Interesting take from Gabe Vincent on the Celtics in the ECF

[ChillyWilly]

One rolled ankle away from this comment not mattering.

One of us is misremembering that game.  I didn't see anything that made me think we'd win, even with a healthy Tatum.

Disagree on this. Tatum generally shows up to the biggest games. If anything, it showed us how this team would look if JB was our main guy. He’s an allstar and one of the best 1v1 scorers in the league but he can’t carry the load Tatum does. The handles, vision, and decision-making do him in

We got blown out, though, and Tatum still played.  A healthy Tatum turns a 19 point loss into a win?  To me, that's pretty hard to envision.

We had won 3 in a row and had momentum. An early game run might change this entire game and deflate Miami. I believe the ankle roll changed how this series was going to end.

[Celtics2021]

One rolled ankle away from this comment not mattering.

One of us is misremembering that game.  I didn't see anything that made me think we'd win, even with a healthy Tatum.

Disagree on this. Tatum generally shows up to the biggest games. If anything, it showed us how this team would look if JB was our main guy. He’s an allstar and one of the best 1v1 scorers in the league but he can’t carry the load Tatum does. The handles, vision, and decision-making do him in

We got blown out, though, and Tatum still played.  A healthy Tatum turns a 19 point loss into a win?  To me, that's pretty hard to envision.

We had won 3 in a row and had momentum. An early game run might change this entire game and deflate Miami. I believe the ankle roll changed how this series was going to end.

Absolutely did.  Obviously the entire game plan had to go out the window, because Tatum was going to be the center of that.  Also under discussed is how White got going in the third and we made a charge, only for him to hyperextend his knee and leave early.

Things went on early in that series, which is why it went 7, and you never want to be in a game 7 you don’t need to be in because you’re always a rolled ankle away from losing.  But if Tatum doesn’t roll that ankle, no one’s listening to Gabe Vincent, and he might have gotten a bit less money in free agency.  He certainly didn’t earn his new salary in the finals.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

One rolled ankle away from this comment not mattering.

One of us is misremembering that game.  I didn't see anything that made me think we'd win, even with a healthy Tatum.

Disagree on this. Tatum generally shows up to the biggest games. If anything, it showed us how this team would look if JB was our main guy. He’s an allstar and one of the best 1v1 scorers in the league but he can’t carry the load Tatum does. The handles, vision, and decision-making do him in

We got blown out, though, and Tatum still played.  A healthy Tatum turns a 19 point loss into a win?  To me, that's pretty hard to envision.

We had won 3 in a row and had momentum. An early game run might change this entire game and deflate Miami. I believe the ankle roll changed how this series was going to end.

Absolutely did.  Obviously the entire game plan had to go out the window, because Tatum was going to be the center of that.  Also under discussed is how White got going in the third and we made a charge, only for him to hyperextend his knee and leave early.

Things went on early in that series, which is why it went 7, and you never want to be in a game 7 you don’t need to be in because you’re always a rolled ankle away from losing.  But if Tatum doesn’t roll that ankle, no one’s listening to Gabe Vincent, and he might have gotten a bit less money in free agency.  He certainly didn’t earn his new salary in the finals.

I agree, and that series never should've gone that far. But it seems like every time I mention that the Cs are allowing a series to go longer than it should, the comment gets waved off like I don't know what I'm talking about. "Oh, they'll be fine," is the usual response I get. I guess "fine" means being eliminated from the playoffs.

But yeah, the Cs, especially, should end series as soon as possible because they have so many injury-prone players.

[SparzWizard]

One rolled ankle away from this comment not mattering.

One of us is misremembering that game.  I didn't see anything that made me think we'd win, even with a healthy Tatum.

Disagree on this. Tatum generally shows up to the biggest games. If anything, it showed us how this team would look if JB was our main guy. He’s an allstar and one of the best 1v1 scorers in the league but he can’t carry the load Tatum does. The handles, vision, and decision-making do him in

We got blown out, though, and Tatum still played.  A healthy Tatum turns a 19 point loss into a win?  To me, that's pretty hard to envision.

We had won 3 in a row and had momentum. An early game run might change this entire game and deflate Miami. I believe the ankle roll changed how this series was going to end.

Absolutely did.  Obviously the entire game plan had to go out the window, because Tatum was going to be the center of that.  Also under discussed is how White got going in the third and we made a charge, only for him to hyperextend his knee and leave early.

Things went on early in that series, which is why it went 7, and you never want to be in a game 7 you don’t need to be in because you’re always a rolled ankle away from losing.  But if Tatum doesn’t roll that ankle, no one’s listening to Gabe Vincent, and he might have gotten a bit less money in free agency.  He certainly didn’t earn his new salary in the finals.

