Author Topic: Luka is taking a beating...  (Read 7244 times)

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Re: Luka is taking a beating...
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2024, 11:50:17 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Luka is very much comparable to Harden, and people are starting to come around to seeing this.  Harden was a very good player in his prime.  An MVP level player.  First team all NBA level.  But because of his style of play, he did not experience the level of team success that other top players do.  All this is also true of Luka. 

The only difference is that this playoff run for Luka was a spot light for his short comings.  I am not surprised, I have been noting this about Luka all along.  Many here also see it, but for the more causal national fans, this finals run has changed their impression of Luka.  The level of coverage means the media is talking about it more.

I think the biggest issue with Luka is conditioning.  He plays decent defense in the 1st quarter (when he isn't pacing himself), but he is gassed by the 4th.  I don't think that his defense is about lack of ability.  The other thing with Luka is the ball domination (again, like Harden).  Who is going to want to play with him?  He has had good players on the team but they all end up leaving.  Harden never figured out how to play any other way.  Will see with Luka.

Luka has had 4 playoffs runs, and has the best player in the team. Of those 4, he bounced in first round 1 time at 20 years of age against the #2 seeded Clippers. Next year the same thing against the same team in 7 games, 4th seeded then but more than likely as a result of injuries than talent.

He's gone to the playoffs 2 more times. The result? Western conference finals (where they defeated the #1 seed and lost to the eventual champions) and now in the finals.

And in just about every series he's played in the playoffs he's excelled and performed. I get knocking on Luka for his defense, but the proof is in the pudding that he has this team winning and winning when it matters which is the playoffs... and at the very least giving you consistently great offensive performances and incredible clutch moments.

In his short career, can't fathom putting Harden in the same sentence as far as the playoff goes.

Not that I disagree with your takes on things Luka is doing wrong or need to improve on, his conditioning etc., but as far as his impact on the floor it's overselling what his defense deficiencies have meant vs what his offensive proficiency has meant.

People were predicting Luka would be the face of the league after these playoffs. He is a shot maker. His game is a carbon copy of James Harden. Right down to the step backs, the flops, the travels and the body build.

Neither plays defense. Harden's best team also ran into the Warriors in the WCF in 2018 and that GS team was a machine. Took them to 7 games. Averaged 29 points a game and didn't have Paul who was hurt and in and out of the lineup.

Let's not forget that Harden was as much a dominant offensive player in his prime. I would absolutely put him up against current Luka.

Re: Luka is taking a beating...
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2024, 12:28:31 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Luka is very much comparable to Harden, and people are starting to come around to seeing this.  Harden was a very good player in his prime.  An MVP level player.  First team all NBA level.  But because of his style of play, he did not experience the level of team success that other top players do.  All this is also true of Luka. 

The only difference is that this playoff run for Luka was a spot light for his short comings.  I am not surprised, I have been noting this about Luka all along.  Many here also see it, but for the more causal national fans, this finals run has changed their impression of Luka.  The level of coverage means the media is talking about it more.

I think the biggest issue with Luka is conditioning.  He plays decent defense in the 1st quarter (when he isn't pacing himself), but he is gassed by the 4th.  I don't think that his defense is about lack of ability.  The other thing with Luka is the ball domination (again, like Harden).  Who is going to want to play with him?  He has had good players on the team but they all end up leaving.  Harden never figured out how to play any other way.  Will see with Luka.

Luka has had 4 playoffs runs, and has the best player in the team. Of those 4, he bounced in first round 1 time at 20 years of age against the #2 seeded Clippers. Next year the same thing against the same team in 7 games, 4th seeded then but more than likely as a result of injuries than talent.

He's gone to the playoffs 2 more times. The result? Western conference finals (where they defeated the #1 seed and lost to the eventual champions) and now in the finals.

And in just about every series he's played in the playoffs he's excelled and performed. I get knocking on Luka for his defense, but the proof is in the pudding that he has this team winning and winning when it matters which is the playoffs... and at the very least giving you consistently great offensive performances and incredible clutch moments.

