Grant's honeymoon in Dallas is over

[obnoxiousmime]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/18ts917/grant_williams_in_his_last_22_games_72_pts_36_rbs/

I don't know if anybody's mentioned this here yet, but Grant lost his starter's job and is drawing the ire of Mavs fans. It's a lot of the same complaints, that he tries to do too much on offense not in his skillset, can't rebound, is undersized for his position, and can't guard on the perimeter vs. quick guards and wings. To make matters worse, his 3 pt, shooting has been bad recently which was the one thing he usually does well.

Not to mention, he got into an incident with Devin Booker recently on Christmas where, after a hard foul where Booker swiped at his head (on a drive Grant clearly traveled on) he proceeded to lie there for like a minute trying to trigger a flagrant review I suppose. On the next defensive possession Grant pushed him on a screen and just proceeded to hold onto him before the refs and coaches separated them. Now, I know Booker is one of the game's most annoying trash talkers, but it reminded me of how these things just seem to happen to Grant. I honestly think he likes the attention (remember, this was a big nationally televised Christmas game) even though he's clearly not good enough as a player to be constantly mixing it up with stars like Booker and Butler. Remember how nobody on the team backed up Grant publicly when he went at Butler?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0noaQmfzII

I was a proponent of keeping Grant if only for bench depth and a tradable contract, but maybe it just wasn't going to work. He was mentally checked out last season and clearly Joe didn't like his limited offensive game or preference to pumpfake/attack closeouts instead of just do what he's on the floor to do, which is shoot the 3 or pass it away. I think he'll eventually be more disciplined, but he might have just been too young and immature to accept a limited role. Hopefully this Dallas experience teaches him some humility and makes him realize he's nowhere near good enough as a player to be making the game about him.

[SparzWizard]

Grant soured on me after blowing those two free-throws to the Cavs last season. He yaps too much and can't back it up. Pathetic.

Glad he's the Mavericks' problem now

[ozgod]

GWill auditioning for the Draymond role in the NBA.

[SHAQATTACK]

Da Big  Baby 2.0

Meh 

[cman88]

he's a roleplayer who sometimes thinks he's more than hes worth.

sometimes celtics fans fall too in love with role players. sure id like him here to throw at Giannis. but the way some fans were lamenting his loss. I mean with the tax paying $40million for this...

8.8ppg 3.8rpg on 41.7% and 38.1% from 3. not bad numbers. but not worth that...and he would be averaging less with us.

[ozgod]

he's a roleplayer who sometimes thinks he's more than hes worth.

sometimes celtics fans fall too in love with role players. sure id like him here to throw at Giannis. but the way some fans were lamenting his loss. I mean with the tax paying $40million for this...

8.8ppg 3.8rpg on 41.7% and 38.1% from 3. not bad numbers. but not worth that...and he would be averaging less with us.

Actually with the tax, he would cost somewhere closer to $60m all in. For a No.7 guy.

[Roy H.]

I think Grant is a good guy who is in the NBA in large part because of his self-confidence.  But, that high opinion of himself can rub some the wrong way.  I think starting in the 2022 Finals, things reached a bit of a breaking point.  He started to try to promote himself with the Draymond thing.  Then, he got in Joe's doghouse last year and didn't react well to it.  It soured the team and a lot of fans on him.

But, I think his teammates liked him here.  Tatum certainly did.  I know the players went to Joe and lobbied for Grant to be reinserted into the rotation.

I didn't understand the fascination that other teams had with Grant in free agency; my thoughts now are the same as they were then:

I don't understand why a rebuilding / lower rung team would want to give a big chunk of its flexibility for a 7th or 8th man.  It doesn't mean it won't happen, but it would be a poor decision.  They're better off renting their cap space or saving it to re-sign their own players, rather than give up 10% - 15% of their cap to an undersized backup PF.

I mean, Grant ranks 164th in scoring out of 255 qualifying players.  He's 91st in rebounding.  He's 92nd in 3PTM.  And yet, he wants to be paid like a third starter.

I wanted the Celtics to overpay Grant for one year, allowing him to hit unrestricted free agency next season.  But, Grant was smart to take the money.  He's the same player he's always been:  a bench player who gives you about 11 / 6 per 36 minutes with above-average defense.  He's not a core guy.

[Vermont Green]

This was as of Dec 30:

Grant Williams is cratering.  In the last 15 games, DAL is +135 without him and -123 when he is on the court.  I know that on/off and +/- stats don't tell the whole story, but what is going on?

I expected some issue, that Grant is more suited as a primary bench guy than a primary starter, that he would have a hard time playing to his contract, but this is a huge slump for an extended period of time.

He has gone from shooting 49.2% from 3 through 12 games to more like 32% for the last 15 games, 26% in the last 11 games.  It is like a switch flipped in his head or something.  He is now nothing more than a bad contract.  He may recover some, but he is nothing more than a fringe starter, good bench guy.  Grant and Dallas are finding that out together.  He can hit 3s only if he is left alone in the corner.  He should not take any other 3s.  I suspect that is what led to his bad shooting.  He needs to remember who he is exactly, play within that, and he will be fine, overpaid, but fine.

[Who]

Grant has never been a good fit in Dallas. He isn't athletic enough to be a pairing with Luka at forward. Luka needs a fast athletic forward next to him who can not only cover tough individual matchups but also provide cover in team defense. Grant is a stopper but he is not someone who can cover ground on team D. He isn't quick enough.

Grant's long term future there in Dallas will be as a bench player playing 20-25mpg.

