Celtics Regular Season News

[BitterJim]

While others saw a group that had been knocking on the championship door and was ready to do so again, Stevens saw danger in stagnation. “I think we’re always evaluating how we can get better, because I think if you’re not trying to get better, you’re probably going to get caught,” he tells Heavy of the thinking behind the acquisitions of Kristaps Porzingis and Jrue Holiday. “And, you know, we weren’t where we wanted to be anyways as far as a Finals or championship team. So getting caught is just something that I just think you always have to be alert to. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

“I took a lot from Danny,” he says now. “Danny’s an amazing person, and the thing that I probably took more from him than anything else is that he didn’t always agree with everything I did — in fact, he probably looked at some of the stuff I was doing as, ‘No, that probably won’t work.’ But he always allowed me to do my job, and he always was really supportive. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

Reading between the lines, does that quote apply to his approach with Joe, as well?

If the Porzingis trade had gone down with Brogdon and no medical issues scaring off the Clippers, I think Smart + Timelord are still here instead of Holiday.

What a blessing that ended up being. I want to thank the Clippers

I'm probably in the minority but I would have kept Smart + Timelord in that case. But with Brogdon + Timelord, while still a bit hefty I understood it a lot more.

I can see why a fan, or even management, would have preferred Smart + Timelord + 2029 #1 over Jrue (and the additional second rounders + Walsh we got for dealing the first rounder we got for Smart) at the time of the trade.  In hindsight, though, it would have been disastrous to hold on to those two.  They've played a combined 26 games this year.  I'm also not sure how Marcus would have done being the fifth option on offense.

Marcus got hurt on a freak injury to his finger, however.  It’s not like it was a reinjury of something he’s had problems with, like TimeLord’s knees.  It’s unlikely in the alternate universe where he remains a Celtic that he’s out for months with a dislocated finger.  TL I agree with you, and the C’s were right to move him before he got more hurt, unfortunately.

I don't see how you can second guess the Smart for Porzingis trade (in which we also got 2 firsts).  I am a big Marcus Smart fan but that trade was a no brainer  The Holiday trade is the one that can be debated.  I am happy with the trade, but we gave up a solid first round pick plus Brogdon and Williams.  Yes, Williams has been injured and his durability was always a question, but how much difference really is there between Brogdon and Holiday?  It is an upgrade, no doubt, but we would still be really good if we had Brodgon and you have to consider what we may have been able to get with the GSW pick and Williams in a trade (it isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday).

The alternative in this hypothetical isn't Porzingis vs Smart and 2 firsts, it's basically Jrue and a first vs Smart and Timelord. Both situation have a no- rainer trade for Porzingis (in the hypothetical case, the rumored Brogdon-Porzingis deal actually happened).

In that hypothetical case, I don't think I would have dealt Smart and Timelord for Jrue. And given Timelord's injury, I would have been wrong

[Roy H.]

While others saw a group that had been knocking on the championship door and was ready to do so again, Stevens saw danger in stagnation. “I think we’re always evaluating how we can get better, because I think if you’re not trying to get better, you’re probably going to get caught,” he tells Heavy of the thinking behind the acquisitions of Kristaps Porzingis and Jrue Holiday. “And, you know, we weren’t where we wanted to be anyways as far as a Finals or championship team. So getting caught is just something that I just think you always have to be alert to. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

“I took a lot from Danny,” he says now. “Danny’s an amazing person, and the thing that I probably took more from him than anything else is that he didn’t always agree with everything I did — in fact, he probably looked at some of the stuff I was doing as, ‘No, that probably won’t work.’ But he always allowed me to do my job, and he always was really supportive. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

Reading between the lines, does that quote apply to his approach with Joe, as well?

If the Porzingis trade had gone down with Brogdon and no medical issues scaring off the Clippers, I think Smart + Timelord are still here instead of Holiday.

What a blessing that ended up being. I want to thank the Clippers

I'm probably in the minority but I would have kept Smart + Timelord in that case. But with Brogdon + Timelord, while still a bit hefty I understood it a lot more.

