Does last years team without Smart and with Holiday win last two years?

[liam]

Does this Celtics team with Jrue instead of Smart win the Championship the last two years? Jrue seems to be all the pluses of Smart without all the negatives. He plays in control and seems to almost always make the right play. Oh, and he can shoot. There are some mistakes in there for sure but he's not up and down from play to play. Jrue is consistent. I loved Smart but he drove me crazy at least half of every game.

[liam]

This a praise Jrue thread more than a bash Marcus thread... Marcus gave it all he had while he was here.

[ozgod]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

[liam]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

They needed more talent around them and now they have it. I think we'd have at least one ring out of those two years with Holiday. I'm not even counting KP.

[Kernewek]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

Agree - but I don't believe that this factors in KP at all, just a Jrue for Smart swap.

[ozgod]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

Agree - but I don't believe that this factors in KP at all, just a Jrue for Smart swap.

I get it, I was just saying that I don't think it so much mattered who we hypothetically added last year, I didn't think they were quite ready. They needed to go through those disappointments to become what the are today.

Now if the question is would they have been better with a Jrue for Marcus swap, I think the answer is yes. But maybe not enough to win a championship, although Jrue might have accelerated the maturing process with his unselfishness.

[jambr380]

Marcus Smart had an excellent playoff run last season, so I'm not sure where this is coming from.

Also, Marcus was known for exactly what Jrue did last night - big plays with the game on the line.
And we had considerably more difficult runs the last two years than we have this year.

Jrue has been awesome, but it's more that he filled a huge hole in our line-up with the trade of Marcus than it is him being exceptionally better imo. I love what Jrue's brought the last 6 games (as any Celtics fan would), but don't go look at his first 7 games of these playoffs in terms of offensive production.

That being said, we've needed Jrue's production and steady hand lately. He's obviously been a huge pick up for us.

[liam]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

Agree - but I don't believe that this factors in KP at all, just a Jrue for Smart swap.

I get it, I was just saying that I don't think it so much mattered who we hypothetically added last year, I didn't think they were quite ready. They needed to go through those disappointments to become what the are today.

Now if the question is would they have been better with a Jrue for Marcus swap, I think the answer is yes. But maybe not enough to win a championship, although Jrue might have accelerated the maturing process with his unselfishness.

But Jrue was ready and I think he would've kept them settled. Vets make a lot of difference in the playoffs especially vets that have won it all. Jrue is like a glue and crack filler like you'd buy at the hardware store.

[celticinorlando]

I look at one play. Smart could have made a similar steal like Jrue made...but Smart would have pulled up from 3 or gotten fouled and missed the free throws.

Jrue makes the right play. Not flashy but its often the right winning play.

I felt all season that his value would be really seen in the playoffs. He is playing much more aggressive and I see this team looking to him to lead.

[jambr380]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

They needed more talent around them and now they have it. I think we'd have at least one ring out of those two years with Holiday. I'm not even counting KP.

Not even counting KP - what are you on here? Derrick White was abysmal with his shooting in 2022 and Tatum forgot how to do everything except make 3s in the Finals.

Last year, Smart was awesome, but Brogdon went down and then Tatum went down and we weren't able to recover. We were facing MUCH tougher competition - this can't be overstated. This has been an absolute cakewalk so far and it looks like we are even going to be gifted with the 5th seeded Mavericks. I'm sure Luka will go down in game 2, letting us waltz to a Title.

There's a lot of luck that goes into winning a championship - something that's far from a given at this point. So far, this is the year we have finally been blessed by the leprechauns

[celticinorlando]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

They needed more talent around them and now they have it. I think we'd have at least one ring out of those two years with Holiday. I'm not even counting KP.

Not even counting KP - what are you on here? Derrick White was abysmal with his shooting in 2022 and Tatum forgot how to do everything except make 3s in the Finals.

Last year, Smart was awesome, but Brogdon went down and then Tatum went down and we weren't able to recover. We were facing MUCH tougher competition - this can't be overstated. This has been an absolute cakewalk so far and it looks like we are even going to be gifted with the 5th seeded Mavericks. I'm sure Luka will go down in game 2, letting us waltz to a Title.

There's a lot of luck that goes into winning a championship - something that's far from a given at this point. So far, this is the year we have finally been blessed by the leprechauns

I saw an interview recently with Jimmy Butler from at the end of the season and they asked him what it takes to win in the playoffs? I hate Butler but thought his answer was great.