I agree, and that series never should've gone that far. But it seems like every time I mention that the Cs are allowing a series to go longer than it should, the comment gets waved off like I don't know what I'm talking about. "Oh, they'll be fine," is the usual response I get. I guess "fine" means being eliminated from the playoffs.

But yeah, the Cs, especially, should end series as soon as possible because they have so many injury-prone players.

They're absolutely not "fine" if they can't close out a series quick. That Hawks series had no business going past 5. That 76ers series? What in the world. Why was the C's trailing 3-2 at one point and nearly lost Game 6 until Tatum woke up in the 4th Q.

All three of these series should not have gotten past 5 games if I'm being honest. Only teams that would've happened past 5 would be against the Knicks, Cavs, or Bucks.

[Celtics2021]

One rolled ankle away from this comment not mattering.

One of us is misremembering that game.  I didn't see anything that made me think we'd win, even with a healthy Tatum.

Disagree on this. Tatum generally shows up to the biggest games. If anything, it showed us how this team would look if JB was our main guy. He’s an allstar and one of the best 1v1 scorers in the league but he can’t carry the load Tatum does. The handles, vision, and decision-making do him in

We got blown out, though, and Tatum still played.  A healthy Tatum turns a 19 point loss into a win?  To me, that's pretty hard to envision.

We had won 3 in a row and had momentum. An early game run might change this entire game and deflate Miami. I believe the ankle roll changed how this series was going to end.

Absolutely did.  Obviously the entire game plan had to go out the window, because Tatum was going to be the center of that.  Also under discussed is how White got going in the third and we made a charge, only for him to hyperextend his knee and leave early.

Things went on early in that series, which is why it went 7, and you never want to be in a game 7 you don’t need to be in because you’re always a rolled ankle away from losing.  But if Tatum doesn’t roll that ankle, no one’s listening to Gabe Vincent, and he might have gotten a bit less money in free agency.  He certainly didn’t earn his new salary in the finals.

I agree, and that series never should've gone that far. But it seems like every time I mention that the Cs are allowing a series to go longer than it should, the comment gets waved off like I don't know what I'm talking about. "Oh, they'll be fine," is the usual response I get. I guess "fine" means being eliminated from the playoffs.

But yeah, the Cs, especially, should end series as soon as possible because they have so many injury-prone players.

They're absolutely not "fine" if they can't close out a series quick. That Hawks series had no business going past 5. That 76ers series? What in the world. Why was the C's trailing 3-2 at one point and nearly lost Game 6 until Tatum woke up in the 4th Q.

All three of these series should not have gotten past 5 games if I'm being honest. Only teams that would've happened past 5 would be against the Knicks, Cavs, or Bucks.

How is that any different from last year’s team that kept going 7?  Or a couple years earlier when we nearly gave up a 3-0 lead vs. Toronto in the bubble?  Vincent says it was something “different” this year, but this has been the Celtics’ M.O. a few seasons, and sometimes it comes back to bite them.  What have been our chief complaints about this team, for several years?  1) They give up 4th quarter leads because they stop scoring, and 2) They complain too much to the refs.

In the Heat series, they lost Game 1 because the Heat couldn’t miss.  It’s the NBA, it happens.  Maybe one might argue they left the Heat open too much, but the stats don’t really back that theory up.  Game 2, 4th quarter meltdown.  Game 3 Tony Brothers meltdown and they got blown out. Then they win Games 4-6, although they almost gave up Game 6 in the 4th again.  Then Game 7 and Tatum’s ankle happened.

There was nothing especially different about how this series went that felt different in 2023 than other years.  Nor how the Philly series went.  The Celtics’ flaws are nothing new.  They do need correcting, and perhaps the moves Stevens made this off-season will help in that regard.  But Vincent’s comments are not especially enlightening, in that winning teams always see a “weakness” in the losing team, and a lot of these series could have gone the other way.  Heck, the Celtics were arguably a Jimmy Butler drive rather than a pull-up 3 from losing to the Heat last year.  And now since the Heat won this year when Tatum busted his ankle, things are suddenly terribly different?  Nonsense.

[tenn_smoothie]

Yeah, feels like lack of trust/confidence in the coaching staff is the obvious answer.

Some of the roster decisions seem to make sense in this light. But if this is true, not sure that doubling down on Joe was the right call, even with the excellent assistants brought in.

Gee, you think ?

