So what were you wrong about this season?

[Roy H.]

Did people think Jaylen did not contribute to winning? I know there was a long thread about that this season. Can?t find it now. I started to believe it but when he won mvp of both cf and finals I couldn?t buy the argument any more.

The way he cut down his turnovers and showed more consistency than Tatum was kind of shocking tbh.

It?s been hogwash forever.  Think of the mental gymnastics needed to believe the Celtics could win 70% of their games over the last three seasons, as well as 9 of 11 playoff series, while having the player who is #2 in minutes over that run not contribute to winning.  Now also imagine one could believe that while simultaneously believing that the only player who plays more is not a top 6 player or whatever.  They can?t both be true ? imagine how good Jayson Tatum must be to carry the Celtics to such success with Jaylen Brown being deadweight for over 60% of the team?s minutes.  My brain would be tied up in knots with all the contortions needed to think that both are true.  Most likely they?re both false (the JB doesn?t contribute to winning argument being the more absurd), but both true?  Hogwash.

No it's because we had a bad coach.

Ha.  Yeah.  The key difference is that most of the Joe critics have agreed that he was better this year, whether that be in-game or in the locker room.  It will be interesting to follow Joe's coaching reputation amongst local fans and media. 

In 2007, a lot of Celtics fans thought that Doc was a garbage coach.  Then, in 2008 he was a great coach for that particular team.  Thibs left, but Doc was still regarded as a very good to great coach.  Then the locker room got divided and messy and Doc left.  He's coached in LA, Philly and Milwaukee, and most Boston fans think he's not a particularly good coach, and perhaps a bad one.

=====================================

I've never liked the "JB doesn't contribute to winning" take.  I've never really bought into the "JB isn't an optimal fit next to JT" argument, either, although I think there's more support for that.  But, in the modern NBA, isn't the ideal to basically have two excellent 2-way wings?  It certainly helps with modern defense, at least.

[Kernewek]

Exactly - as of now we have a title-winning roster & staff. I think most of us will find it difficult to take much issue with anything (beyond signings & draft picks) until the next season starts, just based on that.


Makes for a pretty boring off-season conversation, though.

[Roy H.]

Exactly - as of now we have a title-winning roster & staff. I think most of us will find it difficult to take much issue with anything (beyond signings & draft picks) until the next season starts, just based on that.


Makes for a pretty boring off-season conversation, though.

I am already preparing my "dumpster dive" takes for free agency, and reserve the right to criticize Brad for trading down too far in the draft (I'm still bitter he traded one of our seconds to ATL instead of taking TJD.).

[green_bballers13]

Did people think Jaylen did not contribute to winning? I know there was a long thread about that this season. Can?t find it now. I started to believe it but when he won mvp of both cf and finals I couldn?t buy the argument any more.

The way he cut down his turnovers and showed more consistency than Tatum was kind of shocking tbh.

It?s been hogwash forever.  Think of the mental gymnastics needed to believe the Celtics could win 70% of their games over the last three seasons, as well as 9 of 11 playoff series, while having the player who is #2 in minutes over that run not contribute to winning.  Now also imagine one could believe that while simultaneously believing that the only player who plays more is not a top 6 player or whatever.  They can?t both be true ? imagine how good Jayson Tatum must be to carry the Celtics to such success with Jaylen Brown being deadweight for over 60% of the team?s minutes.  My brain would be tied up in knots with all the contortions needed to think that both are true.  Most likely they?re both false (the JB doesn?t contribute to winning argument being the more absurd), but both true?  Hogwash.

No it's because we had a bad coach.

Ha.  Yeah.  The key difference is that most of the Joe critics have agreed that he was better this year, whether that be in-game or in the locker room.  It will be interesting to follow Joe's coaching reputation amongst local fans and media. 

In 2007, a lot of Celtics fans thought that Doc was a garbage coach.  Then, in 2008 he was a great coach for that particular team.  Thibs left, but Doc was still regarded as a very good to great coach.  Then the locker room got divided and messy and Doc left.  He's coached in LA, Philly and Milwaukee, and most Boston fans think he's not a particularly good coach, and perhaps a bad one.

=====================================

I've never liked the "JB doesn't contribute to winning" take.  I've never really bought into the "JB isn't an optimal fit next to JT" argument, either, although I think there's more support for that.  But, in the modern NBA, isn't the ideal to basically have two excellent 2-way wings?  It certainly helps with modern defense, at least.

