What's Brogdon's Problem

[Vermont Green]

Simple guess is he wanted to start.  He’d been doing it for years and saw himself as a starter.  To his credit he did a great job in his bench role.

Celtics2021's simple guess is probably at least a part of it, but I am not convinced that any this talk that he was unhappy or wanted to be traded is even true.  There was not even a whisper of any issue until the near-trade to LAC.  It would be perfectly normal for any player to have some issue with that being in the news.  It is also perfectly normal for any player to prefer to start than to come off the bench, all else equal, but Brogdon seem perfectly fine with a lesser role on a winning team.  I never got any hint that Brogdon was unhappy with his role on the Celtics, he embraced it and excelled at it.  And if he was unhappy about his role, he certainly didn't let it affect him or the team.

In spite of all the talk about problems, Brogdon was in Boston and ready to start the season.  I have not heard anything from him about him having a problem.  Plenty of speculation from the media, innuendo, but nothing concrete.  And now he really has been traded.  I think the trade was more about how much Stevens wanted Holiday than about wanting to move Brogdon.  I see it as that simple.  They liked Brogdon, they liked Holiday more.  It wasn't about anyone's problems.  I can say that as a fan, I have no problem with Brogdon.  Based on his one season in Boston, I hold him in high regard as a player and a professional.

One quibble:  Brad used the actual word "anger" regarding Brogdon, so I'm assuming there's some truth to it.  Behind the scenes, he wasn't happy.

But all the rest of it, you're right:  every indication was that Brogdon was going to be in training camp and carry himself like a professional, regardless of what feelings he had.  Being angry makes him human.  Showing up, not publicly airing his grievances, etc., makes him somebody who does his job with class.

Only one quibble?  That isn't bad.

I also wanted to respond to your point above about how Brogdon probably heard at the exit interview that he was in their plans and all that.  I don't doubt that but it is probably what he heard at every exit interview his entire career.  The debate is whether or not that constitutes being lied to.

When I look at Harden who seems to be claiming that when he signed his extension or option year, that there was an understanding that he would get a max deal or be traded or something that didn't happen.  So Harden feels he was lied to.

None of us know what was said at the exit interview or otherwise between Brogdon and the Celtics.  But did anyone not keep their word, go back on a promise?  I am guessing probably not.  Saying we liked what you did this season and you are part of our plans (at this time) for next season is not the same as saying we definitely won't trade you.  I suspect though, that at the time, Stevens already was thinking that he would trade one of Smart, White, Brogdon for a big if he could.  Heck, maybe he was also wondering what he could get for Jaylen Brown.  But should a team reveal that to a player at the exit interview?  Should a player expect that level of transparency?

[jbpats]

I think it is telling that Brogdon will now be on his 4th team in 6 years.
Helluva player but he never seems happy. I can do nothing more but assume but have a feeling he isn't the most enjoyable guy to be around just from his everyday demeanor and tone.

There has to be more to it as teams aren't usually quick to unload a fringe all star, former rookie of the year and now 6th man of the year type player.. on a favorable contract

[Roy H.]

I think it is telling that Brogdon will now be on his 4th team in 6 years.
Helluva player but he never seems happy. I can do nothing more but assume but have a feeling he isn't the most enjoyable guy to be around just from his everyday demeanor and tone.

There has to be more to it as teams aren't usually quick to unload, a fringe all star, former rookie of the year and now 6th man of the year type player.. on a favorable contract

I think that with a lot of players, that's true.  But, I'm not sure it's fair to Brogdon.

He was on Milwaukee.  They seemingly liked him.  Then he got a big contract in free agency, and he left.  That's not a sign of a malcontent.

Then he was on Indiana.  He played very well there.  Then the team started a youth movement after it landed Haliburton.  That's not the sign of a malcontent.

Next, he joined the Celtics.  He accepted his role and won 6MOY.  He was in trade discussions after only a year, but that's because upgrades became available.  There's no shame in being traded for KP or Jrue.  That's not the sign of a malcontent, although Brogdon's unhappiness may have affected the urgency of a trade for Jrue.