I'm blaming Brad at this point, maybe ownership a little as well. We ain't winning anything with this idiot as our head coach.
Stevens is wasting the prime years of a championship roster. When are we going to get some real NBA pros in here to run and coach this team ?

[Surferdad]

Yeah, feels like lack of trust/confidence in the coaching staff is the obvious answer.

Some of the roster decisions seem to make sense in this light. But if this is true, not sure that doubling down on Joe was the right call, even with the excellent assistants brought in.

Gee, you think ?

I'm blaming Brad at this point, maybe ownership a little as well. We ain't winning anything with this idiot as our head coach.
Stevens is wasting the prime years of a championship roster. When are we going to get some real NBA pros in here to run and coach this team ?

Sam Cassell doesn't count?

[celticinorlando]

Brad never got Joe any vet coaching. A lot of people were asking for a vet guy to be brought when Joe was named coach but none ever were. That was a huge issue.

This year having Cassell and Lee will be big. Both those two could be head coaches in the NBA right now.

[footey]

One rolled ankle away from this comment not mattering.

One of us is misremembering that game.  I didn't see anything that made me think we'd win, even with a healthy Tatum.

Disagree on this. Tatum generally shows up to the biggest games. If anything, it showed us how this team would look if JB was our main guy. He’s an allstar and one of the best 1v1 scorers in the league but he can’t carry the load Tatum does. The handles, vision, and decision-making do him in

We got blown out, though, and Tatum still played.  A healthy Tatum turns a 19 point loss into a win?  To me, that's pretty hard to envision.

We had won 3 in a row and had momentum. An early game run might change this entire game and deflate Miami. I believe the ankle roll changed how this series was going to end.

Absolutely did.  Obviously the entire game plan had to go out the window, because Tatum was going to be the center of that.  Also under discussed is how White got going in the third and we made a charge, only for him to hyperextend his knee and leave early.

Things went on early in that series, which is why it went 7, and you never want to be in a game 7 you don’t need to be in because you’re always a rolled ankle away from losing.  But if Tatum doesn’t roll that ankle, no one’s listening to Gabe Vincent, and he might have gotten a bit less money in free agency.  He certainly didn’t earn his new salary in the finals.

I agree, and that series never should've gone that far. But it seems like every time I mention that the Cs are allowing a series to go longer than it should, the comment gets waved off like I don't know what I'm talking about. "Oh, they'll be fine," is the usual response I get. I guess "fine" means being eliminated from the playoffs.

But yeah, the Cs, especially, should end series as soon as possible because they have so many injury-prone players.

They're absolutely not "fine" if they can't close out a series quick. That Hawks series had no business going past 5. That 76ers series? What in the world. Why was the C's trailing 3-2 at one point and nearly lost Game 6 until Tatum woke up in the 4th Q.

All three of these series should not have gotten past 5 games if I'm being honest. Only teams that would've happened past 5 would be against the Knicks, Cavs, or Bucks.

How is that any different from last year’s team that kept going 7?  Or a couple years earlier when we nearly gave up a 3-0 lead vs. Toronto in the bubble?  Vincent says it was something “different” this year, but this has been the Celtics’ M.O. a few seasons, and sometimes it comes back to bite them.  What have been our chief complaints about this team, for several years?  1) They give up 4th quarter leads because they stop scoring, and 2) They complain too much to the refs.

In the Heat series, they lost Game 1 because the Heat couldn’t miss.  It’s the NBA, it happens.  Maybe one might argue they left the Heat open too much, but the stats don’t really back that theory up.  Game 2, 4th quarter meltdown.  Game 3 Tony Brothers meltdown and they got blown out. Then they win Games 4-6, although they almost gave up Game 6 in the 4th again.  Then Game 7 and Tatum’s ankle happened.

There was nothing especially different about how this series went that felt different in 2023 than other years.  Nor how the Philly series went.  The Celtics’ flaws are nothing new.  They do need correcting, and perhaps the moves Stevens made this off-season will help in that regard.  But Vincent’s comments are not especially enlightening, in that winning teams always see a “weakness” in the losing team, and a lot of these series could have gone the other way.  Heck, the Celtics were arguably a Jimmy Butler drive rather than a pull-up 3 from losing to the Heat last year.  And now since the Heat won this year when Tatum busted his ankle, things are suddenly terribly different?  Nonsense.

Joe haters won't acknowledge this.  The differences between 2023 playoffs and 2022 was one missed 3 point shot by Jimmy Butler. 

[cman88]

One rolled ankle away from this comment not mattering.

One of us is misremembering that game.  I didn't see anything that made me think we'd win, even with a healthy Tatum.

