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Retired numbers...
« on: June 11, 2024, 10:06:23 AM »

Online Roy H.

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This discussion came up in the Al Horford thread.  It was proposed that the Celtics shouldn't retire numbers anymore, but rather should simply honor guys by putting their names in the rafters (i.e., "Loscy").  I proposed a two-tier system, where true legends get their numbers retired, but other Celtics greats get their name.

Things to discuss in this thread:

1.  If you could re-do history, whose numbers would remain retired?  Who would be honored via their name only?

2.  Which current or past Celtics who aren't in the rafters belong up there, either via number or name?

For me...

Retired Numbers:

#0 (Tatum)
#00 (Parish)
#6 (Russell)
#7 (J. Brown)
#14 (Cousy)
#15 (Tommy)
#17 (Havlicek)
#18 (Cowens)
#24 (Sam Jones)
#32 (McHale)
#33 (Bird)
#34 (Pierce)

Names In the Rafters:

Red
W. Brown
KG
DJ
JoJo
Reggie
Max
KC
Ramsey
Macauley
Sharman
Nelson
Sanders
Ray
Danny
Horford
Mike Gorman
Johnny Most

I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out.  I'm mixed on Rondo.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 02:24:41 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2024, 10:43:44 AM »

Offline jbpats

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I think I agree with you for the most part but Reggie Lewis absolutely needs to be retired

Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2024, 10:43:53 AM »

Online BitterJim

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I like that mix. I wasn't a fan of KG getting his number retired (despite him being my favorite Celtic in that era) since he wasn't here for that long, but a second tier with names retired would make a lot of sense to me. It makes the debate about Ray a lot easier, too, because he deserves something but not a full jersey retirement.
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Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2024, 10:45:11 AM »

Online BitterJim

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I think I agree with you for the most part but Reggie Lewis absolutely needs to be retired

That was my first thought too, but if we were going to let KD where it had he signed in 2016 then it isn't on the same level as, say, #6
I'm bitter.

Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2024, 10:52:13 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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I think Russell and Bird are the only definites; maybe Cousy and Havlicek too; everyone else it should be just their names in my opinion.

Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2024, 11:04:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I feel you need to be the best player over a whole bunch of years, have real longevity with the team, and win to have your number retired.

So retired numbers would be (in order of age)

Cousy
Russell
Cowens
Bird
Pierce
Tatum (if he stays a few more years)

That is it.

To get your name up there, you must be a key contributor over a decade (except for kg and ray), and be on a winner

Sharman
Macauley
Sam
Hondo
Jo Jo
Parish
McHale
Lewis
KG
Ray
Horford
Brown


The most difficult to leave off were DJ, Rondo, and Tommy. Though I feel like Tommy could get up there as a contributor as well as a player, especially without a number.



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Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2024, 11:25:54 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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We?re running out of numbers

Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2024, 11:44:20 AM »

Offline bdm860

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Once you create that 2nd tier, my bar gets lowered a lot.

My unofficial threshold to be honored would be something like: key and/or highly recognizable contributor to winning teams who represented Celtics basketball (whatever that means).  When I think of the team during a specific era, is this player one of the first players I think of?  When I think of that player, do I think of him winning as a Celtic? 

I'd be okay with Walton (even though less than 2 years in total games played), Ray, Rondo, Isaiah, Smart, Horford in that 2nd tier.   When I think of any of them, I think of them winning with the Celtics.  When I think of the Celtics during their eras, I think of them.

Tiny Archibald, when I think of him I don't think of the Celtics, when I think of the 80's Celtics, I don't think of him (well before my time though).  But he was a 3x All-Star with the C's and won a ring.  He's in.

Borderline: Antoine. Individual success with 3 All-Star appearances, and more playoff wins as a Celtic than Isaiah, but when I think of him, I don't think of Celtics winning (although I do think of him giving Pierce that speech to spur the greatest 4th quarter comeback in playoff history).  Also don't associate his style/image with "Celtics basketball".

With my low bar, there can be a lot of "well what about him?"  If Walton is in as 6th man, what about Posey.  If Rondo is in, what about Perk.  If Smart is in, what about Bradley.  What about Celtic All-Stars like Kyrie or Kemba?  They're all some combination of not here long enough (Posey), not memorable enough (Posey, Perk, Bradley), not associated with winning (even if contributing to playoff runs) (Kyrie, Kemba, Bradley), not properly portraying the image of "Celtic basketball" (Kyrie).