I can see why a fan, or even management, would have preferred Smart + Timelord + 2029 #1 over Jrue (and the additional second rounders + Walsh we got for dealing the first rounder we got for Smart) at the time of the trade.  In hindsight, though, it would have been disastrous to hold on to those two.  They've played a combined 26 games this year.  I'm also not sure how Marcus would have done being the fifth option on offense.

Marcus got hurt on a freak injury to his finger, however.  It’s not like it was a reinjury of something he’s had problems with, like TimeLord’s knees.  It’s unlikely in the alternate universe where he remains a Celtic that he’s out for months with a dislocated finger.  TL I agree with you, and the C’s were right to move him before he got more hurt, unfortunately.

I don't see how you can second guess the Smart for Porzingis trade (in which we also got 2 firsts).  I am a big Marcus Smart fan but that trade was a no brainer  The Holiday trade is the one that can be debated.  I am happy with the trade, but we gave up a solid first round pick plus Brogdon and Williams.  Yes, Williams has been injured and his durability was always a question, but how much difference really is there between Brogdon and Holiday?  It is an upgrade, no doubt, but we would still be really good if we had Brodgon and you have to consider what we may have been able to get with the GSW pick and Williams in a trade (it isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday).

I think that there is a substantial difference between Holiday and Brogdon.  Plus, Brogdon was disgruntled, which has to factor in.

[liam]

While others saw a group that had been knocking on the championship door and was ready to do so again, Stevens saw danger in stagnation. “I think we’re always evaluating how we can get better, because I think if you’re not trying to get better, you’re probably going to get caught,” he tells Heavy of the thinking behind the acquisitions of Kristaps Porzingis and Jrue Holiday. “And, you know, we weren’t where we wanted to be anyways as far as a Finals or championship team. So getting caught is just something that I just think you always have to be alert to. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

“I took a lot from Danny,” he says now. “Danny’s an amazing person, and the thing that I probably took more from him than anything else is that he didn’t always agree with everything I did — in fact, he probably looked at some of the stuff I was doing as, ‘No, that probably won’t work.’ But he always allowed me to do my job, and he always was really supportive. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

Reading between the lines, does that quote apply to his approach with Joe, as well?

If the Porzingis trade had gone down with Brogdon and no medical issues scaring off the Clippers, I think Smart + Timelord are still here instead of Holiday.

What a blessing that ended up being. I want to thank the Clippers

I'm probably in the minority but I would have kept Smart + Timelord in that case. But with Brogdon + Timelord, while still a bit hefty I understood it a lot more.

I can see why a fan, or even management, would have preferred Smart + Timelord + 2029 #1 over Jrue (and the additional second rounders + Walsh we got for dealing the first rounder we got for Smart) at the time of the trade.  In hindsight, though, it would have been disastrous to hold on to those two.  They've played a combined 26 games this year.  I'm also not sure how Marcus would have done being the fifth option on offense.

Marcus got hurt on a freak injury to his finger, however.  It’s not like it was a reinjury of something he’s had problems with, like TimeLord’s knees.  It’s unlikely in the alternate universe where he remains a Celtic that he’s out for months with a dislocated finger.  TL I agree with you, and the C’s were right to move him before he got more hurt, unfortunately.

I don't see how you can second guess the Smart for Porzingis trade (in which we also got 2 firsts).  I am a big Marcus Smart fan but that trade was a no brainer  The Holiday trade is the one that can be debated.  I am happy with the trade, but we gave up a solid first round pick plus Brogdon and Williams.  Yes, Williams has been injured and his durability was always a question, but how much difference really is there between Brogdon and Holiday?  It is an upgrade, no doubt, but we would still be really good if we had Brodgon and you have to consider what we may have been able to get with the GSW pick and Williams in a trade (it isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday).

I think that there is a substantial difference between Holiday and Brogdon.  Plus, Brogdon was disgruntled, which has to factor in.

It's not even close. Holiday is an All Star level player and Brogdon isn't.

