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How much does coaching worry you?
« on: June 24, 2023, 01:49:06 AM »

Offline LilRip

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We have a LOT of talent in the squad and a legit big 3 of Tatum-Porzingis-Brown. I don’t think this team has to score the most points to be one of the most unstoppable offenses in the league. And then, there’s the defense. KP was a legit rim protector last year, and we add him to a team with terrific perimeter defense in White-Brown-Tatum.

I don’t question the talent. But I am worried about the coaching. Joe has a full offseason + training camp to get things right but it feels to me like a young player expected to perform at the highest level. Kinda like how Tatum, as awesome as he is today, had to endure a lot of growing pains before blossoming. Cassell can help but what other asst coaches are available to help Joe harness this all star squad of a roster?
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Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2023, 01:51:59 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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It worried me last season when we can't even beat a #8 seeded D-league team especially at home.

So, very much worried still.


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Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2023, 02:05:43 AM »

Offline radiohead

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I’m optimistic with Joe coming in to this season. He’ll have a full training camp and a set of excellent assistants. He’ll also have a new weapon in KP. Brad was saying they were forced to play small in crunch time situations because their top guys were wings and guards. Well now they have a legit 7 foot threat inside and outside.

Another factor which I think would be significant is the loss of Smart. I love Marcus but at the back of my mind, I always wondered if his personality was so huge to the point that he was really the team’s Alpha (being the longest tenured Celtic), coaches included. With Ime he was held in check. With Joe, being so young and inexperienced ,I think it was the opposite. Now the challenge is for Joe, JT, and JB to break out of their shells and blossom into the real leaders of this team. Marcus I feel was always the “big brother” who they deferred to and never questioned. Now they they don’t have to look over their shoulders, they just need to look at the mirror and man up to the challenge. They have a chance to be a very special team. It’s up to them if they can answer the challenge.

Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2023, 05:49:07 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Less so than at the end of last season. Chiefly due to the assistant coaching.

Lee is a highly respected & experienced assistant, who should be able to guide Joe a lot. Cassell is similar, but with a real focus on player development and relationships. He should help a lot in the locker room, especially with all the change.

Not so sure about Amile Jefferson, but he’s a former teammate of JT, so it can’t hurt there!
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Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2023, 06:50:50 AM »

Offline ozgod

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We have a LOT of talent in the squad and a legit big 3 of Tatum-Porzingis-Brown. I don’t think this team has to score the most points to be one of the most unstoppable offenses in the league. And then, there’s the defense. KP was a legit rim protector last year, and we add him to a team with terrific perimeter defense in White-Brown-Tatum.

I don’t question the talent. But I am worried about the coaching. Joe has a full offseason + training camp to get things right but it feels to me like a young player expected to perform at the highest level. Kinda like how Tatum, as awesome as he is today, had to endure a lot of growing pains before blossoming. Cassell can help but what other asst coaches are available to help Joe harness this all star squad of a roster?

It's always a concern, though I think the impact of an NBA coach on the actual xs and os in the game is less than say an NFL coach. I feel like if you have an NFL coach on one end of the "coaching involvement" spectrum, where they essentially manipulate the players on field like pieces on a chessboard, vs a soccer or rugby coach on the other end where once the game starts the game is basically in the hands of the players, I feel like basketball is closer to the soccer paradigm than the NFL paradigm. His inexperience will matter less in that case if he has experienced players that know what they are doing.

That said, where he can and will have an outsize influence is in the general direction of how the team plays, how they practice, what type of identity they want to have, what the culture of the team will be, etc. And it won't be just him that will be exerting that influence, it's his coaching staff as well. That's where I think Joe struggled a lot last year - less in the nightly management of the team during games (which is where most of the criticism of him was aimed at, because to be fair that's that part of him most of us as fans see) but more in instilling the team's defensive identity and emphasizing that in his team management, and holding players accountable.

I think the circumstances in which Joe was hired made it hard for him to put his foot down, he didn't know if he had allies in his coaching staff given he inherited them a week before the season, he didn't know how the players would respond to him, and then for half the season he was "interim" which implied he was only a caretaker. So why should players respect him? This season all those excuses are gone - he has a team of staff that he presumably had input into picking, he has a whole offseason to really plan what type of team he wants them to be, he has players that he (presumably) had an input in bringing into the team, and he has a year of experience in the NBA. I'm expecting him to be better this year, and he will need to be, as the honeymoon period (if ever there was one) is well and truly over for him.

