Woj: Damian Lillard Traded to the Bucks (Official)

[Who]

So is Durant Phoenix’s best defender?

Teams will be licking their lips at the thought of Nurkic & Beal/Booker in the PnR

Booker was their best defender in the postseason last year. He has surpassed Durant on D.

Then whoever starts at SF out of Okogie / Bates-Diop.

Durant in 3rd.

What?? Booker is absolutely not better than Durant, nor Okogie

Criticism of Booker's D is outdated. It was well deserved in the past but not anymore. He has improved hugely on that end of the floor. He was far and away the best defender of their star players (CP3, Durant, Booker, Ayton) in last year's playoffs. You could quibble between him and Okogie.

Likewise, ratings of Durant has a strong defensive player are outdated as well. He is no longer that. He is much closer to average nowadays. He doesn't move well enough anymore or give enough effort on that end of the floor anymore.

Asserting something does not make it so. What is your evidence?

Just watching games. Booker was their best point of attack defender in the backcourt. Increased intensity / activity on defense. Used his size & length well.

Durant is not moving as well on defense as he used to. He still has smarts, size and length but less mobility. Less activity. His main defensive contributions came on team D which is now reduced due to reduced quickness / mobility. He doesn't expend the same amount of energy on defense that he once did in GSW or OKC. He saves himself more for the offensive end.

[jpotter33]

During a September 5th meeting when the Portland Trail Blazers made it clear a trade with the Miami Heat was unlikely, Damian Lillard asked to rescind his trade request to remain with the franchise.

Joe Cronin responded by saying to Lillard that there was no coming back.

Sources tell Chris Haynes of Bleacher Report that "Lillard was shocked."

Lillard began showing up to work out at the Blazers' practice facility on Sept. 11th and went in for eight days. Lillard said Cronin did not address him once.

"I went into the facility because I was still on the roster and usually that time of the year is when team activities start to pick up as a group. I wasn't confident I would be moved so I showed up to be in the mix," Lillard told Bleacher Report.

Lillard met with Aaron Goodwin on Sept. 17 to discuss a contingency plan with the Milwaukee Bucks and Brooklyn Nets the preferred alternative teams.

Good. Dame is just as much of a villain in this story - if not more so - than Portland. He got his hundreds of millions of dollars, then decided to downright screw Portland by severely hampering his market and trying to force his way to an undesirable trade partner for them.

I wouldn’t want him back either, especially with his replacement in the waiting.

[Who]

The Raptors were hoping to reach a deal with the Trail Blazers that didn’t include Pascal Siakam, OG Anunoby or Scottie Barnes,

per @michaelgrange

So TOR was never a serious bidder.

[ChillyWilly]

So is Durant Phoenix’s best defender?

Teams will be licking their lips at the thought of Nurkic & Beal/Booker in the PnR

Booker was their best defender in the postseason last year. He has surpassed Durant on D.

Then whoever starts at SF out of Okogie / Bates-Diop.

Durant in 3rd.

What?? Booker is absolutely not better than Durant, nor Okogie

Criticism of Booker's D is outdated. It was well deserved in the past but not anymore. He has improved hugely on that end of the floor. He was far and away the best defender of their star players (CP3, Durant, Booker, Ayton) in last year's playoffs. You could quibble between him and Okogie.

Likewise, ratings of Durant has a strong defensive player are outdated as well. He is no longer that. He is much closer to average nowadays. He doesn't move well enough anymore or give enough effort on that end of the floor anymore.

Asserting something does not make it so. What is your evidence?

Just watching games. Booker was their best point of attack defender in the backcourt. Increased intensity / activity on defense. Used his size & length well.

Durant is not moving as well on defense as he used to. He still has smarts, size and length but less mobility. Less activity. His main defensive contributions came on team D which is now reduced due to reduced quickness / mobility. He doesn't expend the same amount of energy on defense that he once did in GSW or OKC. He saves himself more for the offensive end.

Stats do not back up your eye test claim. 3rd highest DTRG last season it went up 5 points in the playoffs this season. Suns are better statistically with Booker on the bench. I think that one night against Boston where he held Hauser to nothing has left an impression on you.

[BitterJim]

The Raptors were hoping to reach a deal with the Trail Blazers that didn’t include Pascal Siakam, OG Anunoby or Scottie Barnes,

per @michaelgrange

So TOR was never a serious bidder.

Or they were, and now they've started damage control to help their relationships with those guys

[CelticSooner]

Seems like the only national guy to bring up the Bucks defense is Bill Simmons lol

[Phantom255x]

The C's took the Bucks to OT last year on the road in a game where they literally sat every starter while MIL played everyone, and then in the last regular season meeting between the two the C's put up a fairly easy 140. Even in the 1st round against Miami, the Bucks couldn't stop Butler and the Heat were able to just put up points easily.

So yeah, while Lillard > Holiday, I think the Bucks did get worse defensively so it might not matter as much even if Lillard offers a little more in scoring. And I think Holiday is underrated in clutch moments, the Bucks don't win the 2021 title without him + Middleton especially during that ECF where Giannis missed games. And even last year, it felt like he and Lopez were making all the clutch plays in the stretches where Giannis didn't play

[Moranis]

Holiday is obviously a better defender than Lillard, but Holiday is also not the same level of defender he was and he is only going to get worse.  In the final 2 games against the Heat, they needed someone to step up offensively and no one did it as their defense collapsed.  They are much better oositioned with Lillard to just outscore teams.

[Phantom255x]

Holiday is obviously a better defender than Lillard, but Holiday is also not the same level of defender he was and he is only going to get worse.  In the final 2 games against the Heat, they needed someone to step up offensively and no one did it as their defense collapsed.  They are much better oositioned with Lillard to just outscore teams.