[Vermont Green]

While others saw a group that had been knocking on the championship door and was ready to do so again, Stevens saw danger in stagnation. “I think we’re always evaluating how we can get better, because I think if you’re not trying to get better, you’re probably going to get caught,” he tells Heavy of the thinking behind the acquisitions of Kristaps Porzingis and Jrue Holiday. “And, you know, we weren’t where we wanted to be anyways as far as a Finals or championship team. So getting caught is just something that I just think you always have to be alert to. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

“I took a lot from Danny,” he says now. “Danny’s an amazing person, and the thing that I probably took more from him than anything else is that he didn’t always agree with everything I did — in fact, he probably looked at some of the stuff I was doing as, ‘No, that probably won’t work.’ But he always allowed me to do my job, and he always was really supportive. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

Reading between the lines, does that quote apply to his approach with Joe, as well?

If the Porzingis trade had gone down with Brogdon and no medical issues scaring off the Clippers, I think Smart + Timelord are still here instead of Holiday.

What a blessing that ended up being. I want to thank the Clippers

I'm probably in the minority but I would have kept Smart + Timelord in that case. But with Brogdon + Timelord, while still a bit hefty I understood it a lot more.

I can see why a fan, or even management, would have preferred Smart + Timelord + 2029 #1 over Jrue (and the additional second rounders + Walsh we got for dealing the first rounder we got for Smart) at the time of the trade.  In hindsight, though, it would have been disastrous to hold on to those two.  They've played a combined 26 games this year.  I'm also not sure how Marcus would have done being the fifth option on offense.

Marcus got hurt on a freak injury to his finger, however.  It’s not like it was a reinjury of something he’s had problems with, like TimeLord’s knees.  It’s unlikely in the alternate universe where he remains a Celtic that he’s out for months with a dislocated finger.  TL I agree with you, and the C’s were right to move him before he got more hurt, unfortunately.

I don't see how you can second guess the Smart for Porzingis trade (in which we also got 2 firsts).  I am a big Marcus Smart fan but that trade was a no brainer  The Holiday trade is the one that can be debated.  I am happy with the trade, but we gave up a solid first round pick plus Brogdon and Williams.  Yes, Williams has been injured and his durability was always a question, but how much difference really is there between Brogdon and Holiday?  It is an upgrade, no doubt, but we would still be really good if we had Brodgon and you have to consider what we may have been able to get with the GSW pick and Williams in a trade (it isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday).

I think that there is a substantial difference between Holiday and Brogdon.  Plus, Brogdon was disgruntled, which has to factor in.

It's not even close. Holiday is an All Star level player and Brogdon isn't.

Do you think Holiday has played at an all star level so far this season?  I concede that Holiday is an upgrade but how much different would the team be?  And what do you think we could have gotten in place of Holiday if we traded Williams and the GSW pick? 

That is what I am saying is debatable.

I went back and looked at some of the trades that we maybe could have gotten in on by offering Williams and the GSW Pick:

Gafford
Olynyk
PJ Washington
Hield
Rozier
Anunoby

And if we traded both Brogdon and Williams and the pick, maybe Siakam.

So this isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday.  Maybe Brogdon + Gafford vs. Holiday.

[Goldstar88]

While others saw a group that had been knocking on the championship door and was ready to do so again, Stevens saw danger in stagnation. “I think we’re always evaluating how we can get better, because I think if you’re not trying to get better, you’re probably going to get caught,” he tells Heavy of the thinking behind the acquisitions of Kristaps Porzingis and Jrue Holiday. “And, you know, we weren’t where we wanted to be anyways as far as a Finals or championship team. So getting caught is just something that I just think you always have to be alert to. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

“I took a lot from Danny,” he says now. “Danny’s an amazing person, and the thing that I probably took more from him than anything else is that he didn’t always agree with everything I did — in fact, he probably looked at some of the stuff I was doing as, ‘No, that probably won’t work.’ But he always allowed me to do my job, and he always was really supportive. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

Reading between the lines, does that quote apply to his approach with Joe, as well?

If the Porzingis trade had gone down with Brogdon and no medical issues scaring off the Clippers, I think Smart + Timelord are still here instead of Holiday.

What a blessing that ended up being. I want to thank the Clippers

I'm probably in the minority but I would have kept Smart + Timelord in that case. But with Brogdon + Timelord, while still a bit hefty I understood it a lot more.