If you think about it, despite the fact that he (in some people's eyes) was an abject failure last season, his team was still a game away from the Finals. With a full offseason under him, a better coaching staff to support him and players that better fit his ideal of how he wants the team to play, he should be better.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2023, 06:51:34 AM »

Offline ozgod

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It worried me last season when we can't even beat a #8 seeded D-league team especially at home.

So, very much worried still.

Are we talking about the D league team that made the finals?  :police:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2023, 06:52:37 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Not as much with Cassell and Lee being added.

Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2023, 08:53:31 AM »

Offline cman88

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Not as much with Cassell and Lee being added.

this, I mean both these guys were assistant coaches last year for 2 of the top 3 teams in the east and were head coaching cantidates.

it's a big boost to the coaching staff.

Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2023, 09:17:19 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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It doesn't. Coaching issues were always overblown in my mind. We had a frustrating team last year and people looked for someone to blame.

I felt like the issues were more about Tatum and Brown's inconsistency as stars, Smart's boneheaded plays, and injuries.

Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2023, 09:19:29 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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We have a LOT of talent in the squad and a legit big 3 of Tatum-Porzingis-Brown. I don’t think this team has to score the most points to be one of the most unstoppable offenses in the league. And then, there’s the defense. KP was a legit rim protector last year, and we add him to a team with terrific perimeter defense in White-Brown-Tatum.

I don’t question the talent. But I am worried about the coaching. Joe has a full offseason + training camp to get things right but it feels to me like a young player expected to perform at the highest level. Kinda like how Tatum, as awesome as he is today, had to endure a lot of growing pains before blossoming. Cassell can help but what other asst coaches are available to help Joe harness this all star squad of a roster?
This plus a big boost to the coaching staff. Give them 25 games to get in a groove. I'm not worried about the coaching.

Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2023, 09:49:49 AM »

Online Who

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I was surprised last season that it was such a big factor. Most of the time coaches are closer average / normal and there is some negatives but not too large. I did not see Mazzula stinking up the joint as badly as he did in the postseason and in doing so hurting the team as much as he did.

Very unusual to see a coach hurt his team that much on a strong playoff team.

So yes, I am worried about coaching moving forward. I am not convinced assistants will do much to change a deficient head coach. I am not convinced he'll go from doing such a bad job last season to a good or even average job next season.

Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2023, 01:01:56 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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A lot.  Joe didn't seem to grow much last season.

I like our coaching staff beyond Joe.


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Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2023, 01:39:26 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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A lot.  Joe didn't seem to grow much last season.

I like our coaching staff beyond Joe.
I second this. I also think Joe's going to be looking over his shoulder at Cassell. It can still work and may work, but it could all go south too. Joe needs to do a lot better in Season 2.

Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2023, 01:56:17 PM »

Offline footey

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I'm not concerned.  I think Joe has a very good basketball mind, and works very hard.  These are qualities that Brad and Danny speak about of him. It will all come down to whether Tatum and Brown have his back.  Publicly they do.

With Porzingis added to the mix, the challenge will be to change the offensive and defensive schemes, pretty dramatically.  More drop coverage on D. More high post actions.  His new assistants will be very helpful with this.  Will Tatum and Brown buy in?  They are both about to get super max contracts, so stat chasing is no longer needed. Focus on ring chasing.  They got the bag.

I will miss Marcus, but, I think he tended to usurp Joe as coach, taking over huddles, criticizing Joe in the press.  It wasn't malicious, but it generated confusion over Joe's ability to lead as coach. (actually not my idea; was mentioned by Bill Simmons the other night on the Off the Pike podcast with his dad.)

Re: How much does coaching worry you?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2023, 02:38:57 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I'm not concerned.  I think Joe has a very good basketball mind, and works very hard.  These are qualities that Brad and Danny speak about of him. It will all come down to whether Tatum and Brown have his back.  Publicly they do.

With Porzingis added to the mix, the challenge will be to change the offensive and defensive schemes, pretty dramatically.  More drop coverage on D. More high post actions.  His new assistants will be very helpful with this.  Will Tatum and Brown buy in?  They are both about to get super max contracts, so stat chasing is no longer needed. Focus on ring chasing.  They got the bag.

I will miss Marcus, but, I think he tended to usurp Joe as coach, taking over huddles, criticizing Joe in the press.  It wasn't malicious, but it generated confusion over Joe's ability to lead as coach. (actually not my idea; was mentioned by Bill Simmons the other night on the Off the Pike podcast with his dad.)
It is kind of ironic that two guys who publicly threw some shade at the coaching both were ticked for moves out of here - Brogdon being the other.