The author of the "JB doesn't contribute to winning" take also praised Luka Doncic and Trae Young. Effectively, defense doesn't matter in that viewpoint.

[Roy H.]

Did people think Jaylen did not contribute to winning? I know there was a long thread about that this season. Can?t find it now. I started to believe it but when he won mvp of both cf and finals I couldn?t buy the argument any more.

The way he cut down his turnovers and showed more consistency than Tatum was kind of shocking tbh.

It?s been hogwash forever.  Think of the mental gymnastics needed to believe the Celtics could win 70% of their games over the last three seasons, as well as 9 of 11 playoff series, while having the player who is #2 in minutes over that run not contribute to winning.  Now also imagine one could believe that while simultaneously believing that the only player who plays more is not a top 6 player or whatever.  They can?t both be true ? imagine how good Jayson Tatum must be to carry the Celtics to such success with Jaylen Brown being deadweight for over 60% of the team?s minutes.  My brain would be tied up in knots with all the contortions needed to think that both are true.  Most likely they?re both false (the JB doesn?t contribute to winning argument being the more absurd), but both true?  Hogwash.

No it's because we had a bad coach.

Ha.  Yeah.  The key difference is that most of the Joe critics have agreed that he was better this year, whether that be in-game or in the locker room.  It will be interesting to follow Joe's coaching reputation amongst local fans and media. 

In 2007, a lot of Celtics fans thought that Doc was a garbage coach.  Then, in 2008 he was a great coach for that particular team.  Thibs left, but Doc was still regarded as a very good to great coach.  Then the locker room got divided and messy and Doc left.  He's coached in LA, Philly and Milwaukee, and most Boston fans think he's not a particularly good coach, and perhaps a bad one.

=====================================

I've never liked the "JB doesn't contribute to winning" take.  I've never really bought into the "JB isn't an optimal fit next to JT" argument, either, although I think there's more support for that.  But, in the modern NBA, isn't the ideal to basically have two excellent 2-way wings?  It certainly helps with modern defense, at least.

The author of the "JB doesn't contribute to winning" take also praised Luka Doncic and Trae Young. Effectively, defense doesn't matter in that viewpoint.

I'd say it's an overemphasis on the "offensive engine" theory.  If every team should have one great player that the offense revolves around, not only would it undervalue secondary stars but would also elevate offense-only players.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Exactly - as of now we have a title-winning roster & staff. I think most of us will find it difficult to take much issue with anything (beyond signings & draft picks) until the next season starts, just based on that.


Makes for a pretty boring off-season conversation, though.

i mean based on our top 8.

forget top 5

lets get to first 3 off bench.

horford
hauser
PP

anyway we can upgrade over any of those 3? doubtful

after that who is up next? 9 spot

kornet?

only way you upgrade over him is getting a big who can make threes

is that a possibility? do we have the money? can it be done?

other than that i guess make draft picks and see if any are worth developing.

[otherdave]

I was wrong about Payton Pritchard.

I thought that he would be unplayable come the final two rounds of the playoffs.  I thought opposing teams would target him on the C's defensive end due to his size (6'1").   With his shooting and hustle, he showed that he belonged.

His shooting was terrible in the finals against Dallas (often missing pretty open shots), but I feel that was just a cold streak and that he will shoot better next finals.

HAVING SAID THAT.....

I feel like he has a very tradable contract should we need to pick up more depth at another position say due to injuries, or want draft picks or want to cut costs at some point.

I think Springer could be the better long term back up to Derrick and Jrue given his defensive prowess. Imagine either of the starting guards coming out of the game and there being no ease up on defense?  If Jaden Springer got the playing minutes that PP did this regular season (22.3 minutes), I think by the end of the season, he would approach PP's scoring average of 9.6/game (not basing any of this on Jaden's one summer league game, which was great!).

I feel like after this season, the C's maybe able to sign Springer to a cheaper long term contract than the Payton contract (for ultimately a more complete player).

Just my two cents....

[Kernewek]

Exactly - as of now we have a title-winning roster & staff. I think most of us will find it difficult to take much issue with anything (beyond signings & draft picks) until the next season starts, just based on that.


Makes for a pretty boring off-season conversation, though.

i mean based on our top 8.

forget top 5

lets get to first 3 off bench.

horford
hauser
PP

anyway we can upgrade over any of those 3? doubtful

after that who is up next? 9 spot

kornet?

only way you upgrade over him is getting a big who can make threes

is that a possibility? do we have the money? can it be done?

other than that i guess make draft picks and see if any are worth developing.