I can see why a fan, or even management, would have preferred Smart + Timelord + 2029 #1 over Jrue (and the additional second rounders + Walsh we got for dealing the first rounder we got for Smart) at the time of the trade.  In hindsight, though, it would have been disastrous to hold on to those two.  They've played a combined 26 games this year.  I'm also not sure how Marcus would have done being the fifth option on offense.

Marcus got hurt on a freak injury to his finger, however.  It’s not like it was a reinjury of something he’s had problems with, like TimeLord’s knees.  It’s unlikely in the alternate universe where he remains a Celtic that he’s out for months with a dislocated finger.  TL I agree with you, and the C’s were right to move him before he got more hurt, unfortunately.

I don't see how you can second guess the Smart for Porzingis trade (in which we also got 2 firsts).  I am a big Marcus Smart fan but that trade was a no brainer  The Holiday trade is the one that can be debated.  I am happy with the trade, but we gave up a solid first round pick plus Brogdon and Williams.  Yes, Williams has been injured and his durability was always a question, but how much difference really is there between Brogdon and Holiday?  It is an upgrade, no doubt, but we would still be really good if we had Brodgon and you have to consider what we may have been able to get with the GSW pick and Williams in a trade (it isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday).

I think that there is a substantial difference between Holiday and Brogdon.  Plus, Brogdon was disgruntled, which has to factor in.

It's not even close. Holiday is an All Star level player and Brogdon isn't.

Do you think Holiday has played at an all star level so far this season?  I concede that Holiday is an upgrade but how much different would the team be?  And what do you think we could have gotten in place of Holiday if we traded Williams and the GSW pick? 

That is what I am saying is debatable.

I went back and looked at some of the trades that we maybe could have gotten in on by offering Williams and the GSW Pick:

Gafford
Olynyk
PJ Washington
Hield
Rozier
Anunoby

And if we traded both Brogdon and Williams and the pick, maybe Siakam.

So this isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday.  Maybe Brogdon + Gafford vs. Holiday.

White didn’t play at an All-star level his first year in Boston, either. I expect Jrue to play better as he gets more comfortable, just like Derrick did. Things take time.

[Roy H.]

While others saw a group that had been knocking on the championship door and was ready to do so again, Stevens saw danger in stagnation. “I think we’re always evaluating how we can get better, because I think if you’re not trying to get better, you’re probably going to get caught,” he tells Heavy of the thinking behind the acquisitions of Kristaps Porzingis and Jrue Holiday. “And, you know, we weren’t where we wanted to be anyways as far as a Finals or championship team. So getting caught is just something that I just think you always have to be alert to. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

“I took a lot from Danny,” he says now. “Danny’s an amazing person, and the thing that I probably took more from him than anything else is that he didn’t always agree with everything I did — in fact, he probably looked at some of the stuff I was doing as, ‘No, that probably won’t work.’ But he always allowed me to do my job, and he always was really supportive. 12 hours ago – via Heavy.com

Reading between the lines, does that quote apply to his approach with Joe, as well?

If the Porzingis trade had gone down with Brogdon and no medical issues scaring off the Clippers, I think Smart + Timelord are still here instead of Holiday.

What a blessing that ended up being. I want to thank the Clippers

I'm probably in the minority but I would have kept Smart + Timelord in that case. But with Brogdon + Timelord, while still a bit hefty I understood it a lot more.

I can see why a fan, or even management, would have preferred Smart + Timelord + 2029 #1 over Jrue (and the additional second rounders + Walsh we got for dealing the first rounder we got for Smart) at the time of the trade.  In hindsight, though, it would have been disastrous to hold on to those two.  They've played a combined 26 games this year.  I'm also not sure how Marcus would have done being the fifth option on offense.

Marcus got hurt on a freak injury to his finger, however.  It’s not like it was a reinjury of something he’s had problems with, like TimeLord’s knees.  It’s unlikely in the alternate universe where he remains a Celtic that he’s out for months with a dislocated finger.  TL I agree with you, and the C’s were right to move him before he got more hurt, unfortunately.