He said you need three things: You have to have your team stay relatively healthy. You need your star players to step up in those star player moments. You need a lot of luck.

Boston is finally getting those three things (other than KP being hurt).

[jambr380]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

They needed more talent around them and now they have it. I think we'd have at least one ring out of those two years with Holiday. I'm not even counting KP.

Not even counting KP - what are you on here? Derrick White was abysmal with his shooting in 2022 and Tatum forgot how to do everything except make 3s in the Finals.

Last year, Smart was awesome, but Brogdon went down and then Tatum went down and we weren't able to recover. We were facing MUCH tougher competition - this can't be overstated. This has been an absolute cakewalk so far and it looks like we are even going to be gifted with the 5th seeded Mavericks. I'm sure Luka will go down in game 2, letting us waltz to a Title.

There's a lot of luck that goes into winning a championship - something that's far from a given at this point. So far, this is the year we have finally been blessed by the leprechauns

I saw an interview recently with Jimmy Butler from at the end of the season and they asked him what it takes to win in the playoffs? I hate Butler but thought his answer was great.

He said you need three things: You have to have your team stay relatively healthy. You need your star players to step up in those star player moments. You need a lot of luck.

Boston is finally getting those three things (other than KP being hurt).

Very good point. And I am not saying this stuff to disparage Jrue. He has been worth every penny and we've needed him to step up. I think a lot of us were thinking the 'playoff Jrue' stuff might actually be true after the first few games, but he has blown that whole narrative into pieces. He's a winning player who makes winning plays.

I just absolutely hate when people trash a player who's left just to prop up a player who is now here. People didn't call Smart our heart and soul for nothing. People were devastated when we traded him - we have the receipts. Both players can make a difference, both players can be winners.

I'm still out here defending Antoine Walker as more than just a 3pt chucker. And we traded him for freaking Raef LaFrentz.

[liam]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

They needed more talent around them and now they have it. I think we'd have at least one ring out of those two years with Holiday. I'm not even counting KP.

Not even counting KP - what are you on here? Derrick White was abysmal with his shooting in 2022 and Tatum forgot how to do everything except make 3s in the Finals.

Last year, Smart was awesome, but Brogdon went down and then Tatum went down and we weren't able to recover. We were facing MUCH tougher competition - this can't be overstated. This has been an absolute cakewalk so far and it looks like we are even going to be gifted with the 5th seeded Mavericks. I'm sure Luka will go down in game 2, letting us waltz to a Title.

There's a lot of luck that goes into winning a championship - something that's far from a given at this point. So far, this is the year we have finally been blessed by the leprechauns

I saw an interview recently with Jimmy Butler from at the end of the season and they asked him what it takes to win in the playoffs? I hate Butler but thought his answer was great.

He said you need three things: You have to have your team stay relatively healthy. You need your star players to step up in those star player moments. You need a lot of luck.

Boston is finally getting those three things (other than KP being hurt).

Very good point. And I am not saying this stuff to disparage Jrue. He has been worth every penny and we've needed him to step up. I think a lot of us were thinking the 'playoff Jrue' stuff might actually be true after the first few games, but he has blown that whole narrative into pieces. He's a winning player who makes winning plays.

I just absolutely hate when people trash a player who's left just to prop up a player who is now here. People didn't call Smart our heart and soul for nothing. People were devastated when we traded him - we have the receipts. Both players can make a difference, both players can be winners.

I'm still out here defending Antoine Walker as more than just a 3pt chucker. And we traded him for freaking Raef LaFrentz.

I'm not trying trash Smart I loved him as a pick and what he brought. He just never seemed stable. That's part of what makes him make those great plays and then some really bad ones... He shot way more than Jrue cause he was left open. It was part of team's strategy just to not guard him. Smart is a 32% 3 point shooter, Jure 37% and 42% this year... Jrue with 1.8 TOs this year Smart 3.1. It's not just those stats it's the dependability. I feel like Jrue isn't going to hurt you in a game. Smart will hurt and help in equal measures. I assume he'll be coming off the bench for the Grizz next year and that's the best place for him. Play him when he's running hot and sit him when he's not. Again I'm not trying to bash I just think that Holiday is a big step up from Smart. If we had Smart coming off our bench in these playoffs I'd be thrilled. I just don't think he's a championship starter.

[cman88]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

They needed more talent around them and now they have it. I think we'd have at least one ring out of those two years with Holiday. I'm not even counting KP.

