Is this the end of small ball?

[cman88]

I think the celtics best lineup is going to be:

White(or brogdon)/Brown/Tatum/KP/Rwill

Teams are going to have a hard time driving into the paint or dealing with the length and size of that celtics team. Too many times this year I felt the celtics didn't play to their strengths playing small too often and Robert williams coming off the bench.  and it was disasterous. small shifty guards just killing us in pick and rolls all 3 rounds.

I dont see that happening with this lineup.

I've seen alot of people say Horford should start with KP at the 5. BUT I think Horford should be managed this year and come off the bench. Although I expect him KP/Rwill to all split minutes with different lineups as they all will need to be managed.

[Surferdad]

When someone says "small ball", I think of inserting quicker, more agile players who can beat bigger players off the dribble or on the break. I do NOT look at the overall height of the team and say "they play small ball".  I guess what I'm saying is that small ball is an in-game tactic, not a team profile.

[cman88]

I guess you could look at it that way. But I look at how we went small to match Miami which played right into their strengths.

They were able to get into the paint at will. If you face Miami again and now keep KP and Rwill out there. It's totally different.

[W8ting2McHale]

Small ball became a trend when the league began moving away from plodding, paint clogging centers to more dynamic players that could move and score away from the basket. There hasn’t been a lot of those guys around and very few big men; other than Joker and Embiid who are focal points for their team. Then there’s the Warriors, who managed to win championships thanks to Draymond Green as a small ball center.

Teams could either try to find a Unicorn that was over 7’ that could play outside or go small in an attempt to find their own Draymond. Neither option worked that well. Turns out there’s just one Draymond Green and guys like Ayton and Wiseman aren’t Unicorns.

But now the league is going to be going in the opposite direction with Wembanyama and Chet Holmgren arriving. If they are indeed Unicorns then the league is going to have to respond.

Thankfully Brad already secured a Unicorn for at least this next season so we’ll have a front row seat to watch it all play out. But I think the league as a whole starts moving away from small ball. The Warriors are less dominant. No one found another Draymond and he’s aging out.

If Porzingis isn’t enough on his own, we can run Kornet out there with him to see if Holmgren can shoot over someone waving both hands in his face.

[W8ting2McHale]

Double post

[SparzWizard]

Small ball to me is putting a bunch of 6'8 or shorter guys at all five positions who are fast and having the ability to shoot 3s. I think teams may start to shift away from it.

But for the C's we may see some big ball lineup this season...maybe with Horford, Timelord, and Porzingis all on the court at once? That would be interesting.   

[ozgod]

I think the lineups will be on a case by case basis. The name of the game is now all about versatility and having players that can fulfill multiple roles offensively, space the floor and who can create matchup issues and provide different looks to other teams. Stretch bigs have been around for a while to assist with spacing, Horford has filled that role for us by being able to stretch the floor.  Having a stretch big can also help you protect the rim defensively. But there will still be times when you need to have smaller lineups that can switch everything and run in transition, especially against lineups like the Dubs with Draymond at the 5. If your big is getting exposed by being unable to defend at the perimeter then you want to be able to have the versatility to switch things up. It's been a while in the NBA where you've had one lineup that is best all the time every time.

[PAOBoston]

I think small ball will still be used a lot. Adding KP gives the Cs more options to help spread the floor. Ideally. I think the Cs want to get back to the two big lineup to help their defense. KP/Al and KP/Timelord are both interesting combos. KP/Al gives you a three point threat from every position and good interior defense. Will be interesting to see how they go about it.

[Big333223]

I always thought the small ball thing was overblown. The shift in the NBA has been to prioritize skill over size but it's still better to be big and skilled than small and skilled.

If the Celtics plan to play 2 of Porzingis/Rob/Al together with White/Brown/Tatum that team is going to be huge and won't be giving up anything in terms of skill. Could be an exciting team.

