Celtics News

[Phantom255x]

So we didn't duck under the tax?

I think that's right.  Spotrac has us as $1,704,383 over, and we still need to sign one guy within 2 weeks.

=========================

So, breaking this down, *if* we had dumped Tillman, we would be $842,292 under.  But, we would have needed to sign a rookie at $490,128 immediately.

That would have left us at $352,164 in cap space, with a need to sign one more player.  I'm not sure if it's technically allowable to sign a 14th man in two weeks, keep him for 10 days, waive him, sign another 10-day contract in two weeks, etc.  If so, we might have been able to get under the tax.

The other option would have been to get under via Derrick White missing his likely bonuses.  I don't know what they all are, but even if he'd missed $150k in bonuses we likely would have gotten below the tax.

So, the team chose Xavier Tillman over getting below the tax, getting a tax distribution, etc.  I find that interesting.  It shows the value the team places on chemistry.

Kind of puts the lie on Michael Felger ranting on Felger and Mazz yesterday about how the Vuc move was "all about the money, this new ownership doesn't care about contending, they just want to avoid tax" etc etc.

That show has no one who has any clue about NBA and the Celtics lol

[BringToughnessBack]

So we didn't duck under the tax?

I think that's right.  Spotrac has us as $1,704,383 over, and we still need to sign one guy within 2 weeks.

=========================

So, breaking this down, *if* we had dumped Tillman, we would be $842,292 under.  But, we would have needed to sign a rookie at $490,128 immediately.

That would have left us at $352,164 in cap space, with a need to sign one more player.  I'm not sure if it's technically allowable to sign a 14th man in two weeks, keep him for 10 days, waive him, sign another 10-day contract in two weeks, etc.  If so, we might have been able to get under the tax.

The other option would have been to get under via Derrick White missing his likely bonuses.  I don't know what they all are, but even if he'd missed $150k in bonuses we likely would have gotten below the tax.

So, the team chose Xavier Tillman over getting below the tax, getting a tax distribution, etc.  I find that interesting.  It shows the value the team places on chemistry.

Kind of puts the lie on Michael Felger ranting on Felger and Mazz yesterday about how the Vuc move was "all about the money, this new ownership doesn't care about contending, they just want to avoid tax" etc etc.

Yeah, and in reality, if Tatum returns this season, and we have a healthy VUC where injured KP(last year KP) would be, coupled with superstar Brown and company who have progressed to new levels, we are in a great position to contend for a title. An average Tatum returning from injury added to this scappy, very good team led by Brown can definitely come out of the East. Keeping Simons over getting Vuc would not have helped us get to the finals. Getting Vuc definitely pushes us up one notch higher towards the goal.

[Phantom255x]

I guess ducking the tax wasn't a true priority then. Maybe Minott and Boucher just genuinely wanted out and the C's granted them their wish. Boucher got waived too so he can sign anywhere. Minott meanwhile can probably get minutes and more of an opportunity with BKN.

[ozgod]

So we didn't duck under the tax?

I think that's right.  Spotrac has us as $1,704,383 over, and we still need to sign one guy within 2 weeks.

=========================

So, breaking this down, *if* we had dumped Tillman, we would be $842,292 under.  But, we would have needed to sign a rookie at $490,128 immediately.

That would have left us at $352,164 in cap space, with a need to sign one more player.  I'm not sure if it's technically allowable to sign a 14th man in two weeks, keep him for 10 days, waive him, sign another 10-day contract in two weeks, etc.  If so, we might have been able to get under the tax.

The other option would have been to get under via Derrick White missing his likely bonuses.  I don't know what they all are, but even if he'd missed $150k in bonuses we likely would have gotten below the tax.

So, the team chose Xavier Tillman over getting below the tax, getting a tax distribution, etc.  I find that interesting.  It shows the value the team places on chemistry.

Kind of puts the lie on Michael Felger ranting on Felger and Mazz yesterday about how the Vuc move was "all about the money, this new ownership doesn't care about contending, they just want to avoid tax" etc etc.

Yeah, and in reality, if Tatum returns this season, and we have a healthy VUC where injured KP(last year KP) would be, coupled with superstar Brown and company who have progressed to new levels, we are in a great position to contend for a title. An average Tatum returning from injury added to this scappy, very good team led by Brown can definitely come out of the East. Keeping Simons over getting Vuc would not have helped us get to the finals. Getting Vuc definitely pushes us up one notch higher towards the goal.

Yes I've come around to the Vuc signing now, if the goal is for him to play the Al Horford role and give us a two-big look where one of the bigs can space the floor. Kind of like Garza-Queta.

[celticinorlando]

JT (If he returns)
JB
Vuc
White
PP


I have full faith in these guys in the playoffs. That is better than what they had last year closing out games.

Sam ALWAYS disappears in the playoffs

After that it is a bunch of unknowns...Hugo, Queta, Walsh and Baylor....none have done anything when it comes to playoff basketball. That is concerning.

[Vermont Green]

Just trying to follow along.  We started with 14 roster slots signed plus (3) 2-way slots.