Not even counting KP - what are you on here? Derrick White was abysmal with his shooting in 2022 and Tatum forgot how to do everything except make 3s in the Finals.

Last year, Smart was awesome, but Brogdon went down and then Tatum went down and we weren't able to recover. We were facing MUCH tougher competition - this can't be overstated. This has been an absolute cakewalk so far and it looks like we are even going to be gifted with the 5th seeded Mavericks. I'm sure Luka will go down in game 2, letting us waltz to a Title.

There's a lot of luck that goes into winning a championship - something that's far from a given at this point. So far, this is the year we have finally been blessed by the leprechauns

I saw an interview recently with Jimmy Butler from at the end of the season and they asked him what it takes to win in the playoffs? I hate Butler but thought his answer was great.

He said you need three things: You have to have your team stay relatively healthy. You need your star players to step up in those star player moments. You need a lot of luck.

Boston is finally getting those three things (other than KP being hurt).

Very good point. And I am not saying this stuff to disparage Jrue. He has been worth every penny and we've needed him to step up. I think a lot of us were thinking the 'playoff Jrue' stuff might actually be true after the first few games, but he has blown that whole narrative into pieces. He's a winning player who makes winning plays.

I just absolutely hate when people trash a player who's left just to prop up a player who is now here. People didn't call Smart our heart and soul for nothing. People were devastated when we traded him - we have the receipts. Both players can make a difference, both players can be winners.

I'm still out here defending Antoine Walker as more than just a 3pt chucker. And we traded him for freaking Raef LaFrentz.

taking nothing away from smart, I think Jrue is a better 3 pt shooter and has a better feel for the game. some of it may just come with just acceping his role more than smart did.

At times, I think smart being the longest tenured guy here was a detriment to him because he viewed himself as more than a "role player" where Jrue embraces it being the new guy coming in.

[liam]

I don't think they were quite ready last season, even had we added Jrue and KP...they needed that extra year of seasoning. As did Joe. Coming short in 2022 and 2023 helped impress upon them the need for shared sacrifice that has been evident this season, especially with the Jays. Much less focused on individual point totals and achievements and more on making their teammates better.

They needed more talent around them and now they have it. I think we'd have at least one ring out of those two years with Holiday. I'm not even counting KP.

Not even counting KP - what are you on here? Derrick White was abysmal with his shooting in 2022 and Tatum forgot how to do everything except make 3s in the Finals.

Last year, Smart was awesome, but Brogdon went down and then Tatum went down and we weren't able to recover. We were facing MUCH tougher competition - this can't be overstated. This has been an absolute cakewalk so far and it looks like we are even going to be gifted with the 5th seeded Mavericks. I'm sure Luka will go down in game 2, letting us waltz to a Title.

There's a lot of luck that goes into winning a championship - something that's far from a given at this point. So far, this is the year we have finally been blessed by the leprechauns

I saw an interview recently with Jimmy Butler from at the end of the season and they asked him what it takes to win in the playoffs? I hate Butler but thought his answer was great.

He said you need three things: You have to have your team stay relatively healthy. You need your star players to step up in those star player moments. You need a lot of luck.

Boston is finally getting those three things (other than KP being hurt).

Very good point. And I am not saying this stuff to disparage Jrue. He has been worth every penny and we've needed him to step up. I think a lot of us were thinking the 'playoff Jrue' stuff might actually be true after the first few games, but he has blown that whole narrative into pieces. He's a winning player who makes winning plays.

I just absolutely hate when people trash a player who's left just to prop up a player who is now here. People didn't call Smart our heart and soul for nothing. People were devastated when we traded him - we have the receipts. Both players can make a difference, both players can be winners.

I'm still out here defending Antoine Walker as more than just a 3pt chucker. And we traded him for freaking Raef LaFrentz.

taking nothing away from smart, I think Jrue is a better 3 pt shooter and has a better feel for the game. some of it may just come with just acceping his role more than smart did.

At times, I think smart being the longest tenured guy here was a detriment to him because he viewed himself as more than a "role player" where Jrue embraces it being the new guy coming in.

It's a similar reason why Antoine had to go. Antoine thought it was his team, when Pierce was clearly better from the get go. Toine could shoot you in or out of any game. Antoine finally got a ring and I hope the same for Marcus. Marcus needs a coach like Pop or Spoelstra he didn't;'t have that. Ime was better for Smart. I think Taylor Jenkins will get the best out of Smart if Smart accepts his role on a team stuffed with talent.