Rather than a malcontent, I think Brogdon finds himself in the "sweet spot" for being traded a lot:  he's a good but not great player who has an easily moveable salary.  He's not good enough to be a building block, but he is good enough to be desirable to a lot of teams because of a fairly modest salary, good production and professional behavior.

[Vermont Green]

I think it is telling that Brogdon will now be on his 4th team in 6 years.
Helluva player but he never seems happy. I can do nothing more but assume but have a feeling he isn't the most enjoyable guy to be around just from his everyday demeanor and tone.

There has to be more to it as teams aren't usually quick to unload, a fringe all star, former rookie of the year and now 6th man of the year type player.. on a favorable contract

I think that with a lot of players, that's true.  But, I'm not sure it's fair to Brogdon.

He was on Milwaukee.  They seemingly liked him.  Then he got a big contract in free agency, and he left.  That's not a sign of a malcontent.

Then he was on Indiana.  He played very well there.  Then the team started a youth movement after it landed Haliburton.  That's not the sign of a malcontent.

Next, he joined the Celtics.  He accepted his role and won 6MOY.  He was in trade discussions after only a year, but that's because upgrades became available.  There's no shame in being traded for KP or Jrue.  That's not the sign of a malcontent, although Brogdon's unhappiness may have affected the urgency of a trade for Jrue.

Rather than a malcontent, I think Brogdon finds himself in the "sweet spot" for being traded a lot:  he's a good but not great player who has an easily moveable salary.  He's not good enough to be a building block, but he is good enough to be desirable to a lot of teams because of a fairly modest salary, good production and professional behavior.

Yeah, I don't know what the deal was in MIL or IND but based on what I saw in the 1 season he was on the Celtics, I saw nothing to lead me to think there is an issue with his demeanor or tone.  All I saw was a really good basketball player who conducted himself as a consummate professional.  That something happened to his elbow in the playoffs is not his fault.  That he tried to play through it and his performance was impacted was not his fault.

And even if he was upset about the near trade, a perfectly normal reaction for any player, there were no public antics or dramatics.  He had shown up for the preseason and by all appearances, was ready to play.  If anything, I feel that Brogdon got kind of a tough deal out of this.  He was traded for a really good player.  I don't see this as having anything to do with an issue with Brogdon.

[Big333223]

For all the talk about how professional Brogdon is... he is a guy who jumped ship from a great opportunity to win in Milwaukee to be able to shoot more in Indiana.

Maybe that's oversimplifying but I wonder about the narrative around him.

[Celtics2021]

For all the talk about how professional Brogdon is... he is a guy who jumped ship from a great opportunity to win in Milwaukee to be able to shoot more in Indiana.

Maybe that's oversimplifying but I wonder about the narrative around him.

I think that’s oversimplifying more than a bit.  He was a former second round pick in his mid-20s who’d made the minimum salary for three years.  He was a restricted free agent if Milwaukee wanted to keep him — they preferred the salary space and draft pick instead.

[RJ87]

For all the talk about how professional Brogdon is... he is a guy who jumped ship from a great opportunity to win in Milwaukee to be able to shoot more in Indiana.

Maybe that's oversimplifying but I wonder about the narrative around him.

I think that’s oversimplifying more than a bit.  He was a former second round pick in his mid-20s who’d made the minimum salary for three years.  He was a restricted free agent if Milwaukee wanted to keep him — they preferred the salary space and draft pick instead.

Ding ding. People act like franchises are the only entities in the NBA that are supposed to prioritize their best interests. The truth is, the vast majority of NBA players don't win championships. Winning isn't the only priority and with this much money at stake on an individual level, it shouldn't be. These players make a lot of money per year, but they're not playing into their 60s. Their window to optimize their value is what? 10 years? For role players, it's usually less. It's wild that fans really think that a player like Malcolm should turn down $85 million guaranteed for a trophy that's pretty but ultimately doesn't affect their lives or the lives of those around them. I'm not going to be mad at any NBA player who wants cash in when they can. Milwaukee could've matched if they wanted to, they chose not to because that was the best decision for the franchise and no one is questioning that decision now.

