Brogdon to Clippers idea

[jay]

If the Clippers are still after Brogdon- what about going for Mann and Zubac? Gives us more depth on the wings and up front.  Then go hard after a veteran PG in free agency.  Patrick Beverly and Cory Joseph are off the board now not sure who's left.

[JSD]

It would be great to bring someone from Lowell back to Boston, but I personally believe that what Brogdon brings to our team is more valuable than the bench depth we could acquire through free agency.

[celticsclay]

I would be a tiny bit shocked if clippers don’t trade for harden at this point.

[action781]

I would be a tiny bit shocked if clippers don’t trade for harden at this point.

I just don't see LAC as having a good enough offer to get it.  I think there are teams who would give up more to get Harden.

Could something like this work for all 3 teams?

Orlando trades: Fultz, Isaac, Suggs, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)
Orlando gets: Harden, Korkmaz

Philly trades: Harden, Korkmaz
Philly gets: Siakam, Suggs

Toronto trades: Siakam
Toronto gets: Fultz, Isaac, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)

[Who]

I would be a tiny bit shocked if clippers don’t trade for harden at this point.

I just don't see LAC as having a good enough offer to get it.  I think there are teams who would give up more to get Harden.

Could something like this work for all 3 teams?

Orlando trades: Fultz, Isaac, Suggs, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)
Orlando gets: Harden, Korkmaz

Philly trades: Harden, Korkmaz
Philly gets: Siakam, Suggs

Toronto trades: Siakam
Toronto gets: Fultz, Isaac, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)

This made me think of a different trade. One that Toronto would not do but I find interesting.

James Harden for Scottie Barnes.

There is a cap problem there. Maybe they can swing in a three team trade with Houston signing VanVleet as a cap makeweight to make the numbers work somehow. Anway, Toronto's team:

G: J Harden, D Schroder
G: Gary Trent Jr
F: Anunoby, G Dick
F: Siakam, O Porter
C: Poeltl, P Achiuwa

That is a pretty sweet team. Solid starting center, adequate backup. Strong starting forwards. Both top 10 at their respective positions. Good shootin bench forwards. Thad Young and Boucher behind them. Maybe someone else as well. Oh Jalen McDaniels. A very interesting three guard backcourt. Harden gets to have the offense run through him. Gary Trent in a similar role as Eric Gordon back in Harden's Houston Rockets days. Trent can guard opposing PGs. D Schroder as the playmaker when Harden goes to the bench. Bring in another shooter to be backup SG.

That would be a tough team to play against. That is a serious team. A lot of talent at forward alongside Harden. Good size & length. Good depth.

Harden is so old that is hard to give up a prospect like Scottie Barnes for him. I don't think Toronto would do that. But darn it, they would have a dang good team if they did.

I do wonder sometimes if Toronto is missing an opportunity by not trading Scottie Barnes. They have such good quality forwards with Anunoby and Siakam. If they traded Barnes for an established star guard, that Toronto team could be one of the better teams in the league. Not saying Harden is the right guy for it given his age but an interesting figure to show the idea of trading S Barnes for a star guard.

[Who]

I would be a tiny bit shocked if clippers don’t trade for harden at this point.

I just don't see LAC as having a good enough offer to get it.  I think there are teams who would give up more to get Harden.

Could something like this work for all 3 teams?

Orlando trades: Fultz, Isaac, Suggs, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)
Orlando gets: Harden, Korkmaz

Philly trades: Harden, Korkmaz
Philly gets: Siakam, Suggs

Toronto trades: Siakam
Toronto gets: Fultz, Isaac, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)

I'd love to see Orlando make a move and try be better. I don't think they will. They are so methodical and frankly ... I think they are happy losing, rebuilding and being in a low pressure environment where their bad GM can scam a few million more out of their absentee owner before he gets found out for the fraud he is.

Anyway, back to the trade.

I like the return for Philly. Strong return for Harden. Siakam is a very good player. So he would start at PF next to T Harris at SF and they have PJ Tucker off the bench. I don't love Siakam next to Embiid because I don't trust his jump-shot but he is likely far better than they can expect anyone else to give up for Harden so I'm in for Philly.

Pretty good return for Toronto for Siakam. Appearently he is refusing to sign a new contract unless it is a super-max. Or he is trying to have a big year next season in order to get a super-max. Something like that. His next contract is a problem is what I am saying. His current deal is almost up. That is a solid return for Toronto given this situation.

Orlando: Suggs and two firsts for Harden. And cap filler.

So the Magic would be:

G: C Anthony,
G: J Harden, A Black
F: F Wagner, Jett Howard
F: Banchero, Bol Bol
C: W Carter Jr, Mo Wagner

I don't love the fit of Harden. He is a big time ball-handler but so too are Orlando's other perimeter guys. Banchero is an on-ball creator. C Anthony is an on-ball creator. F Wagner is on-ball & off-ball but benefits from the extra touches he gets in Orlando. Only one ball. A bit of a squeeze.

