Who do the C’s cut?

[Moranis]

Don't get me wrong, I think Shaq would be dominant just like he was in LA, I was objecting to the idea that he'd be better or more dominant today. He may have been, but he also might not have been.  There is no way to know that.

Shaq got hurt his last year in Orlando and was never the same physically.  He bulked up a lot after that and stopped running the floor as much. I just don't think his frame could handle the svelte 390, he needed to be 325+ to stay healthy enough to play in the post, which is why he changed things up stylistically somewhat in LA.  Phil obviously helped a great deal with that as well.

I look back at Shaq's last year in Orlando when they got swept by the Bulls, and I just remember Rodman giving Shaq so many fits in that series.  His small, yet very strong, frame just bothered Shaq. I think he got bigger after that so he could better use his size.  He got bigger and stronger and that is when he really started to dominate inside. Early on he was a very big man, but played more of a finesse style (and yes some of that could have been coaching).

All that is to say, I don't know how Shaq would have translated today.  Obviously he'd still be an all time great, but I don't really know if he'd be better.  Different, sure, but I don't think he could play like Giannis. Doesn't have the skill to do that.  He'd be bigger rhan anyone else, but that doesn't mean he'd work better on the modern game either since he was bigger than everyone else when he played.

[Goldstar88]

I don't like comparing Giannis to Shaq. He is not as physically imposing as Shaq was. Giannis is closer to David Robinson minus the jump-shot and FT shooting.

He is not, but he is as dominant.  bball-ref has shooting numbers starting with the 96-97 season.  In Shaq's 3 Lakers title seasons from 0-3 feet he shot 77.1% and took 44.1% of his attempts from that range.  The last 3 seasons from 0-3 feet Giannis is shooting 81% and is taking 44.5% of his shots from that range.  In other words, Giannis shoots more from that range and hits at a much higher percentage than Shaq did at his apex.  Shaq's best shooting season was 01 at 79.2% which carried his average those 3 seasons.  In the last 3 years, Giannis has been 83.7, 80.8, and 79.1.  There is a very strong argument that Giannis is the most dominant interior scorer that has ever played (I'd take Wilt over him, but I'm not sure I'd take anyone else).  Even guys like Claxton, Gobert, Jordan, etc. that lead the league in FG% at around 70% haven't had a season from 0-3 feet shooting 83.7% (well Jordan just did that for the first time in Denver, but the volume isn't hardly anything).

I think a lot of people still remember Giannis as the skinny SF, but Giannis is a monster now and he is unstoppable in the paint. He isn't your typical old school big man in that he does spread out his other shots from all parts of the floor, but for pure dominance and volume around the basket, there is basically no one better that has ever played the game.

If Shaq played in todays NBA he would put up Wilt Chamberlain like numbers. League is so soft now compared to the 90’s and early 2000’s.

Or, he might be a bench player because he get's played off the floor and teams don't post up anymore.  Giannis' game is much more suitable for today that Shaq's would be.

or he gets into foul trouble because he is pulled out to the 3 line, or he develops a shot out to 3 and isn't effective inside, or countless other things.  No way to know, only thing you can know is what actually happened

You guys must have missed Shaq when he was on the Magic. His game would have translated just fine.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0grIbJ5O-8&pp=ygUSc2hhcSBvcmxhbmRvIG1hZ2lj

I remember Shaq on the Magic quite well.  That guy wasn't the dominant interior scorer he became in LA.  He was very good obviously, but he took it to another level when he bulked up and stopped running the floor. And that mostly happened because he got hurt and couldn't run the floor the same way.  He was too big to maintain that style of play, which would have most likely always happened no matter what era he played in. His frame needed him to be the behemoth of a man and that big a man can't run the floor the same way.  Shaq was always at his best when he was huge, he never would have been able to keep the frame he had in Orlando.

I disagree with this.

I saw the main difference between Shaq's dominance in LAL vs his less dominant still MVP caliber years in ORL as coming down to coaching. Not his physical size.

It is striking when you go back and rewatch old Magic games just how bad a job Brian Hill did of organizing that offense and building it around Shaq's post ups. In comparison Phil Jackson, who modified the Triangle offense to better highlight Shaq's post touches, did a much better job of using Shaq as a starting point & central figure to the offense. He did not allow his team's execution to become undone. He constantly kept the focus on Shaq's low post game.

