In hindsight, do we keep Grant?

[bdm860]

We always should have kept Grant at that money.

Even if he annoyed the other players? I'm not sure if this actually happened, but there were rumors.

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, and obviously I'm not in the locker room, but I could see how having an "annoying" teammate is actually great for team chemistry.

Having that one guy who serves as a punching bag for the rest of the team, that the rest of the team can make fun of and rally around, can really bring a team together.  Seems like he was accepting of that role too (dressing up as Batman, the staged fight with Udoka, the Deuce "beef", etc.).  Having that 6th-8th man in that role is probably the ideal fit too, good enough to talk some smack, not good enough where he can't be put in his place if he gets too annoying, and not so bad where it feels like you're just picking on the worst guy on the team.

I've always thought teams can thrive with one guy in certain "negative" roles and have it be a boost for the team, like having one goon can be good for the team, while having more than one goon is usually not so good.  Similar here with Grant being annoying, having one annoying guy can be good for the team.

In the words of George Costanza: "Every group has someone that they all make fun of... like us with Elaine."

[BitterJim]

No,  we would have not.   I actually thinking this will help a lot with whining to the refs problems across the board as a Grant was bigtime offender in that regard.

He, also despite what many thin,k was one of our worst defenders against Giannis and Embiid if you look at Defensive Rating against them.  Stats do not lie.

He was not really a big, nor a wing.   Big guys shot over him and he did better against wings.   Horrible rebounder for his build and strength level

Stats might not lie, but some of them have no idea what they're talking about. Defensive stats in basketball are the best examples

[Celtics4ever]

No  eyes fail people, BitterJim,  Al was our best defender  vs him



Giannis Antetokounmpo has averaged 26.4 points, 11.2 rebounds and 5.0 assists in 11 games versus Grant Williams in his career.
Giannis Antetokounmpo has averaged 24.3 points, 11.0 rebounds and 4.3 assists in 22 games versus Al Horford in his career.

No one can truly stop him but enough of the perpetuation of the myth that Grant was a Giannis Stopper!

You can bet management knows this fact.

[Roy H.]

No,  we would have not.   I actually thinking this will help a lot with whining to the refs problems across the board as a Grant was bigtime offender in that regard.

He, also despite what many thin,k was one of our worst defenders against Giannis and Embiid if you look at Defensive Rating against them.  Stats do not lie.

He was not really a big, nor a wing.   Big guys shot over him and he did better against wings.   Horrible rebounder for his build and strength level

Stats might not lie, but some of them have no idea what they're talking about. Defensive stats in basketball are the best examples

Yeah.  I like player tracking data, but some of the stats / analytics do in fact "lie".  For instance, DRtg isn't even a real calculation, it's an estimate based upon incomplete data.  Even if it were based on data, there's no good way to completely filter out the impact of teammates. 

That said, I have no real opinion on Grant's defense versus Giannis or Embiid.  As with any superstar, nobody is going to stop them and it takes a team effort to slow them down.

[Vermont Green]

I don't know what all the advanced analytics say about Grant's defense but based on what I saw on the court, I feel Grant is a decent defender for a bench PF.  He was smart and played the scheme well but individually, I did not see anything special.  He also was not much of a help defender, like say RWill, who could rotate and swat shots away.

I think what Grant could do defensively can be replaced although perhaps not with 1 player.  Brissett should be able to come off the bench and defend smaller bigs and wings.  Gabriel maybe will be used off the bench to defend bigger bigs.

It would be nice to have a higher level defensive minded big that is better than either Kornet or Gabriel.

[BitterJim]

No  eyes fail people, BitterJim,  Al was our best defender  vs him



Giannis Antetokounmpo has averaged 26.4 points, 11.2 rebounds and 5.0 assists in 11 games versus Grant Williams in his career.
Giannis Antetokounmpo has averaged 24.3 points, 11.0 rebounds and 4.3 assists in 22 games versus Al Horford in his career.

No one can truly stop him but enough of the perpetuation of the myth that Grant was a Giannis Stopper!

You can bet management knows this fact.

You're absolutely right that Al is our best defender against him, no argument there. I won't even argue about Grant's defense (although I disagree and think he's a good one-on-one defender against guys like Giannis), but I will take issue with using poor stats as the argument for/against guys. And especially trying to use those stats to shut down any disagreement because they are generally pretty bad.

One is so bad that, as a Center, getting an extra assist improves your score on the defensive side of the floor (which I think we can all agree is ridiculous)

[gouki88]

I wanted to keep Grant. I thought he would maybe get 12M a year (he obviously did better). But, I am no cap expert, and now we are so top-loaded even though he would be a very helpful 3rd big (even though he is maybe 6 foot 6), idk how we could make it work money wise. I really would love the Jrue trade if he was 3 years younger. 34 for a guard... yikes.

How about 2 years younger?  He is actually 33, will turn 34 next June.

Sorry, sir-- unclear what your point is. He will be 34 during this season. I would prefer he was turning 30. He may only have 1 or 2 good years left (hope I'm wrong). You splitting hairs over a few months in age may be green tinted glassed at play. I'm a Homer too but I look at things objectively. The big 3 (with pierce kg ray) was basically cooked after 2 years together. Most don't age like LeBron.

It’s not splitting hairs, he won’t be 34 until the next Finals.

We’ve been well served by the fossil that is Al Horford

To each their own but to me it is splitting hairs. Dude has a lot of miles under him and most PGs donr get better at 34, 35, 36.

I suppose, but he's shown no signs of decline, isn't a small guard, and has a strong & versatile skill base

He's declining, but it's measured. Same with someone like Al.

How is he declining? He was the same player during his entire Bucks tenure