If Orlando was to go all-in with Harden, I'd like to see them trade off their two most recent draft picks A Black and Jett Howard in separate deals to bring in veteran help. They are not ready for a title run. Orlando needs to improve their bench. Maybe move C Anthony back to a 6th man role so he can be more of a focal point in the offense while Harden rests. With some more work you might be able to turn them into a title contender.

Overall though, I believe Orlando stays put and goes with a "slow but steady" team building plan.

The value is good in terms of getting Harden for what ORL is giving up (Suggs, two 1sts) but Harden doesn't fit their timeline or their current personnel well.

[action781]

I would be a tiny bit shocked if clippers don’t trade for harden at this point.

I just don't see LAC as having a good enough offer to get it.  I think there are teams who would give up more to get Harden.

Could something like this work for all 3 teams?

Orlando trades: Fultz, Isaac, Suggs, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)
Orlando gets: Harden, Korkmaz

Philly trades: Harden, Korkmaz
Philly gets: Siakam, Suggs

Toronto trades: Siakam
Toronto gets: Fultz, Isaac, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)

I'd love to see Orlando make a move and try be better. I don't think they will. They are so methodical and frankly ... I think they are happy losing, rebuilding and being in a low pressure environment where their bad GM can scam a few million more out of their absentee owner before he gets found out for the fraud he is.

Anyway, back to the trade.

I like the return for Philly. Strong return for Harden. Siakam is a very good player. So he would start at PF next to T Harris at SF and they have PJ Tucker off the bench. I don't love Siakam next to Embiid because I don't trust his jump-shot but he is likely far better than they can expect anyone else to give up for Harden so I'm in for Philly.

Pretty good return for Toronto for Siakam. Appearently he is refusing to sign a new contract unless it is a super-max. Or he is trying to have a big year next season in order to get a super-max. Something like that. His next contract is a problem is what I am saying. His current deal is almost up. That is a solid return for Toronto given this situation.

Orlando: Suggs and two firsts for Harden. And cap filler.

So the Magic would be:

G: C Anthony,
G: J Harden, A Black
F: F Wagner, Jett Howard
F: Banchero, Bol Bol
C: W Carter Jr, Mo Wagner

I don't love the fit of Harden. He is a big time ball-handler but so too are Orlando's other perimeter guys. Banchero is an on-ball creator. C Anthony is an on-ball creator. F Wagner is on-ball & off-ball but benefits from the extra touches he gets in Orlando. Only one ball. A bit of a squeeze.

If Orlando was to go all-in with Harden, I'd like to see them trade off their two most recent draft picks A Black and Jett Howard in separate deals to bring in veteran help. They are not ready for a title run. Orlando needs to improve their bench. Maybe move C Anthony back to a 6th man role so he can be more of a focal point in the offense while Harden rests. With some more work you might be able to turn them into a title contender.

Overall though, I believe Orlando stays put and goes with a "slow but steady" team building plan.

The value is good in terms of getting Harden for what ORL is giving up (Suggs, two 1sts) but Harden doesn't fit their timeline or their current personnel well.

I actually like Gary Harris' shooting in that starting lineup better and thought it would be:

Harden / Cole
Gary Harris / Black
Franz / Jett
Paolo / Bol
Carter / Mo

Hopefully landing another SG/SF 3 and D guy off the bench.  Harden has made a lot of those types of players look really good in the past, so you can probably get some buy-low players via trade or free agency.

Harden definitely doesn't fit Orlando's timeline.  I also agree they're probably in more of a slow and steady mindset and don't know if they'd do it either.

I still think there is going to be some team out there, like Orlando with maybe a lesser offer than this, that can outbid LAC for Harden.  I think that team could be one that was initially not ready to compete but suddenly realize Harden could get them there sooner and expose their young players to a winning culture.

Would the Pelicans trade CJ for Harden?

[action781]

If the Clippers are still after Brogdon- what about going for Mann and Zubac? Gives us more depth on the wings and up front.  Then go hard after a veteran PG in free agency.  Patrick Beverly and Cory Joseph are off the board now not sure who's left.

Sorry for hijacking the thread with the Harden talk.

I have zero interest in Zubac.  I feel like with Rob, Al, and Porzingis we've got our C position pretty set.  I like Brogdon and wouldn't want to swap him for Mann + some over the hill vet PG like Wall or Dragic.

[Who]

I would be a tiny bit shocked if clippers don’t trade for harden at this point.

I just don't see LAC as having a good enough offer to get it.  I think there are teams who would give up more to get Harden.

Could something like this work for all 3 teams?