Low bar to be honored, very high bar to get in that first tier though.  Moranis's first tier looks good to me, though Roy's more generous one looks good too, ha.

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Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2024, 12:41:32 PM »

Offline otherdave

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This discussion came up in the Al Horford thread.  It was proposed that the Celtics shouldn't retire numbers anymore, but rather should simply honor guys by putting their names in the rafters (i.e., "Loscy").  I proposed a two-tier system, where true legends get their numbers retired, but other Celtics greats get their name.

Things to discuss in this thread:

1.  If you could re-do history, whose numbers would remain retired?  Who would be honored via their name only?

2.  Which current or past Celtics who aren't in the rafters belong up there, either via number or name?

For me...

Retired Numbers:

#0 (Tatum)
#00 (Parish)
#6 (Russell)
#7 (J. Brown)
#14 (Cousy)
#15 (Tommy)
#17 (Havlicek)
#18 (Cowens)
#24 (Sam Jones)
#32 (McHale)
#33 (Bird)
#34 (Pierce)

Names In the Rafters:

Red
W. Brown
KG
DJ
JoJo
Reggie
Max
KC
Ramsey
Macauley
Sharman
Nelson
Sanders
Ray
Danny
Horford

I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out.  I'm mixed on Rondo.

This looks great to me!  My only change would be to retire JoJo's number - he belongs up there with Hondo and Cowens.  He has the longevity with the team and was part of the 1970's big three that won 2 rings.

Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2024, 12:55:16 PM »

Offline boscel33

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This discussion came up in the Al Horford thread.  It was proposed that the Celtics shouldn't retire numbers anymore, but rather should simply honor guys by putting their names in the rafters (i.e., "Loscy").  I proposed a two-tier system, where true legends get their numbers retired, but other Celtics greats get their name.

Things to discuss in this thread:

1.  If you could re-do history, whose numbers would remain retired?  Who would be honored via their name only?

2.  Which current or past Celtics who aren't in the rafters belong up there, either via number or name?

For me...

Retired Numbers:

#0 (Tatum)
#00 (Parish)
#6 (Russell)
#7 (J. Brown)
#14 (Cousy)
#15 (Tommy)
#17 (Havlicek)
#18 (Cowens)
#24 (Sam Jones)
#32 (McHale)
#33 (Bird)
#34 (Pierce)

Names In the Rafters:

Red
W. Brown
KG
DJ
JoJo
Reggie
Max
KC
Ramsey
Macauley
Sharman
Nelson
Sanders
Ray
Danny
Horford

I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out.  I'm mixed on Rondo.

Well, I'll chime in since I think I was the one who started it.  Great proposal, I question (can't believe I am) Parrish and McHale.  I loved them and was a 17yo when they came to the C's, but are they generational.  I think yes, but some may not.  I mean, Max was a two time champ and Finals MVP for the C's, and I agree where you have him.
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Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2024, 01:18:37 PM »

Offline jbpats

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I think I agree with you for the most part but Reggie Lewis absolutely needs to be retired

That was my first thought too, but if we were going to let KD where it had he signed in 2016 then it isn't on the same level as, say, #6

Were we tho? I'm not sure if that was actually ever a consideration or just another media fabrication/assumption. My guess it was the latter.

Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2024, 01:20:16 PM »

Offline Redz

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This discussion came up in the Al Horford thread.  It was proposed that the Celtics shouldn't retire numbers anymore, but rather should simply honor guys by putting their names in the rafters (i.e., "Loscy").  I proposed a two-tier system, where true legends get their numbers retired, but other Celtics greats get their name.

Things to discuss in this thread:

1.  If you could re-do history, whose numbers would remain retired?  Who would be honored via their name only?

2.  Which current or past Celtics who aren't in the rafters belong up there, either via number or name?

For me...