[tenn_smoothie]

For all the talk about how professional Brogdon is... he is a guy who jumped ship from a great opportunity to win in Milwaukee to be able to shoot more in Indiana.

Maybe that's oversimplifying but I wonder about the narrative around him.

I think that’s oversimplifying more than a bit.  He was a former second round pick in his mid-20s who’d made the minimum salary for three years.  He was a restricted free agent if Milwaukee wanted to keep him — they preferred the salary space and draft pick instead.

Ding ding. People act like franchises are the only entities in the NBA that are supposed to prioritize their best interests. The truth is, the vast majority of NBA players don't win championships. Winning isn't the only priority and with this much money at stake on an individual level, it shouldn't be. These players make a lot of money per year, but they're not playing into their 60s. Their window to optimize their value is what? 10 years? For role players, it's usually less. It's wild that fans really think that a player like Malcolm should turn down $85 million guaranteed for a trophy that's pretty but ultimately doesn't affect their lives or the lives of those around them. I'm not going to be mad at any NBA player who wants cash in when they can. Milwaukee could've matched if they wanted to, they chose not to because that was the best decision for the franchise and no one is questioning that decision now.

With an $85 million contract, I hope Malcolm can make ends meet until his social security kicks in after he turns 60.

[tenn_smoothie]

I liked Brogdon a lot and he was an excellent facilitator early in the season when the offense was more fluid.
He became less effective as the offense descended into the iso/jack-a-three mode as the season progressed, but that wasn't his fault.
Has everyone forgotten how pleased we were early on with the offensive movement and passing from Brogdon, White and Horford that produced record setting scoring that fueled the Celts fast start ? Never did understand the stagnation that was allowed to develop later in the year.

[ozgod]

I've read that some of it is due to the "exit interviews" at the end of the season.  Apparently Brogdon (and Gallinari) were told that they were in the Celtics long-term plans.  To then find yourself on the verge of being traded, without warning, probably would make most people angry.

People quote "it's a business", but so are all of the jobs we fans have.  If our bosses outright lied to us, I'm sure we'd be angry.  The problem for Brogdon -- and all players, really -- is there isn't a GM out there who doesn't lie.  Some may communicate better than others, but they're all going to trade a player if there's a deal that improves the team.

I guess the GM, or boss, can tell you something that would be valid "as things stand at that point". At the time they did the exit interviews KP wasn't seen as available. Things changed, an opportunity became available.

I never hold a player getting upset against him...sometimes we as fans expect unquestioned loyalty from the players, but then when players get mad because they got traded we wonder why they're complaining. But it's going to keep happening, players are the main assets in this business, but they are also people with feelings. I wish him well going forward, understand why he is cut up, but it's the unfortunate reality of the business. Doesn't mean he's not allowed to be upset about it but we all move on 

[LilRip]

I don’t buy the whole Brogdon malcontent narrative. The dude has bounced around because he’s good, not great. Teams simultaneously view him as “expendable” but also as “someone who can help their team win”.

[blink]

I've read that some of it is due to the "exit interviews" at the end of the season.  Apparently Brogdon (and Gallinari) were told that they were in the Celtics long-term plans.  To then find yourself on the verge of being traded, without warning, probably would make most people angry.

People quote "it's a business", but so are all of the jobs we fans have.  If our bosses outright lied to us, I'm sure we'd be angry.  The problem for Brogdon -- and all players, really -- is there isn't a GM out there who doesn't lie.  Some may communicate better than others, but they're all going to trade a player if there's a deal that improves the team.

I guess the GM, or boss, can tell you something that would be valid "as things stand at that point". At the time they did the exit interviews KP wasn't seen as available. Things changed, an opportunity became available.