[Who]

C: Porzingis
F: Tatum
F: Jaylen
G: Brogdon
G: D White

This will be a deadly offensive lineup and a solid defensive & rebounding lineup. Teams won't be able to help off of anyone without giving up an open shot to a skilled player. They will be lethal to play against.

So I expect we'll still see some small ball. When we need more offense than Horford or Timelord provide. When Horford isn't playing well offensively. Or when the twin big's defensive advantage does not yield enough benefits.

[SHAQATTACK]

Me and Chief sure hope so 

I can’t wait to see if Rob and Zinger can make music on the court

[obnoxiousmime]

I don't think Porzingis playing with Rob or Horford for long stretches is ideal. There might be a chance Horford plays next to Porzingis, but his minutes should already be reduced next season. I just don't think that all three can really move well enough to play PF on a regular basis.

I would like the Cs to acquire a bigger 3 and D type to take Grant's spot. They need to find a young Jae Crowder or PJ Tucker type that isn't so expensive. Can they get Trey Lyles on a cheap deal? Not that he's necessarily so great, but there just aren't a lot of great options in FA this year that are actually gettable. Man, imagine if Cam Reddish used his size and athleticism for defense instead of trying to establish himself as a scorer.

[Who]

I don't think Porzingis playing with Rob or Horford for long stretches is ideal. There might be a chance Horford plays next to Porzingis, but his minutes should already be reduced next season. I just don't think that all three can really move well enough to play PF on a regular basis.

Horford is the best of them in terms of movement, lateral quickness, agility. He is the guy that is going to have to be the main PF.

I wonder if Porzingis is now the worst of them. His movement used to be pretty good a few years ago but injuries have sapped his lateral movement. Almost has to defend centers nowdays.

So Timelord is probably the 2nd best option. That is fine when it is a low capability offensive option that allows him to roam but how will Timelord do against quality offensive players on the perimeter? He hasn't done much of that in recent years.

[Walker Wiggle]

I definitely think the trade signals a change in philosophy, not just because you’ve added Porzingis but, perhaps even more so, that the team seemed comfortable moving off Smart.

The basic principle under Ime was “switch everything” and they had the personnel for it. Smart was a PG who could body up centers, you had a massive Brown and Tatum at the 2 and 3 spots, and two agile big defenders.

They are going to be more of a Budenholzer-style, drop defense this year. It doesn’t necessarily mean worse; the stats suggest Porzingis was an elite pick and roll defender last year, I suspect because he was so massive at the rim. (7-3 height tends to help make up for subpar footspeed.)

The concern I have is more so on offense. When the offense was really humming last year, you had guys all over the place who could pass, dribble, playmake, cut, and shoot. Smart, for all his limitations shooting from deep, was great in that environment.

This is going to be different. I’ll wait before fully passing judgment, but I can’t imagine KP is the same type of passer as Smart. Will the ball be whipping around, with tons of movement, with him and, say, Timelord on the floor? If the ball stagnates, it won’t matter that KP can shoot. Guys just won’t be open.

The thing I’m hopeful for is late-game offensive execution when the team has a lead. So many of us were ready to tear our hair out when the Celtics went stagnant late in games. Things get tight, and when the jump shots don’t go in, that leaves you vulnerable to comebacks. (Particularly when the other team has long rebounds off of your missed 3s and then scores in transition.) KP will help there because he’s, statistically, such a good post scorer. That type of offense isn’t the most efficient, but it has low variance; KP is unlikely to go completely ice cold shooting close to the rim in crunch time. This is going to become extremely important in the playoffs, I figure, when everyone tightens up and you need a consistent source of offense.

[Surferdad]

I guess you could look at it that way. But I look at how we went small to match Miami which played right into their strengths.

They were able to get into the paint at will. If you face Miami again and now keep KP and Rwill out there. It's totally different.

All true, so I interpet your thread title to mean "Is this the end of being forced into playing small ball because we now have a bigger front line?" The answer to that question is 'yes' but it doesn't mean the end of small ball completely. "small ball" is still tactic for any NBA team if they think it gives them an advantage.