I don't see how you can second guess the Smart for Porzingis trade (in which we also got 2 firsts).  I am a big Marcus Smart fan but that trade was a no brainer  The Holiday trade is the one that can be debated.  I am happy with the trade, but we gave up a solid first round pick plus Brogdon and Williams.  Yes, Williams has been injured and his durability was always a question, but how much difference really is there between Brogdon and Holiday?  It is an upgrade, no doubt, but we would still be really good if we had Brodgon and you have to consider what we may have been able to get with the GSW pick and Williams in a trade (it isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday).

I think that there is a substantial difference between Holiday and Brogdon.  Plus, Brogdon was disgruntled, which has to factor in.

It's not even close. Holiday is an All Star level player and Brogdon isn't.

Do you think Holiday has played at an all star level so far this season?  I concede that Holiday is an upgrade but how much different would the team be?  And what do you think we could have gotten in place of Holiday if we traded Williams and the GSW pick? 

That is what I am saying is debatable.

I went back and looked at some of the trades that we maybe could have gotten in on by offering Williams and the GSW Pick:

Gafford
Olynyk
PJ Washington
Hield
Rozier
Anunoby

And if we traded both Brogdon and Williams and the pick, maybe Siakam.

So this isn't just Brogdon vs. Holiday.  Maybe Brogdon + Gafford vs. Holiday.

White didn’t play at an All-star level his first year in Boston, either. I expect Jrue to play better as he gets more comfortable, just like Derrick did. Things take time.

He's also averaging career highs in 3PT%, eFG% and rebounds.  He's not playing like an All-Star because he's the fifth option on a loaded team.

[Vermont Green]

Again, not saying I think Holliday isn’t an upgrade over Brogdon. But if your point is that it is Holliday’s first season on the Celtics. It was also Brogdon’s first season on the Celtics. Holliday has not played like an All-Star for the Celtics this season. He has been a very efficient and solid player, but not even better than Derrick White.

I view Holliday as an excellent player. But he is not indispensable. It is debatable if that was the best possible trade of those assets. It was a good trade. Just maybe not the best trade.

[liam]

Again, not saying I think Holliday isn’t an upgrade over Brogdon. But if your point is that it is Holliday’s first season on the Celtics. It was also Brogdon’s first season on the Celtics. Holliday has not played like an All-Star for the Celtics this season. He has been a very efficient and solid player, but not even better than Derrick White.

I view Holliday as an excellent player. But he is not indispensable. It is debatable if that was the best possible trade of those assets. It was a good trade. Just maybe not the best trade.

What was out there that was better? There is always a better imaginary trade to be had.

[gift]

Again, not saying I think Holliday isn’t an upgrade over Brogdon. But if your point is that it is Holliday’s first season on the Celtics. It was also Brogdon’s first season on the Celtics. Holliday has not played like an All-Star for the Celtics this season. He has been a very efficient and solid player, but not even better than Derrick White.

I view Holliday as an excellent player. But he is not indispensable. It is debatable if that was the best possible trade of those assets. It was a good trade. Just maybe not the best trade.

i think Holiday is one of those players that increases the 'sum of the parts' value that a good team tends to have. i think this team needed exactly that type of player, so i view it as the right trade.

[Vermont Green]

Again, not saying I think Holliday isn’t an upgrade over Brogdon. But if your point is that it is Holliday’s first season on the Celtics. It was also Brogdon’s first season on the Celtics. Holliday has not played like an All-Star for the Celtics this season. He has been a very efficient and solid player, but not even better than Derrick White.

I view Holliday as an excellent player. But he is not indispensable. It is debatable if that was the best possible trade of those assets. It was a good trade. Just maybe not the best trade.

What was out there that was better? There is always a better imaginary trade to be had.

I listed some examples above.  For example, we probably could have traded RWill and the GSW First and gotten PJ Washington (he was traded for Grant and a first).  That would mean the team would have Brogdon + PJ Washington vs Holiday.  We also traded a 2029 first for Holiday so we would still have that to use in trade.