Retired Numbers:

#0 (Tatum)
#00 (Parish)
#6 (Russell)
#7 (J. Brown)
#14 (Cousy)
#15 (Tommy)
#17 (Havlicek)
#18 (Cowens)
#24 (Sam Jones)
#32 (McHale)
#33 (Bird)
#34 (Pierce)

Names In the Rafters:

Red
W. Brown
KG
DJ
JoJo
Reggie
Max
KC
Ramsey
Macauley
Sharman
Nelson
Sanders
Ray
Danny
Horford

I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out.  I'm mixed on Rondo.

Well, I'll chime in since I think I was the one who started it.  Great proposal, I question (can't believe I am) Parrish and McHale.  I loved them and was a 17yo when they came to the C's, but are they generational.  I think yes, but some may not.  I mean, Max was a two time champ and Finals MVP for the C's, and I agree where you have him.

I?d love JoJobup a tier


Yup

Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2024, 01:47:21 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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This discussion came up in the Al Horford thread.  It was proposed that the Celtics shouldn't retire numbers anymore, but rather should simply honor guys by putting their names in the rafters (i.e., "Loscy").  I proposed a two-tier system, where true legends get their numbers retired, but other Celtics greats get their name.

Things to discuss in this thread:

1.  If you could re-do history, whose numbers would remain retired?  Who would be honored via their name only?

2.  Which current or past Celtics who aren't in the rafters belong up there, either via number or name?

For me...

Retired Numbers:

#0 (Tatum)
#00 (Parish)
#6 (Russell)
#7 (J. Brown)
#14 (Cousy)
#15 (Tommy)
#17 (Havlicek)
#18 (Cowens)
#24 (Sam Jones)
#32 (McHale)
#33 (Bird)
#34 (Pierce)

Names In the Rafters:

Red
W. Brown
KG
DJ
JoJo
Reggie
Max
KC
Ramsey
Macauley
Sharman
Nelson
Sanders
Ray
Danny
Horford

I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out.  I'm mixed on Rondo.

Keep retiring numbers and segregating who goes into the rafters will lead to more controversies than anything, and not going up with the "legends" will be considered slights by many.

So I don't jive with that suggestion. I rather just not retire a number than to create a 2 tier system.

Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2024, 02:10:12 PM »

Online BitterJim

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I think I agree with you for the most part but Reggie Lewis absolutely needs to be retired

That was my first thought too, but if we were going to let KD where it had he signed in 2016 then it isn't on the same level as, say, #6

Were we tho? I'm not sure if that was actually ever a consideration or just another media fabrication/assumption. My guess it was the latter.

Looking back it was his mother giving permission so I don't think we ever heard directly from the team, but ifshe already said it was fine and Durant asked the team I'm sure they would have (not unretired it, just made an exception)

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2016/06/29/reggie-lewis/
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Re: Retired numbers...
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2024, 02:23:05 PM »

Online Roy H.

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This discussion came up in the Al Horford thread.  It was proposed that the Celtics shouldn't retire numbers anymore, but rather should simply honor guys by putting their names in the rafters (i.e., "Loscy").  I proposed a two-tier system, where true legends get their numbers retired, but other Celtics greats get their name.

Things to discuss in this thread:

1.  If you could re-do history, whose numbers would remain retired?  Who would be honored via their name only?

2.  Which current or past Celtics who aren't in the rafters belong up there, either via number or name?

For me...

Retired Numbers:

#0 (Tatum)
#00 (Parish)
#6 (Russell)
#7 (J. Brown)
#14 (Cousy)
#15 (Tommy)
#17 (Havlicek)
#18 (Cowens)
#24 (Sam Jones)
#32 (McHale)
#33 (Bird)
#34 (Pierce)

Names In the Rafters:

Red
W. Brown
KG
DJ
JoJo
Reggie
Max
KC
Ramsey
Macauley
Sharman
Nelson
Sanders
Ray
Danny
Horford

I'm sure I'm leaving somebody out.  I'm mixed on Rondo.

Well, I'll chime in since I think I was the one who started it.  Great proposal, I question (can't believe I am) Parrish and McHale.  I loved them and was a 17yo when they came to the C's, but are they generational.  I think yes, but some may not.  I mean, Max was a two time champ and Finals MVP for the C's, and I agree where you have him.

They were both named Top 50 players last time, so I put them both in there.  I'd have McHale above Parish.


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