Jaylen Brown Supermax

[johnnygreen]

If Jaylen is sick of his name being in trade rumors, then that's his fault. We don't see Tatum's name in rumors because his play on the court has made him simply un-tradeable. If Jaylen wants that respect, he shouldn't be asking for it for negotiations like a little baby. Prove yourself on the court, which he hasn't. At this point, he's still unfillfulled potential, which is why trade rumors start.

I keep on seeing/hearing about how Jaylen took a below the market contract the last time and the team should make up for it this time around. No one forced Jaylen to sign the last deal, so why should the last contract matter now?

I don't think Jaylen is worth the supermax, but I do want to see something happen regarding his situation. He is essentially an athletic 3&D player. He shows signs of being a great player for like  5 minute spurts during games, but settles as being that 3&D player for the rest of the game. If he doesn't break that pattern, that supermax contract will be an albatross on this team.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

My gosh. The disrespect to Jaylen on this board is rough.

[Vermont Green]

See I VERY strongly disagree with the idea that they underachieved in any way. They've made 4 ECF with those guys, one NBA finals. All they haven't done is win one, but in the history of the NBA you typically don't win one unless you have a guy playing at a clear MVP level. The Nuggets had Jokic, The Bucks had Giannis, The Lakers had Lebron and AD playing and shooting out of his mind, Raptors had Kawhi, GSW had Durant/Curry. That's what it takes to win.

Tatum has been great, but he'd never quite had a run like that, and until he does i don't think you can say they've underachieved relative to their talent. The stuff about "well, they struggled at times against teams they are better than" is nonsense to me. Like, who cares? They WON THOSE SERIES. Its just sort of crazy to me to watch a team win as much as this team does, with those two guys, in the PRE-PRIME years and complain that somehow they don't win well enough. Like sure they win, but they need to win better somehow? Bottom line if they want to win it all either Tatum needs to take a step to true MVP  level, OR Brown needs to take a leep to top 10-15 level AND they need some shooting luck.

Like ya, they lost to the Heat. That was maybe the first loss of the Tatum/Brown led era that felt disappointing, like they were clearly better. But.......the Heat also Beat the #1 seeded Bucks, and they shot like 45% from three. So I don't know, weird stuff happens.

I am not sure I am following all of this but is the crux of the debate that we should trade Brown because we have not won a title (implying some level of underachievement)?  Or that Brown is unhappy and wants out of Boston?

We just did a major trade, Smart for Porzingis.  It is still Brown and Tatum at the top but the complexion of the balance of the core of the team has been changed dramatically with this trade.  All indications are that we will extend Brown and not be able to trade him for a year.  If things go horribly bad this coming season, then trading Brown could be a consideration at that time.  Or a new coach, or any number of things.  I feel that extending him is clearly the best path forward.

But I am also not entirely opposed to trading Brown, if it is a really great trade.  Trades like that are hard to make and it is very unlikely one would happen.  I admit that if these reports of Brown trying to get trade kickers and ETO options are true, I find that a little greedy on his part.  This max extension, just as it is, is a awesome contract for Brown.  If he is thinking "Tatum got an ETO so I want an ETO" or whatever, that to me is a bad signal.  At one level, it is part of business to get the best contract possible, and if this is just part of the negotiation, that is fine, but if he really feels he his being mistreated or whatever, that to me is not a good sign.  I have no idea even if the reports are true, much less what is in Brown's head, I am just speculating.

I'm not either. But that's not usually the argument people who want to trade him make. The argument is he's a bad fit with Tatum (not true), that the team has something wrong with its chemistry (no, they don't), or that he won't be movable on his new contract (wrong, imo).

The one opinion Brown has expressed clearly is he's tired of being in trade rumors, and that IS ENTIRELY FAIR. I mean he's been mentioned in trades for Butler, George, Davis, Kawhi, Durant, Harden, Lillard, Sabonis just off the top of my head since being drafted. I think that annoyance is to some extent justified. We as fans can justify it and say "well, its not insulting to be in trade rumors for those guys" but to the actual player if it keeps happening I get the frustration.

Also on the contract negotiations: The issue can't be a NTC, he's not eligible for one. Its probably not a trade kicker because a trade kicker can't increase your salary past a player's max, which he's already going to get, so its kind of a moot point. Well, unless he's willing to take less than his max then a trade kicker would matter.   