I am not saying it was a bad trade to get Holiday.  It was a good trade.  It made the team better.  This all started with some posts hypothesizing on if we had kept Smart by having the Porzingis for Brogdon trade actually happen.  I feel the Smart - Porzingis trade is a no brainer, at the time and based on how it played out.  The Holiday trade is debatable.  We probably don't trade Smart for Holiday if the Brogdon - Porzingis trade had happened, I don't know.

Brogdon has played well.  He is a good player.  Not as good as Holiday, but their play this season isn't that far off.  We gave up a lot to get Holiday, don't kid yourself.  It is an upgrade but was it worth the cost (both actual cost and opportunity cost of what other trade may have been possible)?  I think that is debatable.  I think most people discount the opportunity cost aspect of this.  We could have had RWill's contract and 2 firsts to trade with and add to Brogdon.

[Roy H.]

Brogdon has played well.  He is a good player.  Not as good as Holiday, but their play this season isn't that far off.

That's because Brogdon is taking about 42% more shots per possession than Holiday. 

I see Holiday a lot like DJ.  He's still got all-star talent, but he's playing with three monsters in the front court.  He's going to pick his spots on offense while focusing on defense and making smart passes.

[Silas]

Brogdon has played well.  He is a good player.  Not as good as Holiday, but their play this season isn't that far off.

That's because Brogdon is taking about 42% more shots per possession than Holiday. 

I see Holiday a lot like DJ.  He's still got all-star talent, but he's playing with three monsters in the front court.  He's going to pick his spots on offense while focusing on defense and making smart passes.

Holiday is the point guard league leader for 3pt % at 44.3% and I heard that he is the 3pt % league leader for all positions from the corner.  I also see a lot of DJ in Holiday.

[Donoghus]

The fact that its already at 20 games is pretty impressive.

John Karalis 🇬🇷🇺🇦
@John_Karalis
After last night, Boston's magic number to clinch the top seed in the East is 20. Any combination of Celtics wins and Cavs losses that total 20 gives Boston the East

[Vermont Green]

Brogdon has played well.  He is a good player.  Not as good as Holiday, but their play this season isn't that far off.

That's because Brogdon is taking about 42% more shots per possession than Holiday. 

I see Holiday a lot like DJ.  He's still got all-star talent, but he's playing with three monsters in the front court.  He's going to pick his spots on offense while focusing on defense and making smart passes.

Holiday is the point guard league leader for 3pt % at 44.3% and I heard that he is the 3pt % league leader for all positions from the corner.  I also see a lot of DJ in Holiday.

Brogdon was 44.4% from 3 for the Celtics last season and is 41.2% this season for POR.  Again, not saying Holiday isn't really good.  But the alternate reality of Brogdon plus what we could get for RWill and 2 firsts is really good too.

I get why they grabbed Holiday when they had the opportunity.  There would have been risk in waiting to try and find a trade for RWill and the picks.  Or maybe you trade RWill and the picks for someone like Anunoby and then trade Brogdon to someone else too.

Holiday has been a good solid player for the Celtics.  All the things stated are true.  He has been steady, efficient, he had provided a steadying influence, all good.  But his play has not been at an all star level.  He does a lot of the same things that Derrick White does.  I feel it is debatable that we would be better off with Brogdon and PJ Washington or Buddy Hield or Anunoby or Gabbard, all of which are realistic players that were traded for similar packages to RWill and picks.

[Kernewek]

Again, not saying I think Holliday isn’t an upgrade over Brogdon. But if your point is that it is Holliday’s first season on the Celtics. It was also Brogdon’s first season on the Celtics. Holliday has not played like an All-Star for the Celtics this season. He has been a very efficient and solid player, but not even better than Derrick White.

I view Holliday as an excellent player. But he is not indispensable. It is debatable if that was the best possible trade of those assets. It was a good trade. Just maybe not the best trade.

i think Holiday is one of those players that increases the 'sum of the parts' value that a good team tends to have. i think this team needed exactly that type of player, so i view it as the right trade.

This is how I feel as well. I do prefer Holiday to Brogdon, though that, to me, says more about Brogdon than Holiday.