[Who]

I have been enjoying Dallas' recent lineups without Grant and without Kyrie. They are playing two big guards next to Luka and a quick forward next to Luka.

G: Exum
G: Timmy Hardaway / Josh Green
F: Luka
F: Derrick Jones Jr
C: big man in the middle

This is a winning model for Luka. With better individual players of course. But this type of system / model to follow. Big quick rangy defenders 1-4 with a shot blocker at the five. Guys who can protect / insulate Luka on defense.

Jokic has the similar thing going on in Denver. That is how DEN improved their defense enough to to win a Championship. By adding athletic defenders like KCP, Bruce Brown, A Gordon. By having a big PG in J Murray. All these guys help shrink the floor for the slow footed Jokic. Luka needs players who can do the same for him.

Grant is a good one-on-one defender at forward but he is a minus team defender. He just doesn't have the athleticism to cover much ground. That leaves you with two slow footed forwards in Grant and Luka. You have Kyrie who is a small middling (or worse) defender at PG. That is three positions that are problematic on D. It is not a functional plan.

Whatever chance you have at winning with Kyrie & Luka together, the other guys have to cover their weaknesses.

[RodyTur10]

Never lost a minute of sleep with Grant gone. Didn't like him. He was situationally helpfull, but not enough to pay him. With the current team he'd be behind Brissett in the rotation if it were up to me. Cuban has left Doncic with a very poor supporting cast. How long will Doncic comply to this? He's a champion who wants to win.

[Vermont Green]

Never lost a minute of sleep with Grant gone. Didn't like him. He was situationally helpfull, but not enough to pay him. With the current team he'd be behind Brissett in the rotation if it were up to me. Cuban has left Doncic with a very poor supporting cast. How long will Doncic comply to this? He's a champion who wants to win.

His role on the Celtics would be as a bench guy getting 15-20 min/gm (when everyone is healthy), like Pritchard or Hauser.  He would be useful in that role, but you can't pay $52M for that.  He got a chance at a big contract and a starting role.  Good for him.

[Moranis]

Never lost a minute of sleep with Grant gone. Didn't like him. He was situationally helpfull, but not enough to pay him. With the current team he'd be behind Brissett in the rotation if it were up to me. Cuban has left Doncic with a very poor supporting cast. How long will Doncic comply to this? He's a champion who wants to win.

His role on the Celtics would be as a bench guy getting 15-20 min/gm (when everyone is healthy), like Pritchard or Hauser.  He would be useful in that role, but you can't pay $52M for that.  He got a chance at a big contract and a starting role.  Good for him.

Grant is making 12.4 million this year.  That would be 6th on the C's.  Thst seems about right to me.  The C's financial issues in the future stem from 4 guys making over 30 million with Brown at right around 50 million next year and Tatum the year after (and while Jrue drops off, presumably he and White will both be re-signed at essentially swapped value).  Grant's contract would be fine on the C's, it is the 4 or 5 really high priced players ahead of him, that makes his contract difficult.

[footey]

Never lost a minute of sleep with Grant gone. Didn't like him. He was situationally helpfull, but not enough to pay him. With the current team he'd be behind Brissett in the rotation if it were up to me. Cuban has left Doncic with a very poor supporting cast. How long will Doncic comply to this? He's a champion who wants to win.

His role on the Celtics would be as a bench guy getting 15-20 min/gm (when everyone is healthy), like Pritchard or Hauser.  He would be useful in that role, but you can't pay $52M for that.  He got a chance at a big contract and a starting role.  Good for him.

Grant is making 12.4 million this year.  That would be 6th on the C's.  Thst seems about right to me.  The C's financial issues in the future stem from 4 guys making over 30 million with Brown at right around 50 million next year and Tatum the year after (and while Jrue drops off, presumably he and White will both be re-signed at essentially swapped value).  Grant's contract would be fine on the C's, it is the 4 or 5 really high priced players ahead of him, that makes his contract difficult.

I doubt Grant would be getting any decent minutes on this team. Would rather have Hauser them him at this point, and the contracts make it a no brainer. Good move to let him go.

[Vermont Green]

Never lost a minute of sleep with Grant gone. Didn't like him. He was situationally helpfull, but not enough to pay him. With the current team he'd be behind Brissett in the rotation if it were up to me. Cuban has left Doncic with a very poor supporting cast. How long will Doncic comply to this? He's a champion who wants to win.

His role on the Celtics would be as a bench guy getting 15-20 min/gm (when everyone is healthy), like Pritchard or Hauser.  He would be useful in that role, but you can't pay $52M for that.  He got a chance at a big contract and a starting role.  Good for him.

Grant is making 12.4 million this year.  That would be 6th on the C's.  That seems about right to me.  The C's financial issues in the future stem from 4 guys making over 30 million with Brown at right around 50 million next year and Tatum the year after (and while Jrue drops off, presumably he and White will both be re-signed at essentially swapped value).  Grant's contract would be fine on the C's, it is the 4 or 5 really high priced players ahead of him, that makes his contract difficult.

I don't understand this.  Those 5 players that would make more than Grant are all considerably better, all star level or better.  Grant isn't as good as Horford and Horford makes $10M.  Grant may not even be as good (or would play as much) as Pritchard who is set to make $6.7M starting next season, Grant will make about twice that.

Grant is not a horrible contract but he is bad contract, and it doesn't matter that DAL has only 2 contracts >$30M and the Celtics have 4.  They were able to spend for Grant but I am sure are now starting to regret it.  To trade him, they would need to attach picks or take back some other bad contract.