BOS subtracted:

Simons, Boucher, Minott, and Tillman   (-4)

Added:

Vucevic, Williams    (+2)

I believe that this gets BOS to exactly $842,292 under the tax with 12 roster players, correct?  Harper could get elevated, and assuming his salary hit would be the same as Williams ($490,128), that gets to $352,164 under with 13 contracts.  Is there any realistic way that the 14th slot could be filled and stay under the tax threshold?  I guess waiting the full 2 weeks for both Harper and whoever ends up being #14 would reduce the prorated portion some, is that enough to do it?

I believe that the tax line is $187,895,000.  The first apron is $195,955,000.  We probably have to stay below the First Apron if we sign someone's buyout, but we are not restricted based on what they earned before, correct?  So we could go after a bigger name buy out (assuming they accept a prorated min contract) but that would put us back over the tax for sure.  It seems to me that we end up back over the tax no matter what.  I don't see that as the end of the world (to be a tax payer this season) as unless we can go back under sometime in the next couple of seasons, BOS is still a repeater, I believe.

[keevsnick]

Just trying to follow along.  We started with 14 roster slots signed plus (3) 2-way slots.

BOS subtracted:

Simons, Boucher, Minott, and Tillman   (-4)

Added:

Vucevic, Williams    (+2)

I believe that this gets BOS to exactly $842,292 under the tax with 12 roster players, correct?  Harper could get elevated, and assuming his salary hit would be the same as Williams ($490,128), that gets to $352,164 under with 13 contracts.  Is there any realistic way that the 14th slot could be filled and stay under the tax threshold?  I guess waiting the full 2 weeks for both Harper and whoever ends up being #14 would reduce the prorated portion some, is that enough to do it?

I believe that the tax line is $187,895,000.  The first apron is $195,955,000.  We probably have to stay below the First Apron if we sign someone's buyout, but we are not restricted based on what they earned before, correct?  So we could go after a bigger name buy out (assuming they accept a prorated min contract) but that would put us back over the tax for sure.  It seems to me that we end up back over the tax no matter what.  I don't see that as the end of the world (to be a tax payer this season) as unless we can go back under sometime in the next couple of seasons, BOS is still a repeater, I believe.

A team can be under the minimum roster # for I believe 14 days, they can also sign players to a series of cheap 10 day deals. Basically it will be very close but they can do some roster tight-rope for long enough to stay under the tax once they do sign a guy for the rets of the season.

[Roy H.]

Just trying to follow along.  We started with 14 roster slots signed plus (3) 2-way slots.

BOS subtracted:

Simons, Boucher, Minott, and Tillman   (-4)

Added:

Vucevic, Williams    (+2)

I believe that this gets BOS to exactly $842,292 under the tax with 12 roster players, correct?  Harper could get elevated, and assuming his salary hit would be the same as Williams ($490,128), that gets to $352,164 under with 13 contracts.  Is there any realistic way that the 14th slot could be filled and stay under the tax threshold?  I guess waiting the full 2 weeks for both Harper and whoever ends up being #14 would reduce the prorated portion some, is that enough to do it?

I believe that the tax line is $187,895,000.  The first apron is $195,955,000.  We probably have to stay below the First Apron if we sign someone's buyout, but we are not restricted based on what they earned before, correct?  So we could go after a bigger name buy out (assuming they accept a prorated min contract) but that would put us back over the tax for sure.  It seems to me that we end up back over the tax no matter what.  I don't see that as the end of the world (to be a tax payer this season) as unless we can go back under sometime in the next couple of seasons, BOS is still a repeater, I believe.

Harper has multiple seasons of NBA experience, so he would count for the prorated two year vet minimum.

[celticinorlando]

Per Keith Smith:

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
?
1h
The Celtics can't finish with two open roster spots. You can only drop below 14 players on standard contracts for up to 14 days at a time and 28 total days per season.

Boston will fill out their roster eventually. Look for Ron Harper Jr. to get a standard deal, then a veteran buyout addition.

[Vermont Green]

Just trying to follow along.  We started with 14 roster slots signed plus (3) 2-way slots.

BOS subtracted:

Simons, Boucher, Minott, and Tillman   (-4)

Added:

Vucevic, Williams    (+2)

I believe that this gets BOS to exactly $842,292 under the tax with 12 roster players, correct?  Harper could get elevated, and assuming his salary hit would be the same as Williams ($490,128), that gets to $352,164 under with 13 contracts.  Is there any realistic way that the 14th slot could be filled and stay under the tax threshold?  I guess waiting the full 2 weeks for both Harper and whoever ends up being #14 would reduce the prorated portion some, is that enough to do it?

I believe that the tax line is $187,895,000.  The first apron is $195,955,000.  We probably have to stay below the First Apron if we sign someone's buyout, but we are not restricted based on what they earned before, correct?  So we could go after a bigger name buy out (assuming they accept a prorated min contract) but that would put us back over the tax for sure.  It seems to me that we end up back over the tax no matter what.  I don't see that as the end of the world (to be a tax payer this season) as unless we can go back under sometime in the next couple of seasons, BOS is still a repeater, I believe.