Disagree on this. Tatum generally shows up to the biggest games. If anything, it showed us how this team would look if JB was our main guy. He’s an allstar and one of the best 1v1 scorers in the league but he can’t carry the load Tatum does. The handles, vision, and decision-making do him in

We got blown out, though, and Tatum still played.  A healthy Tatum turns a 19 point loss into a win?  To me, that's pretty hard to envision.

We had won 3 in a row and had momentum. An early game run might change this entire game and deflate Miami. I believe the ankle roll changed how this series was going to end.

Absolutely did.  Obviously the entire game plan had to go out the window, because Tatum was going to be the center of that.  Also under discussed is how White got going in the third and we made a charge, only for him to hyperextend his knee and leave early.

Things went on early in that series, which is why it went 7, and you never want to be in a game 7 you don’t need to be in because you’re always a rolled ankle away from losing.  But if Tatum doesn’t roll that ankle, no one’s listening to Gabe Vincent, and he might have gotten a bit less money in free agency.  He certainly didn’t earn his new salary in the finals.

I agree, and that series never should've gone that far. But it seems like every time I mention that the Cs are allowing a series to go longer than it should, the comment gets waved off like I don't know what I'm talking about. "Oh, they'll be fine," is the usual response I get. I guess "fine" means being eliminated from the playoffs.

But yeah, the Cs, especially, should end series as soon as possible because they have so many injury-prone players.

They're absolutely not "fine" if they can't close out a series quick. That Hawks series had no business going past 5. That 76ers series? What in the world. Why was the C's trailing 3-2 at one point and nearly lost Game 6 until Tatum woke up in the 4th Q.

All three of these series should not have gotten past 5 games if I'm being honest. Only teams that would've happened past 5 would be against the Knicks, Cavs, or Bucks.

How is that any different from last year’s team that kept going 7?  Or a couple years earlier when we nearly gave up a 3-0 lead vs. Toronto in the bubble?  Vincent says it was something “different” this year, but this has been the Celtics’ M.O. a few seasons, and sometimes it comes back to bite them.  What have been our chief complaints about this team, for several years?  1) They give up 4th quarter leads because they stop scoring, and 2) They complain too much to the refs.

In the Heat series, they lost Game 1 because the Heat couldn’t miss.  It’s the NBA, it happens.  Maybe one might argue they left the Heat open too much, but the stats don’t really back that theory up.  Game 2, 4th quarter meltdown.  Game 3 Tony Brothers meltdown and they got blown out. Then they win Games 4-6, although they almost gave up Game 6 in the 4th again.  Then Game 7 and Tatum’s ankle happened.

There was nothing especially different about how this series went that felt different in 2023 than other years.  Nor how the Philly series went.  The Celtics’ flaws are nothing new.  They do need correcting, and perhaps the moves Stevens made this off-season will help in that regard.  But Vincent’s comments are not especially enlightening, in that winning teams always see a “weakness” in the losing team, and a lot of these series could have gone the other way.  Heck, the Celtics were arguably a Jimmy Butler drive rather than a pull-up 3 from losing to the Heat last year.  And now since the Heat won this year when Tatum busted his ankle, things are suddenly terribly different?  Nonsense.

Joe haters won't acknowledge this.  The differences between 2023 playoffs and 2022 was one missed 3 point shot by Jimmy Butler.

there really wasnt, and why we lost the finals against golden state was the same reasons we lost this year against Miami. it never was for lack of talent there is something wrong mentally with this team and its been the same for 3 coaches now.

clearly brad didnt think everything was alright which is why he took a flamethrower to the roster and brought in Porzingis.

[hpantazo]

One rolled ankle away from this comment not mattering.

One of us is misremembering that game.  I didn't see anything that made me think we'd win, even with a healthy Tatum.

Disagree on this. Tatum generally shows up to the biggest games. If anything, it showed us how this team would look if JB was our main guy. He’s an allstar and one of the best 1v1 scorers in the league but he can’t carry the load Tatum does. The handles, vision, and decision-making do him in

We got blown out, though, and Tatum still played.  A healthy Tatum turns a 19 point loss into a win?  To me, that's pretty hard to envision.

We had won 3 in a row and had momentum. An early game run might change this entire game and deflate Miami. I believe the ankle roll changed how this series was going to end.

Absolutely did.  Obviously the entire game plan had to go out the window, because Tatum was going to be the center of that.  Also under discussed is how White got going in the third and we made a charge, only for him to hyperextend his knee and leave early.