If Phil Jackson had of been the coach in Orlando during Shaq's years there, Orlando would have won multiple titles and Shaq would have won MVPs there.

Well said, Who… TP

[Goldstar88]

I also disagree with the general idea that Shaq would do worse in today's league than his own era.

Being able to exploit one's advantage comes down to who has the matchup advantage and who does not. Nobody in today's league could stop Shaq. Centers are smaller today. PnR offenses leading to deep post catches make it much easier for guys like Shaq to get catches deep in the paint for easy scores before a rotating help defense can get there. Switching defenses are not designed for guys like Shaq meaning Shaq either gets bunnies or his teammates gets bunnies because they are left open because they cannot switch off of Shaq.

As unstoppable as Shaq was in 2000-02, he would even more unstoppable in today's game. Shaq would devastate today's league in a way that Giannis can only dream about.

Exactly. it wouldn’t even be a competition.

[Roy H.]

I also disagree with the general idea that Shaq would do worse in today's league than his own era.

Being able to exploit one's advantage comes down to who has the matchup advantage and who does not. Nobody in today's league could stop Shaq. Centers are smaller today. PnR offenses leading to deep post catches make it much easier for guys like Shaq to get catches deep in the paint for easy scores before a rotating help defense can get there. Switching defenses are not designed for guys like Shaq meaning Shaq either gets bunnies or his teammates gets bunnies because they are left open because they cannot switch off of Shaq.

As unstoppable as Shaq was in 2000-02, he would even more unstoppable in today's game. Shaq would devastate today's league in a way that Giannis can only dream about.

Exactly. it wouldn’t even be a competition.

Yeah, while there weren't a lot of guys who could body Shaq up in his prime, there are even fewer today.

[wdleehi]

How many of today's shooting big men are going to have the legs to shoot threes by the time the 4th quarter rolls around after banging with Shaq?


And how many extra shooters would be around Shaq today?   


Defenses have less size now with many of today's PFs being large SF's of Shaq era.   


Shaq is the guy that can change how teams build their bench.   

[W8ting2McHale]

I also disagree with the general idea that Shaq would do worse in today's league than his own era.

Being able to exploit one's advantage comes down to who has the matchup advantage and who does not. Nobody in today's league could stop Shaq. Centers are smaller today. PnR offenses leading to deep post catches make it much easier for guys like Shaq to get catches deep in the paint for easy scores before a rotating help defense can get there. Switching defenses are not designed for guys like Shaq meaning Shaq either gets bunnies or his teammates gets bunnies because they are left open because they cannot switch off of Shaq.

As unstoppable as Shaq was in 2000-02, he would even more unstoppable in today's game. Shaq would devastate today's league in a way that Giannis can only dream about.

Exactly. it wouldn’t even be a competition.

Yeah, while there weren't a lot of guys who could body Shaq up in his prime, there are even fewer today.

I would love to see how far Embiid can flop if Shaq bodies him up.

[Moranis]

How many of today's shooting big men are going to have the legs to shoot threes by the time the 4th quarter rolls around after banging with Shaq?


And how many extra shooters would be around Shaq today?   


Defenses have less size now with many of today's PFs being large SF's of Shaq era.   


Shaq is the guy that can change how teams build their bench.

How much banging are they taking if Shaq isn't in the game because he is winded or fouled out?  Shaq trying to guard out to the 3 point line wouldn't work well either.  That is what I mean when I say I don't know how well he'd translate and you can't just assume he'd work.  He might work better, but he certainly might work less.  Shaq coming up today would also probably look a lot more like Embiid, then he would Shaq of the 90's in how he plays the game.  He'd probably be more perimeter oriented, taking away some of his effectiveness in the paint.   

The average PF and C's in 2001 weighed 232 and 247.  The average PF and C in 2022 weighed 227 and 246.  The league average weight was 214 pounds in both seasons.  PF's and C's are less than an inch shorter in 2022 than 2001 on average.  The average height has been 6'6 point something inches basically every season since 1975.  https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/