Harper has multiple seasons of NBA experience, so he would count for the prorated two year vet minimum.

Do you know what that means in terms of a specific number for this season?  Is it more or less that the hit of $490,128 for Amari Williams?  The base salary would be a hair more, correct?  But if they wait 2 weeks or 10 days or whatever, the the prorated portion for this season isn't going to me much different than the hit for Amari is it?

[Roy H.]

Just trying to follow along.  We started with 14 roster slots signed plus (3) 2-way slots.

BOS subtracted:

Simons, Boucher, Minott, and Tillman   (-4)

Added:

Vucevic, Williams    (+2)

I believe that this gets BOS to exactly $842,292 under the tax with 12 roster players, correct?  Harper could get elevated, and assuming his salary hit would be the same as Williams ($490,128), that gets to $352,164 under with 13 contracts.  Is there any realistic way that the 14th slot could be filled and stay under the tax threshold?  I guess waiting the full 2 weeks for both Harper and whoever ends up being #14 would reduce the prorated portion some, is that enough to do it?

I believe that the tax line is $187,895,000.  The first apron is $195,955,000.  We probably have to stay below the First Apron if we sign someone's buyout, but we are not restricted based on what they earned before, correct?  So we could go after a bigger name buy out (assuming they accept a prorated min contract) but that would put us back over the tax for sure.  It seems to me that we end up back over the tax no matter what.  I don't see that as the end of the world (to be a tax payer this season) as unless we can go back under sometime in the next couple of seasons, BOS is still a repeater, I believe.

Harper has multiple seasons of NBA experience, so he would count for the prorated two year vet minimum.

Do you know what that means in terms of a specific number for this season?  Is it more or less that the hit of $490,128 for Amari Williams?  It would be a hair more, correct?

It's more.  Closer to $800k+

[keevsnick]

Just saw that the guy they're getting from the Boucher trade, John Tonje, was also a draft pick in 2025. That means they could sign both him and Max Shulga to rets of season deals that would be for less than the typical veteran minimum. That's one route they coul go to stay under the tax.

Sam Vecenie draft guru from the Athletic actually had Tonje higher on his big board than either Shulga or Williams, for what its worth. 

[Redz]

Just saw that the guy they're getting from the Boucher trade, John Tonje, was also a draft pick in 2025. That means they could sign both him and Max Shulga to rets of season deals that would be for less than the typical veteran minimum. That's one route they coul go to stay under the tax.

Was averaging 18 a game in G League.  Maybe the Celts can work some more developmental magic on him. 

[keevsnick]

Just saw that the guy they're getting from the Boucher trade, John Tonje, was also a draft pick in 2025. That means they could sign both him and Max Shulga to rets of season deals that would be for less than the typical veteran minimum. That's one route they coul go to stay under the tax.

Was averaging 18 a game in G League.  Maybe the Celts can work some more developmental magic on him.

Ya i've been looking around, he actually had some supporters last draft. Sam Vecenie from the Athletic had him #35 on his big board. The Ringer Draft Guide had him at 44. He went 53.

He was viewed as one of the better three-point shooters in that draft with a strong frame, older at 24 years of age. Has some back of the rotation potential. Would make some sense to use Williams/Tonje/Shulga to back fill the roster at cheap numbers this year/next.

[Celtics2021]

Just trying to follow along.  We started with 14 roster slots signed plus (3) 2-way slots.

BOS subtracted:

Simons, Boucher, Minott, and Tillman   (-4)

Added:

Vucevic, Williams    (+2)

I believe that this gets BOS to exactly $842,292 under the tax with 12 roster players, correct?  Harper could get elevated, and assuming his salary hit would be the same as Williams ($490,128), that gets to $352,164 under with 13 contracts.  Is there any realistic way that the 14th slot could be filled and stay under the tax threshold?  I guess waiting the full 2 weeks for both Harper and whoever ends up being #14 would reduce the prorated portion some, is that enough to do it?

I believe that the tax line is $187,895,000.  The first apron is $195,955,000.  We probably have to stay below the First Apron if we sign someone's buyout, but we are not restricted based on what they earned before, correct?  So we could go after a bigger name buy out (assuming they accept a prorated min contract) but that would put us back over the tax for sure.  It seems to me that we end up back over the tax no matter what.  I don't see that as the end of the world (to be a tax payer this season) as unless we can go back under sometime in the next couple of seasons, BOS is still a repeater, I believe.

Harper has multiple seasons of NBA experience, so he would count for the prorated two year vet minimum.

Do you know what that means in terms of a specific number for this season?  Is it more or less that the hit of $490,128 for Amari Williams?  It would be a hair more, correct?

It's more.  Closer to $800k+

Yeah.  I think they will be able to sign him for the last day of the regular season to make him playoff eligible, but the Celtics are going to be that close to the tax line even that it is not a given.