I guess. I do think Lillard makes them better for sure, I just don't think it's by a huge margin. MIL can try to outscore teams but if teams are putting 120+ on them pretty regularly I'd be shocked if they can keep up. I also wonder, Lillard + Giannis have high usage rates. Maybe one guy tones it down and accepts a slightly lesser role, but would that affect their games in the process? We'll see.

I still think it's MIL/BOS/MIA in Tier 1 of the East. Then everyone else basically. Although MIA lost some key FAs this offseason too and really didn't add any major pieces.

[celticsclay]

Holiday is obviously a better defender than Lillard, but Holiday is also not the same level of defender he was and he is only going to get worse.  In the final 2 games against the Heat, they needed someone to step up offensively and no one did it as their defense collapsed.  They are much better oositioned with Lillard to just outscore teams.

I guess. I do think Lillard makes them better for sure, I just don't think it's by a huge margin. MIL can try to outscore teams but if teams are putting 120+ on them pretty regularly I'd be shocked if they can keep up. I also wonder, Lillard + Giannis have high usage rates. Maybe one guy tones it down and accepts a slightly lesser role, but would that affect their games in the process? We'll see.

I still think it's MIL/BOS/MIA in Tier 1 of the East. Then everyone else basically. Although MIA lost some key FAs this offseason too and really didn't add any major pieces.

I was thinking about how bad an off-season Miami has had now that they didn’t get Lilliard. They lost Strus and Vincent and only replacement was Richardson who is just being passed around the league now. Plus lowry and love are another year older and butler actually turns 34. It’s possible they could fall off a cliff without additional moves.

[Who]

The Damian Lillard trade looks great after that haul for Jrue Holiday. So Portland had:

Blazers receive: Jrue Holiday, Deandre Ayton, Toumani Camara, Bucks' 2029 first-round pick (unprotected), swap rights on Bucks' 2028 and 2030 picks

Now they have traded Jrue for Brogdon, Rob Williams 2024 GSW 1st, 2029 unprotected Celtics 1st.

Portland could trade Brogdon and Rob Williams and pickup at least another 1st for each one of them. Maybe 2 for Timelord. That would add 4-5 1sts on top of the one 1st they got from MIL along with two pick swaps and Ayton.

Trade looking great. Home run for Portland.

[BitterJim]

The Damian Lillard trade looks great after that haul for Jrue Holiday. So Portland had:

Blazers receive: Jrue Holiday, Deandre Ayton, Toumani Camara, Bucks' 2029 first-round pick (unprotected), swap rights on Bucks' 2028 and 2030 picks

Now they have traded Jrue for Brogdon, Rob Williams 2024 GSW 1st, 2029 unprotected Celtics 1st.

Portland could trade Brogdon and Rob Williams and pickup at least another 1st for each one of them. Maybe 2 for Timelord. That would add 4-5 1sts on top of the one 1st they got from MIL along with two pick swaps and Ayton.

Trade looking great. Home run for Portland.

I wonder if the Clippers are still interested. Sending Brogdon there for a first would be a great addition to the deal, especially if that pick was in the 2025-2027 range (since they already have a couple picks next year and more down the line. I think they're better off spreading them out a bit so they don't run into a situation where they don't have the roster space for all of their first)

[Kernewek]

Holiday is obviously a better defender than Lillard, but Holiday is also not the same level of defender he was and he is only going to get worse.  In the final 2 games against the Heat, they needed someone to step up offensively and no one did it as their defense collapsed.  They are much better oositioned with Lillard to just outscore teams.

I guess. I do think Lillard makes them better for sure, I just don't think it's by a huge margin. MIL can try to outscore teams but if teams are putting 120+ on them pretty regularly I'd be shocked if they can keep up. I also wonder, Lillard + Giannis have high usage rates. Maybe one guy tones it down and accepts a slightly lesser role, but would that affect their games in the process? We'll see.

I still think it's MIL/BOS/MIA in Tier 1 of the East. Then everyone else basically. Although MIA lost some key FAs this offseason too and really didn't add any major pieces.

I wouldn't put Miami up there - I think that's mostly recency bias. They looked decidedly mediocre all season long.

As far as Lillard and Giannis - both of them have just been teamed up with the best teammate they've ever had. I wouldn't expect them to stumble too much.

[Moranis]

The Damian Lillard trade looks great after that haul for Jrue Holiday. So Portland had:

Blazers receive: Jrue Holiday, Deandre Ayton, Toumani Camara, Bucks' 2029 first-round pick (unprotected), swap rights on Bucks' 2028 and 2030 picks

Now they have traded Jrue for Brogdon, Rob Williams 2024 GSW 1st, 2029 unprotected Celtics 1st.

Portland could trade Brogdon and Rob Williams and pickup at least another 1st for each one of them. Maybe 2 for Timelord. That would add 4-5 1sts on top of the one 1st they got from MIL along with two pick swaps and Ayton.

Trade looking great. Home run for Portland.

I wonder if the Clippers are still interested. Sending Brogdon there for a first would be a great addition to the deal, especially if that pick was in the 2025-2027 range (since they already have a couple picks next year and more down the line. I think they're better off spreading them out a bit so they don't run into a situation where they don't have the roster space for all of their first)

I don't think the Clippers can trade picks for awhile

[cman88]

bucks got worse defensively. but lets not forget that middleton is on the decline. hes no longer a #2 option. Jrue struggled to be that #2 option in the playoffs. he will fit much better as a #4 here on the celtics.

with giannis not commiting to stay. its a good move for the bucks to try and win now.

the Jrue move was a "nuclear" arms race sort of move to counter Dame.