Author Topic: Jaylen Brown Supermax  (Read 58990 times)

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Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2023, 12:21:54 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Certainly interesting that nothing has come out yet about the extension, except that no earnest negotiations have taken place yet.

On Friday I think Himmelsbach said both sides were expecting to get a deal done, but that was before the official Dame trade request. Further, since then we’ve had reports that Boston has reached out about Dame’s price, along with reports of JT recruiting Dave to Boston.

I still think a JB extension is most likely and our best course, and I doubt we’d trade JB for him. However, it’s certainly possible that we feel that we’d rather maximize our next 2-3 year window via a Dame trade, and putting JB on the table (either to Portland directly or via a three team trade) would certainly put our offer at or near the top. I think a lot of this may be based on how JT feels.

That said, I just hope Portland doesn’t cave and trade him to Miami for 30 cents on the dollar when there are better options on the table. Would be a continuing terrible precedent for this league. Can’t just give guys huge money and contracts and then be peer pressured into acquiescing their every wish on a trade.

To be honest I've already penciled him in to MIA. I know POR is throwing out all this noise about not caving, but this almost always ends with the guy going where he wants to go.

In the end I suspect POR will squeeze ever last asset they can out of MIA. All the picks, pick swaps, young guys, salary relief, ect they can. It still won't be fair value for Lillard but when a star says where they want to go they normally go there for whatever value a team can salvage.

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2023, 12:33:42 PM »

Offline cman88

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My guess is Miami trying to move herro for some assets to offer Portland. Or a 3rd team to take him.

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2023, 12:35:39 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Certainly interesting that nothing has come out yet about the extension, except that no earnest negotiations have taken place yet.

On Friday I think Himmelsbach said both sides were expecting to get a deal done, but that was before the official Dame trade request. Further, since then we’ve had reports that Boston has reached out about Dame’s price, along with reports of JT recruiting Dave to Boston.

I still think a JB extension is most likely and our best course, and I doubt we’d trade JB for him. However, it’s certainly possible that we feel that we’d rather maximize our next 2-3 year window via a Dame trade, and putting JB on the table (either to Portland directly or via a three team trade) would certainly put our offer at or near the top. I think a lot of this may be based on how JT feels.

That said, I just hope Portland doesn’t cave and trade him to Miami for 30 cents on the dollar when there are better options on the table. Would be a continuing terrible precedent for this league. Can’t just give guys huge money and contracts and then be peer pressured into acquiescing their every wish on a trade.

To be honest I've already penciled him in to MIA. I know POR is throwing out all this noise about not caving, but this almost always ends with the guy going where he wants to go.

In the end I suspect POR will squeeze ever last asset they can out of MIA. All the picks, pick swaps, young guys, salary relief, ect they can. It still won't be fair value for Lillard but when a star says where they want to go they normally go there for whatever value a team can salvage.

Agreed. As much as I hate it for the league and think this narrative around owing it to Dame to send him to Miami is the biggest pile of non-sense, I suspect they’ll ultimately do it, but mostly because other teams will be reluctant to offer their max package to hedge against Dame being unhappy.

But hopefully they suck every bit of value they can from Miami while doing so. If Riley is playing hardball, I think their best play would be to hold off on any trade for now and just wait until Miami - or another contender - offers up a better package. It’s still early in the summer. No need to rush it through now. Take advantage of Miami’s weaknesses here, as they’ve put everything in the Dame bucket and have nothing else to go for to improve besides this.
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Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2023, 12:37:20 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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My guess is Miami trying to move herro for some assets to offer Portland. Or a 3rd team to take him.

Thing is, Herro doesn’t have all that much value on that contract. They may be able to get a marginal asset for him, but that’s the entire problem - they simply don’t have high quality assets in young players or pucks to trade, which is also complicated by the fact that they also don’t have a huge quantity of assets either.
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Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2023, 12:44:58 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Worth noting with Anthony Edwards just signing his extension: There's no reason he had to wait until today, could have happened 12:01am on July 1st.

Stuff not happening right away as soon as it can doesn't always mean something is up.

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2023, 06:51:57 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Is there any order of procedures issue for the Celtics here? For example, does signing Brown to his supermax extension now impact their ability to keep Grant or make other moves vs if they make those other moves first and then sign Brown to his supermax afterwards?

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2023, 06:55:14 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Is there any order of procedures issue for the Celtics here? For example, does signing Brown to his supermax extension now impact their ability to keep Grant or make other moves vs if they make those other moves first and then sign Brown to his supermax afterwards?

Nope.  The only thing signing Brown would do is prevent him from being traded for a year.  His new salary wouldn’t kick in until next year, so no effect on the cap this year.

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2023, 07:09:23 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Is there any order of procedures issue for the Celtics here? For example, does signing Brown to his supermax extension now impact their ability to keep Grant or make other moves vs if they make those other moves first and then sign Brown to his supermax afterwards?