Things went on early in that series, which is why it went 7, and you never want to be in a game 7 you don’t need to be in because you’re always a rolled ankle away from losing.  But if Tatum doesn’t roll that ankle, no one’s listening to Gabe Vincent, and he might have gotten a bit less money in free agency.  He certainly didn’t earn his new salary in the finals.

I agree, and that series never should've gone that far. But it seems like every time I mention that the Cs are allowing a series to go longer than it should, the comment gets waved off like I don't know what I'm talking about. "Oh, they'll be fine," is the usual response I get. I guess "fine" means being eliminated from the playoffs.

But yeah, the Cs, especially, should end series as soon as possible because they have so many injury-prone players.

They're absolutely not "fine" if they can't close out a series quick. That Hawks series had no business going past 5. That 76ers series? What in the world. Why was the C's trailing 3-2 at one point and nearly lost Game 6 until Tatum woke up in the 4th Q.

All three of these series should not have gotten past 5 games if I'm being honest. Only teams that would've happened past 5 would be against the Knicks, Cavs, or Bucks.

How is that any different from last year’s team that kept going 7?  Or a couple years earlier when we nearly gave up a 3-0 lead vs. Toronto in the bubble?  Vincent says it was something “different” this year, but this has been the Celtics’ M.O. a few seasons, and sometimes it comes back to bite them.  What have been our chief complaints about this team, for several years?  1) They give up 4th quarter leads because they stop scoring, and 2) They complain too much to the refs.

In the Heat series, they lost Game 1 because the Heat couldn’t miss.  It’s the NBA, it happens.  Maybe one might argue they left the Heat open too much, but the stats don’t really back that theory up.  Game 2, 4th quarter meltdown.  Game 3 Tony Brothers meltdown and they got blown out. Then they win Games 4-6, although they almost gave up Game 6 in the 4th again.  Then Game 7 and Tatum’s ankle happened.

There was nothing especially different about how this series went that felt different in 2023 than other years.  Nor how the Philly series went.  The Celtics’ flaws are nothing new.  They do need correcting, and perhaps the moves Stevens made this off-season will help in that regard.  But Vincent’s comments are not especially enlightening, in that winning teams always see a “weakness” in the losing team, and a lot of these series could have gone the other way.  Heck, the Celtics were arguably a Jimmy Butler drive rather than a pull-up 3 from losing to the Heat last year.  And now since the Heat won this year when Tatum busted his ankle, things are suddenly terribly different?  Nonsense.

Joe haters won't acknowledge this.  The differences between 2023 playoffs and 2022 was one missed 3 point shot by Jimmy Butler.

there really wasnt, and why we lost the finals against golden state was the same reasons we lost this year against Miami. it never was for lack of talent there is something wrong mentally with this team and its been the same for 3 coaches now.

clearly brad didnt think everything was alright which is why he took a flamethrower to the roster and brought in Porzingis.

That's right, and Brad knows the core of those teams better than anyone. If he thought certain guys were not working together, I trust him. They sure as heck gave that core enough chances together.

[timpiker]

I think Tatum would’ve been the difference maker. Not the hottest take, I know. But if Tatum doesn’t get injured on Gabe Vincent, X’s would’ve gone to the finals (and got crushed lol)

I'd rather the C's get in the Finals and get crushed (by the Nuggets) than to lose to a #8 seed in Game 7 at home in the ECF

Yes.  Absolutely.  And the game proved that JB is NOT a Max $ player.  $300M...OMG this is sick.

[Alleyoopster]

Maz's lack of trust in his reserves during the season and in the playoffs hurt the team. Next season may be even tougher to trust the reserves. The only real shooter Brad brought in was Porzingus.

We shipped out our best defensive guard and lost a very decent role player who kept teams honest with his 3-point shooting. Maz's job will be much tougher even addional veteran assistant coaching.

One overlooked factor that the medical squad should have picked up on was Brogdon's injury. Why he kept playing when he was hurt baffles me.

[No Nickname]

All other things being equal, would we have gotten to the Finals if Ime had remained the head coach?

Would we have won it?

[keevsnick]

All of that is well and good but in reality I think the C's lost becasue they shot 30.3% from three and the Heat shot 43.% from three.

It really does not need to be more complicated than that. This is again one of those dumb things people do where they have to read in feelings, motivation, intangibles, chemistry ect to a situation where another team just played better at one of the more important on court factors, shooting.

The C's took 8.8 MORE threes a game than the Heat, but made 1.1 FEWER threes a game. That is just a killer.

Normalize the shooting to 35% for both teams and the c's run away with this series easily.