In his short career, can't fathom putting Harden in the same sentence as far as the playoff goes.

Not that I disagree with your takes on things Luka is doing wrong or need to improve on, his conditioning etc., but as far as his impact on the floor it's overselling what his defense deficiencies have meant vs what his offensive proficiency has meant.

People were predicting Luka would be the face of the league after these playoffs. He is a shot maker. His game is a carbon copy of James Harden. Right down to the step backs, the flops, the travels and the body build.

Neither plays defense. Harden's best team also ran into the Warriors in the WCF in 2018 and that GS team was a machine. Took them to 7 games. Averaged 29 points a game and didn't have Paul who was hurt and in and out of the lineup.

Let's not forget that Harden was as much a dominant offensive player in his prime. I would absolutely put him up against current Luka.

He shot 41% from the field in that series, with about 5 TOs a game, and 25% from beyond the arc. He had some great games in that series, and quite a few duds as well... which is the point. He has widely been inconsistent his career in the playoffs. A volume shooter like that, not performing well is not a good recipe to have. And he's been anointed by many as one of the most gifted offensive weapons in the history of the NBA. To your point though, Chris Paul going down that year will forever be once of those what could have been moments. Houston was the #1 seed after all. Granted, those Warriors teams were historic, but you never know.

Without looking at advance metrics though, I'll take the fat Luka and his 46% career playoffs shooting percentage with 31 points per game without 2 thoughts about it.  Playoff wise, they're just not comparable career vs career. Who knows what Luka will do in the future, but so far he's excelling and what he does. Harden, was simply a roller coaster and often just at the bottom of it. In my view, they simply are not comparable at all.

You can go by style of play all you want, etc., but performance matters. Consistency matters. In the end, Luka has shown he's a superior shot maker, more clutch, more mentally tough... and in the playoffs? No comparison.

Re: Luka is taking a beating...
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2024, 12:38:24 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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Please! This is r just absurd. Without him the Mavs aren?t even sniffing the playoffs, much less the finals. Agreed he?s not a very good defender and watching him constantly argue with the refs is tough. But to blame him for the Mavs being down 3-0 is ridiculous in my opinion. Irving did nothing the first 2 games. No one else on the team has stepped up.
I would say the only reason the games were close at all was do to Luka.
Don?t get me wrong. He?s not my favorite player. He needs to lose weight. He needs not to stay back arguing with the refs while the other team goes down the court for a 5 on 4. I also noticed on numerous occasions he has been stripped and just stood there as the Celtics go down the court for a layup. But, tell me a player that can?t improve?

It is true, he is not the sole reason they are down 3-0. He needs a better supporting cast that makes up for his defensive shortcomings and another high volume scorer to take the load off him so he can rest a bit more during a game to keep him fresh for the 4th quarter. I could see him improving his conditioning too. His offensive game is incredible. Improve the supporting cast and conditioning, and he will be facing us in the finals a few more times before all is said and done. I look forward to the matchups with him and that young beast in San Antonio eventually.

Re: Luka is taking a beating...
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2024, 12:46:43 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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He is now reaching the point in his life that his body needs attention , his youth of endless energy and slowing of metabolism is starting to show .  It takes an adult to understand this , he has been a diva since 14 year of age.  Now the work begins !  See how Jason and Jalen work their bodies and strive to improve . We?ll see if he can maintain  his body ?.does he want to put the work in?   He looks like a fat drunk party boy to me.

 

Re: Luka is taking a beating...
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2024, 03:31:17 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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He is now reaching the point in his life that his body needs attention , his youth of endless energy and slowing of metabolism is starting to show .  It takes an adult to understand this , he has been a diva since 14 year of age.  Now the work begins !  See how Jason and Jalen work their bodies and strive to improve . We?ll see if he can maintain  his body ?.does he want to put the work in?   He looks like a fat drunk party boy to me.

Haha, yeah, fat drunk party boy who shoots like Bird! LOL.