Orlando trades: Fultz, Isaac, Suggs, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)
Orlando gets: Harden, Korkmaz

Philly trades: Harden, Korkmaz
Philly gets: Siakam, Suggs

Toronto trades: Siakam
Toronto gets: Fultz, Isaac, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)

I'd love to see Orlando make a move and try be better. I don't think they will. They are so methodical and frankly ... I think they are happy losing, rebuilding and being in a low pressure environment where their bad GM can scam a few million more out of their absentee owner before he gets found out for the fraud he is.

Anyway, back to the trade.

I like the return for Philly. Strong return for Harden. Siakam is a very good player. So he would start at PF next to T Harris at SF and they have PJ Tucker off the bench. I don't love Siakam next to Embiid because I don't trust his jump-shot but he is likely far better than they can expect anyone else to give up for Harden so I'm in for Philly.

Pretty good return for Toronto for Siakam. Appearently he is refusing to sign a new contract unless it is a super-max. Or he is trying to have a big year next season in order to get a super-max. Something like that. His next contract is a problem is what I am saying. His current deal is almost up. That is a solid return for Toronto given this situation.

Orlando: Suggs and two firsts for Harden. And cap filler.

So the Magic would be:

G: C Anthony,
G: J Harden, A Black
F: F Wagner, Jett Howard
F: Banchero, Bol Bol
C: W Carter Jr, Mo Wagner

I don't love the fit of Harden. He is a big time ball-handler but so too are Orlando's other perimeter guys. Banchero is an on-ball creator. C Anthony is an on-ball creator. F Wagner is on-ball & off-ball but benefits from the extra touches he gets in Orlando. Only one ball. A bit of a squeeze.

If Orlando was to go all-in with Harden, I'd like to see them trade off their two most recent draft picks A Black and Jett Howard in separate deals to bring in veteran help. They are not ready for a title run. Orlando needs to improve their bench. Maybe move C Anthony back to a 6th man role so he can be more of a focal point in the offense while Harden rests. With some more work you might be able to turn them into a title contender.

Overall though, I believe Orlando stays put and goes with a "slow but steady" team building plan.

The value is good in terms of getting Harden for what ORL is giving up (Suggs, two 1sts) but Harden doesn't fit their timeline or their current personnel well.

I actually like Gary Harris' shooting in that starting lineup better and thought it would be:

Harden / Cole
Gary Harris / Black
Franz / Jett
Paolo / Bol
Carter / Mo

Hopefully landing another SG/SF 3 and D guy off the bench.  Harden has made a lot of those types of players look really good in the past, so you can probably get some buy-low players via trade or free agency.

Harden definitely doesn't fit Orlando's timeline.  I also agree they're probably in more of a slow and steady mindset and don't know if they'd do it either.

I still think there is going to be some team out there, like Orlando with maybe a lesser offer than this, that can outbid LAC for Harden.  I think that team could be one that was initially not ready to compete but suddenly realize Harden could get them there sooner and expose their young players to a winning culture.

Would the Pelicans trade CJ for Harden?

I forgot Gary Harris! Agreed. He'd be really good next to Harden. He can supply the defense at PG and give good enough offense on the other end of the floor. Cole Anthony can move to his 6th man role. Best roster balance.

[Who]

If the Clippers are still after Brogdon- what about going for Mann and Zubac? Gives us more depth on the wings and up front.  Then go hard after a veteran PG in free agency.  Patrick Beverly and Cory Joseph are off the board now not sure who's left.

Sorry for hijacking the thread with the Harden talk.

I have zero interest in Zubac.  I feel like with Rob, Al, and Porzingis we've got our C position pretty set.  I like Brogdon and wouldn't want to swap him for Mann + some over the hill vet PG like Wall or Dragic.

I am the same with Zubac. We don't need another center. We need a PF. Porzingis and Timelord need to play center.

And the same with T Mann. I really like him but I like Brogdon more.

[celticsclay]

I would be a tiny bit shocked if clippers don’t trade for harden at this point.

I just don't see LAC as having a good enough offer to get it.  I think there are teams who would give up more to get Harden.

Could something like this work for all 3 teams?

Orlando trades: Fultz, Isaac, Suggs, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)
Orlando gets: Harden, Korkmaz

Philly trades: Harden, Korkmaz
Philly gets: Siakam, Suggs

Toronto trades: Siakam
Toronto gets: Fultz, Isaac, 2024 first, 2025 first (DEN)

Why do you think harden in an expiring deal has massive value? Powell and filler and a first rounder would be a steal.

[Who]

Would the Pelicans trade CJ for Harden?

I haven't seen NOP connected to Harden at all. I've seen CJ mentioned a couple of times here. That old McCollum for Ben Simmons trade discussion prior to getting Harden. The old would CJ have been better for Philly than Harden question.

It is strange that there is no smoke there. I visited a couple of Pelicans blogs after seeing this and saw no discussion of it as a possibility there either. Also surprising.