Nope.  The only thing signing Brown would do is prevent him from being traded for a year.  His new salary wouldn’t kick in until next year, so no effect on the cap this year.

Thanks, TP

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2023, 07:40:34 PM »

Online Birdman

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Teams can only have 2 super max players right?
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2023, 07:43:32 PM »

Offline radiohead

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Ok, so here’s what i gathered by reading through this thread so far:

- a team can’t have 3 (super)max players due to the new CBA
- JT is trying to recruit Dame
- Boston asked Portland about Dame
- JB hasn’t signed an extension

So maybe:

- JB somehow settles for a short term extension below the supermax in order to accommodate Dame and form a super team?
- Brad trades Malcolm/GWill/and others plus picks for Dame

Or:

- JB has asked to be traded
- so JT then tries to recruit Dame for a possible JB for Dame swap

My head is spinning.

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2023, 08:38:23 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Teams can only have 2 super max players right?

Nope, new CBA got rid of that rule.

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2023, 09:03:13 PM »

Offline Muzzy66

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I think the biggest reason why a Jaylen Brown supermax is so hard to fathom for some of us in Boston is the fact that we have Tatum, who kinda overshadows Jaylen Brown. 

Looking at Brown in isolation in any other scenario / on any other team, if you have a 25/26 year old fairly healthy wing whose averaging upwards of 26/7/3, improving every year, and just made an All-NBA team then offering that player a supermax would be pretty much a no-brainer.  Any and every team would do it without a second thought regardless of whether that team is a contender or a young developing team, a player like that wold be considered pure gold. 

The thing that makes it seem so crazy for us is that we just happen to be lucky enough to have another 24/25 year old very healthy two-way wing averaging upwards of 30/8/4 who is improving every year and just made an All-NBA first team and is generally considered a top 5-10 player in the league.

We all know that Tatum is getting a supermax as soon as the opportunity presents itself, and the idea of have both two young wings with as-yet undetermined ceilings both signed to long term supermax deals is a little scary, because *IF* these two guys don't prove good enough to lead the Celtics to the promised land, then everybody knows that our ability to add more talent around those guys i going to be very limited.

So I think the hesitation for some to give Brown a supermax is not so much a reflection of who Brown is as a player, but moreso a reflection of the fairly unusual situation Boston currently finds themselves in.  Especially given that Tatum and Brown are such similar players overall, that there is some feeling that we are committing the entire future of the team to Tatum and a second slightly less good (but who seems to think he's just as good) version of Tatum.  And many of us still have question marks as to whether these two guys fit together well enough (as both players and in terms of prsonality/cultural fit) to form the core of a championship squad.

For me, personally, I did have major concerns about this...but I have to admit that I feel much better about it now that we have Porzingis locked in for the next 3 years.  I know Porzingis is a health risk, but I have felt for years that the Celtics desperately need an consistent offensive presence in the front court to help take pressure off the Jays and bring more balance to the offence, and having that third offensive weapon to take pressure off the Jays makes me feel much more comfortable committing to both Tatum and Brown long term.  Tatum, Brown, Timelord and Porzingis all have 5-6 years of prime basketball left in them, which means the championship window for this team would be huge - there is a high probability of multiple NBA finals runs, and a pretty high chance of winning at least one title.  If all goes really well there is potential for a genuine dynasty. 

We'll see how it goes, but I like where the team is and I've grown pretty comfortable with the Brown supermax.   

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2023, 02:09:22 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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I think they are waiting for JB to come in and show them he can go left before offering the full supermax.....

Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2023, 02:18:37 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Team has to offer it, but it will be a bad contract

A very bad contract. How does the CBA even make such a ridiculous salary possible ?
$60 million, Are you kidding me ? No way Jaylen Brown is worth that.
Problem being if Celts offer lower, Brown will go into his "disrespected, franchise does not value me, fans don't love me" act.

I have about reached the point of believing a trade is the best option for the team and maybe for Brown as well.
He and Tatum remain redundant and Brown's air of discontent hangs over the team every year.
Of course, Tatum has the bad habit of sometimes falling flat in playoff games. We need a strong veteran leader.

Hell, what difference does it make anyway? We ain't winning anything with Uncle Joe coaching this team.
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Re: Jaylen Brown Supermax
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2023, 04:08:55 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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When talking about Jaylen’s supermax, instead of using dollars, it makes sense to use the percentage of the cap every year.  This percentage will inform how tradeable or not the contract is every season, and not the actual dollar amount.  As it’s very likely that the cap will increase 10% every year due to the new media deal, here are the percentages, assuming he signs a 5-year max deal:

Year 1: 35%
Year 2: 34.36%
Year 3: 33.55%
Year 4: 32.61%
Year 5: 31.56%

This is different than some of the max deals signed before July 2021, as the cap increased very slowly/was static for several seasons, due to Covid and the lack of cap smoothing after the last media deal was signed.  With 8% raises, those contracts approached 38% of the cap a couple years into their deal, and became more burdensome for their teams, as opposed to less burdensome.