, maybe I?m not one of the guys that can be the best player on the championship team,? Tatum says. ?Because it was so hard to get to the Finals. And we still didn?t win. Getting there, that was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I was drained. That summer I had moments thinking that maybe you have to be a legend to win a championship. And there were moments where I wondered if I was going to be that guy, just because of how hard it is.?

Tatum can?t point to a specific moment that pushed him past it. ?Time heals all,? he shrugs.

https://www.si.com/nba/the-celtics-define-greatness-in-any-era

Initial thoughts:

1.  Thank God he never voiced that publicly.  He would have gotten killed.

2.  What a bad time for your head coach to get himself fired.

Beyond that, have other top athletes voiced such thoughts?  I think of elite athletes having a certain arrogance/confidence/cockiness that makes them great.  A swagger.  Bird had it.  Brady.  Jordan.  Papi.  Lebron seemed to go back and forth, but he became his own version of an alpha.

Is there something lesser about athletes that have self doubt?  Does it change your opinion of JT?  And now that he knows he can do it, will those self doubts fade?

I feel like every athlete, just like every person, goes through periods of self doubt. It's just that we don't always see it. We see the public facing side of their persona, the Mamba Mentality if you like. We don't see them during their down times, when they wonder if they are good enough, or will they ever be good enough, or can they come back from whatever latest setback they underwent.

I'm just a normal person and God knows I've gone through many periods of self doubt in life. But as Nelson Mandela once said, "Do not judge me by my successes, judge me by how many times I fell down and got back up again." He also said "I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear."

I think they all go through periods of self-doubt. Tatum's just one of the few honest enough to admit it in public.
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Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2024, 09:51:23 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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The most arrogant have a lot of self doubt. I think Tatum was just being open, which is a sign of confidence and strength. I don?t think Jordan or Kobe would be confident enough to show any semblance of self-doubt.
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Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2024, 09:58:30 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I think self-awareness is a strength in every walk of life.

What I don't like is how close Tatum got to settling. The difference with Kobe isn't that he was always the best, but he was always working to be the best. He was always hungry for more. From this quote it sounds like Tatum was close to settling.

Frankly, it may have been Brown's hunger to be the best that won this championship, not Tatum's, even though most think of Tatum as the better player.

I've said a few times on here that I think Tatum going up a level is the greatest opportunity for this team to continue to improve. If he can get a bit more confident as a scorer, and can finish a bit better late in the game, this team is even more nasty. 

Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2024, 11:24:03 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The most arrogant have a lot of self doubt. I think Tatum was just being open, which is a sign of confidence and strength. I don?t think Jordan or Kobe would be confident enough to show any semblance of self-doubt.

I think this is silly, honestly.  It's one of those things you see on a meme that's supposed to be profound.

Do you think Jordan or Kobe or Bird ever thought "am I good enough to be the best player on a championship team?"  There's no way.  To characterize that self-belief as a negative or a "lack of confidence" is nonsensical.


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Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2024, 12:18:49 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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The most arrogant have a lot of self doubt. I think Tatum was just being open, which is a sign of confidence and strength. I don?t think Jordan or Kobe would be confident enough to show any semblance of self-doubt.

I think this is silly, honestly.  It's one of those things you see on a meme that's supposed to be profound.

Do you think Jordan or Kobe or Bird ever thought "am I good enough to be the best player on a championship team?"  There's no way.  To characterize that self-belief as a negative or a "lack of confidence" is nonsensical.

I'm not sure I'm saying its a negative. It is, however, acting or posturing. MJ and Kobe wanted to be the tough guys, so they put that face on. Everyone has self doubt- some hide it more than others. Hiding it doesn't make one tough. Just good at presenting what they want people to see.
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Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2024, 12:29:57 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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The most arrogant have a lot of self doubt. I think Tatum was just being open, which is a sign of confidence and strength. I don?t think Jordan or Kobe would be confident enough to show any semblance of self-doubt.

I think this is silly, honestly.  It's one of those things you see on a meme that's supposed to be profound.

Do you think Jordan or Kobe or Bird ever thought "am I good enough to be the best player on a championship team?"  There's no way.  To characterize that self-belief as a negative or a "lack of confidence" is nonsensical.

I'm not sure I'm saying its a negative. It is, however, acting or posturing. MJ and Kobe wanted to be the tough guys, so they put that face on. Everyone has self doubt- some hide it more than others. Hiding it doesn't make one tough. Just good at presenting what they want people to see.

I don't really believe this is true.  I think all people probably have some minor moments of self doubt, but I think there are a lot of people who are truly confident. Thoughts like "am I good enough " don't really enter their head.



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Re: Is self-doubt in athletes a weakness?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2024, 12:44:06 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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The most arrogant have a lot of self doubt. I think Tatum was just being open, which is a sign of confidence and strength. I don?t think Jordan or Kobe would be confident enough to show any semblance of self-doubt.

I think this is silly, honestly.  It's one of those things you see on a meme that's supposed to be profound.

Do you think Jordan or Kobe or Bird ever thought "am I good enough to be the best player on a championship team?"  There's no way.  To characterize that self-belief as a negative or a "lack of confidence" is nonsensical.

I'm not sure I'm saying its a negative. It is, however, acting or posturing. MJ and Kobe wanted to be the tough guys, so they put that face on. Everyone has self doubt- some hide it more than others. Hiding it doesn't make one tough. Just good at presenting what they want people to see.

I don't really believe this is true.  I think all people probably have some minor moments of self doubt, but I think there are a lot of people who are truly confident. Thoughts like "am I good enough " don't really enter their head.

I think Tatum is truly confident, regardless of what he said in an interview. He's a top 10 player, and maybe top 5 in the league. He calls for the ball at the end of the game. Tatum wouldn't have gotten this far otherwise.

Also, MJ and Larry won pretty early in their careers- 81 Celtics and 82 Tarheels. I bet Tatum thinks he's good enough now.

Edit: I read the article and wasn't shocked by his self doubt. I think he's being honest, and that's ok. When his shot didn't fall, he found other ways to help the team win. That alone gave him a couple nods for Finals MVP.  For me, his actions speak louder than the words in this interview.
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