I think it's really, really difficult, especially if we think about it in a way where the other 29 teams want to win a championship as much as we do.

But yeah, Our 6-9 are good roleplayers but fairly uninspiring, especially if Horford keeps on his measured decline.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Joe not being a good coach, because last year he pretty much stunk.

[liam]

I was wrong about Payton Pritchard.

I thought that he would be unplayable come the final two rounds of the playoffs.  I thought opposing teams would target him on the C's defensive end due to his size (6'1").   With his shooting and hustle, he showed that he belonged.

His shooting was terrible in the finals against Dallas (often missing pretty open shots), but I feel that was just a cold streak and that he will shoot better next finals.

HAVING SAID THAT.....

I feel like he has a very tradable contract should we need to pick up more depth at another position say due to injuries, or want draft picks or want to cut costs at some point.

I think Springer could be the better long term back up to Derrick and Jrue given his defensive prowess. Imagine either of the starting guards coming out of the game and there being no ease up on defense?  If Jaden Springer got the playing minutes that PP did this regular season (22.3 minutes), I think by the end of the season, he would approach PP's scoring average of 9.6/game (not basing any of this on Jaden's one summer league game, which was great!).

I feel like after this season, the C's maybe able to sign Springer to a cheaper long term contract than the Payton contract (for ultimately a more complete player).

Just my two cents....

If Springer can hit the three at a good rate he'd add a lot to this squad.

[Surferdad]

I was wrong about Payton Pritchard.

I thought that he would be unplayable come the final two rounds of the playoffs.  I thought opposing teams would target him on the C's defensive end due to his size (6'1").   With his shooting and hustle, he showed that he belonged.

His shooting was terrible in the finals against Dallas (often missing pretty open shots), but I feel that was just a cold streak and that he will shoot better next finals.

HAVING SAID THAT.....

I feel like he has a very tradable contract should we need to pick up more depth at another position say due to injuries, or want draft picks or want to cut costs at some point.

I think Springer could be the better long term back up to Derrick and Jrue given his defensive prowess. Imagine either of the starting guards coming out of the game and there being no ease up on defense?  If Jaden Springer got the playing minutes that PP did this regular season (22.3 minutes), I think by the end of the season, he would approach PP's scoring average of 9.6/game (not basing any of this on Jaden's one summer league game, which was great!).

I feel like after this season, the C's maybe able to sign Springer to a cheaper long term contract than the Payton contract (for ultimately a more complete player).

Just my two cents....

If Springer can hit the three at a good rate he'd add a lot to this squad.

That would always be a ticket to PT, but in addition I noticed in SL that Springer has some ability to create his own shot. He?s also got good size which helps him on both sides of the ball.

[liam]

I was wrong about Payton Pritchard.

I thought that he would be unplayable come the final two rounds of the playoffs.  I thought opposing teams would target him on the C's defensive end due to his size (6'1").   With his shooting and hustle, he showed that he belonged.

His shooting was terrible in the finals against Dallas (often missing pretty open shots), but I feel that was just a cold streak and that he will shoot better next finals.

HAVING SAID THAT.....

I feel like he has a very tradable contract should we need to pick up more depth at another position say due to injuries, or want draft picks or want to cut costs at some point.

I think Springer could be the better long term back up to Derrick and Jrue given his defensive prowess. Imagine either of the starting guards coming out of the game and there being no ease up on defense?  If Jaden Springer got the playing minutes that PP did this regular season (22.3 minutes), I think by the end of the season, he would approach PP's scoring average of 9.6/game (not basing any of this on Jaden's one summer league game, which was great!).

I feel like after this season, the C's maybe able to sign Springer to a cheaper long term contract than the Payton contract (for ultimately a more complete player).

Just my two cents....

If Springer can hit the three at a good rate he'd add a lot to this squad.

That would always be a ticket to PT, but in addition I noticed in SL that Springer has some ability to create his own shot. He?s also got good size which helps him on both sides of the ball.

He's a good defender, Has a nice midrange game and he's a good passer. The 3 point shot in the NBA now is a must for a guard.

[green_bballers13]

I?m keeping PP and Hauser on modest deals u til they give us a reason to trade them. That might mean playing well and getting bundled for a better player ultimately. Pritchard?s range is unique.

[satch]

The coach...

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

That the playoffs run would be another succession of 6-7 game meat grinders.