I never hold a player getting upset against him...sometimes we as fans expect unquestioned loyalty from the players, but then when players get mad because they got traded we wonder why they're complaining. But it's going to keep happening, players are the main assets in this business, but they are also people with feelings. I wish him well going forward, understand why he is cut up, but it's the unfortunate reality of the business. Doesn't mean he's not allowed to be upset about it but we all move on 

TP for a nice post.  I feel the same.  We forget sometimes that these guys build lives with their teams and their communities.  It is really hard just in the blink of an eye to be told, you've been traded and your whole life is uprooted.  And it literally can happen to ANY player.  Who would have thought that Jrue Holiday would have been moved out of the blue?  He seemed like he was going to retire a Buck for sure. 

I liked Brogdon with us last year.  He had a nice sense of calm about him as well, similar to Jrue.  A quiet confidence that helped the team.  Brogdon was a 6th man of the year, I mean we can't complain about what he gave us last year,  and if we were in his shoes we all would be mad too.  After Smart was traded for KP, I am sure Brogdon relaxed a bit thinking, well I was mad about not getting a better shot at the point instead of D White, but he is a pro and he wasn't going to be a malcontent.   Then bam, he and Timelord get traded after the DL trade to the Bucks.  I was sad to see Smart, Timelord and Brogdon leave.  I liked them on our team, but we are probably better after the trades.

[obnoxiousmime]

I'm sure he's a proud guy and I think he has a right to feel a little betrayed by management. He chose to come here when the Pacers gave him two options, he didn't have to come and accept a bench role. Then he played great all season and suddenly because he injured his elbow (not even his knee which is what everybody was concerned about), everybody started the "Brogdon can't stay healthy" narrative all over again. To people who say, well he's a union rep, why wouldn't he be more understanding, I think the question should be more, what kind of person desires to be a rep in the first place? Maybe somebody with a strong sense of self-worth and who would rather be somewhere he's dealt with fairly (even if it's a worse team) instead of being jettisoned after one season? Somebody who see the player/team relationship as more like a partnership as opposed to, we have the right to deal you wherever after one year because you're just a number to us.

Not to mention, my theory is that he also didn't like the way Mazzulla had him play. All he did was shoot 3s and drive to the basket repeatedly. Then at the end of the season people wondered why he didn't playmake more and concluded that he must not have chemistry with the Js. To me, it looked more like he was asked to play a very narrow scoring role off the bench and they didn't actually want him doing anything besides spotting up when Jaylen and Jayson were actually in the game at the same time. The fact that Joe automatically stated White was going to start without giving Brogdon a shot just reinforced the idea to him that they didn't see him being good enough for a different role.

[cman88]

Supposedly he was upset because Joe named White the starter and he thought he would get a shot to compete for the role one article I read. That I get. You have an opportunity for more minutes and a starter role and the team says nah you still a backup.

If it's the trade. I kind of get it. But dude was here one year. We traded smart it was a sign to brogdon we value you as much we just wanted KP.

Al lauded he was dangled for Jrue. I don't see him angry or sulking.

[Big333223]

For all the talk about how professional Brogdon is... he is a guy who jumped ship from a great opportunity to win in Milwaukee to be able to shoot more in Indiana.

Maybe that's oversimplifying but I wonder about the narrative around him.

I think that’s oversimplifying more than a bit.  He was a former second round pick in his mid-20s who’d made the minimum salary for three years.  He was a restricted free agent if Milwaukee wanted to keep him — they preferred the salary space and draft pick instead.

Ding ding. People act like franchises are the only entities in the NBA that are supposed to prioritize their best interests. The truth is, the vast majority of NBA players don't win championships. Winning isn't the only priority and with this much money at stake on an individual level, it shouldn't be. These players make a lot of money per year, but they're not playing into their 60s. Their window to optimize their value is what? 10 years? For role players, it's usually less. It's wild that fans really think that a player like Malcolm should turn down $85 million guaranteed for a trophy that's pretty but ultimately doesn't affect their lives or the lives of those around them. I'm not going to be mad at any NBA player who wants cash in when they can. Milwaukee could've matched if they wanted to, they chose not to because that was the best decision for the franchise and no one is questioning that decision now.

This is true.

And, fwiw, Brad maintains that Malcolm wasn't upset and would've been at camp and totally professional if the Jrue deal hadn't suddenly materialized.