The only things really negotiable here are the actual pay (between 30-35% of the cap), whether there are incentives built in like his current contract has, or whether the final year is a team, player or no option (contract must be 5 years). That's it. If the issue is a PO i don't think that's crazy on Brown's part. A lot of guys get that player option. It can be a big deal to become a free agent a year earlier, gives a guy the option to sign another long term deal in his early thirties.

Brown should fight for the absolute best contract he can. He's a leader of the NBAPA, and on top of that his last contract ended up being a bargain. I'm not going to criticize a guy for fighting for every inch in that situation.

We are very much on the same page.  Brown and Tatum may not be the perfect fit, more of a ball handler could be a better fit, but that certainly does not make them a "bad" fit.  Ultimately, they are both All-NBA players.  That means more to me than whether they are a perfect fit or not.  Less talent but better fit is not usually going to be better overall.  It might be in the case of someone who is as talented as Lillard, but not in a general sense.

As to the contract, I think it would be fair to lower the overall value of the contract down from 35% but include back in player friendly aspects like a trade kicker, unlikely incentives, or ETO.  That could work well for both parties.  You could be right on the trade chatter.  We can't give him a no trade clause as I understand it, nor should we, but the trade kicker could help reduce the trade chatter some.  The ETO gives Brown a chance to trade the last year of this contract for probably a significantly larger first year of a new contract.  And incentives are good for both parties but tend to favor the player more.

[RJ87]

I keep on seeing/hearing about how Jaylen took a below the market contract the last time and the team should make up for it this time around. No one forced Jaylen to sign the last deal, so why should the last contract matter now?

And many here considered the contract an overpay at the time.

[keevsnick]

I keep on seeing/hearing about how Jaylen took a below the market contract the last time and the team should make up for it this time around. No one forced Jaylen to sign the last deal, so why should the last contract matter now?

And many here considered the contract an overpay at the time.

Nobody is saying he should be mad or slighted about being underpaid, it was a fair deal at the time exchanging top end dollars for security.

But it doesn't change the fact that deal did end up underpaying him, and so I'd think as a result he is more likely than not to resist taking less this time.

[green_bballers13]

My gosh. The disrespect to Jaylen on this board is rough.

Yes. Jaylen was 13th in scoring in the NBA last year at 26.6ppg. If the Celtics get rid of him, they will immediately be looking for a player that can score like this (they are not easy to find).

[jambr380]

My gosh. The disrespect to Jaylen on this board is rough.

Yes. Jaylen was 13th in scoring in the NBA last year at 26.6ppg. If the Celtics get rid of him, they will immediately be looking for a player that can score like this (they are not easy to find).

Leaving out the fact that we would be trading Jaylen for a very attractive package, we did just acquire a player who scored 23ppg last season.

[Celtics4ever]

I love Jaylen Brown  for the record.   We are lucky to have him.   Is he perfect, heck no.   But is he a darn fine NBA player.

This is world of the new CBA folks

Jaylen has to maximize his earnings as a pro only has so many years to earn money.   I don't blame him wanting paid.   Any one of us would do the same thing if we were in his shoes.   Well, maybe not Tom Brady...

[cman88]

I keep on seeing/hearing about how Jaylen took a below the market contract the last time and the team should make up for it this time around. No one forced Jaylen to sign the last deal, so why should the last contract matter now?

And many here considered the contract an overpay at the time.

That's the funny thing. Fans get all in a tizzy about how so and so isn't worth $$. (Even though it's not their money) Then In a few years when everyone else gets their contracts it looks reasonable. There was a time harden making $45million seemed like a lot.

I mean LaMelo ball is making $53million, van fleet is making $43million. So Jaylen making $60million isn't really out of the realm.

I mean at this point Brogdan at $22million is a steal. Some team would probably pay him $40million

[gouki88]

My gosh. The disrespect to Jaylen on this board is rough.

The disrespect being?

[DefenseWinsChamps]

My gosh. The disrespect to Jaylen on this board is rough.

The disrespect being?

Just badgering Brown's part on this team in many ways. Gets old to hear. I'm not going to try go through every comment to prove it. I just wanted to break the silence of the majority that get tired of that stuff. There tends to be a highly vocal minority on here that nit-picks in a world-is-ending type way.

[cman88]

If Jaylen is sick of his name being in trade rumors, then that's his fault. We don't see Tatum's name in rumors because his play on the court has made him simply un-tradeable. If Jaylen wants that respect, he shouldn't be asking for it for negotiations like a little baby. Prove yourself on the court, which he hasn't. At this point, he's still unfillfulled potential, which is why trade rumors start.

I keep on seeing/hearing about how Jaylen took a below the market contract the last time and the team should make up for it this time around. No one forced Jaylen to sign the last deal, so why should the last contract matter now?

I don't think Jaylen is worth the supermax, but I do want to see something happen regarding his situation. He is essentially an athletic 3&D player. He shows signs of being a great player for like  5 minute spurts during games, but settles as being that 3&D player for the rest of the game. If he doesn't break that pattern, that supermax contract will be an albatross on this team.

hate to burst everyones bubble, but in the next 5 years as guys become eligible there is going to be ALOT of guys who get the supermax deal who "aren't worth the supermax" It's just the nature of the new amounts. The market sets players values, not what fans think. is van fleet worth $43million? is Lamelo ball worth $53million? Brown has done way more than Ball..

and right now we are going to have a 3 year window of JT/Brown/KP....why any fans would want to worry past that instead of going for a ring in the next 3 years I don't know...we KNOW brown/tatum can get to the conference finals/finals...we DONT know if Tatum and random pieces who are not as good as brown can...

if we don't win a ring in the next 3 years brad is going to blow it up anyway and there is going to be major issues like tatum not winning in his prime. so who cares what Wyc pays Brown if its not what the fans think "hes worth"

fans complain that Wyc is cheap and wont spend when we lose role-players like Grant williams. but then want Brown shipped off because they dont want Wyc to pay him..

[Vermont Green]

fans complain that Wyc is cheap and wont spend when we lose role-players like Grant williams. but then want Brown shipped off because they dont want Wyc to pay him..

This resonated with me.  I think it is right on.  There are many apparent contradictions in fans.  No judging, it is part of being fans, to be a little irrational at times, but I think you are correct.  We pretty much have to give Brown the extension.  I don't think it will become an albatross contract.  He will seem overpaid at the start, and then he won't.  And Brown is far more than a 3-D guy.  He was second team All-NBA.

He is a really good player, with some flaws, that plays hard every night.  If for whatever reason, it doesn't work out or someone offers us a deal we can't refuse in a trade, we can trade him in a year.  But I think it is going to work out just fine.

[green_bballers13]

fans complain that Wyc is cheap and wont spend when we lose role-players like Grant williams. but then want Brown shipped off because they dont want Wyc to pay him..

This resonated with me.  I think it is right on.  There are many apparent contradictions in fans.  No judging, it is part of being fans, to be a little irrational at times, but I think you are correct.  We pretty much have to give Brown the extension.  I don't think it will become an albatross contract.  He will seem overpaid at the start, and then he won't.  And Brown is far more than a 3-D guy.  He was second team All-NBA.

He is a really good player, with some flaws, that plays hard every night.  If for whatever reason, it doesn't work out or someone offers us a deal we can't refuse in a trade, we can trade him in a year.  But I think it is going to work out just fine.

Celtics fans won't know what they have until its gone.... unless we trade Jaylen for another guy that makes 2nd team All NBA.

[Roy H.]

fans complain that Wyc is cheap and wont spend when we lose role-players like Grant williams. but then want Brown shipped off because they dont want Wyc to pay him..

This resonated with me.  I think it is right on.  There are many apparent contradictions in fans.  No judging, it is part of being fans, to be a little irrational at times, but I think you are correct.  We pretty much have to give Brown the extension.  I don't think it will become an albatross contract.  He will seem overpaid at the start, and then he won't.  And Brown is far more than a 3-D guy.  He was second team All-NBA.

He is a really good player, with some flaws, that plays hard every night.  If for whatever reason, it doesn't work out or someone offers us a deal we can't refuse in a trade, we can trade him in a year.  But I think it is going to work out just fine.

I'd give him the extension.

Regarding fans, they're not monolithic.  The fanbase is vast, made up of millions of individuals.  Of course there are inconsistencies within the fan base:  it's people disagreeing with one another.

That said, there's a middle path that accounts for both points of view:  some fans are wary of committing a huge chunk of the salary cap to a flawed player, because they suspect that Wyc won't continue to spend to add or keep talent.  That puts all of our eggs in the Jaylen Brown + Jayson Tatum basket.  If that's going to be Wyc's philosophy, maybe it makes sense to spend on two $30 million players, or three $20 million players, rather than one $60 million player who isn't a tier one superstar.