Is Smart/KP trade good….

[Celtics4ever]

It will depend on whether Kristaps can stay healthy, so too early to tell.

[Vermont Green]

I don't think there is any question that a straight swap of Porzingis for Smart is an upgrade.  It is an upgrade in terms of positional balance and individual production.  Durability is a legitimate concern.  He did play 65 games last season, the most for since 2016-17.  But Smart has been around 60 games the last 3 seasons or so.  I feel that Porzingis can stay on the court enough that he will make the team better.  There will be some minutes management needed, but Porzingis is really good.

And keep in mind that it was not a straight swap of Smart for Porzingis.  We also sent out Gallinari and Muscala but got back a very solid 2024 first and now 4 pretty solid future seconds.

As to Marcus Smart, I am a big fan.  I would have way rather traded Brogdon (who I like too), and said so many times over the last few weeks.  But this is still a good trade for Boston.  This is not addition by subtraction.  This is giving up player with a lot of value (worth Tyus Jones and 2 first round picks to MEM) at a position that we had a surplus, for what I believe is an even better player at a position of need.

How about we offer Brogdon + the GSW 1st + the 4 seconds to MEM for Smart?  Would they do that, assuming they have time to review his medicals and there is no serious injury, which I believe to be the case?  How about we offer Brogdon and a couple of seconds for Smart?  Think they would do that?  Many were saying that Brogdon is better than Smart, that Smart was bad for the team.  How about then we offer Brogdon to MEM straight up for Smart?  Think MEM would do that?

[Who]

…if it’s just a one year rental for Porzingis?

Porzingis going into the final year of his 5 year contract (@ $36 million)

Will become unrestricted after next season.

Seems unlikely we resign this guy.

We basically traded Smart for a future first and multiple 2nd rounders???

I believe several sources including Marc Stein have reported they plan on extending him two years.

Two years wouldn't be so bad.

I am scared of that extension but 2yrs isn't that bad.

[Surferdad]

I don't think there is any question that a straight swap of Porzingis for Smart is an upgrade.  It is an upgrade in terms of positional balance and individual production.  Durability is a legitimate concern.  He did play 65 games last season, the most for since 2016-17.  But Smart has been around 60 games the last 3 seasons or so.  I feel that Porzingis can stay on the court enough that he will make the team better.  There will be some minutes management needed, but Porzingis is really good.

And keep in mind that it was not a straight swap of Smart for Porzingis.  We also sent out Gallinari and Muscala but got back a very solid 2024 first and now 4 pretty solid future seconds.

As to Marcus Smart, I am a big fan.  I would have way rather traded Brogdon (who I like too), and said so many times over the last few weeks.  But this is still a good trade for Boston.  This is not addition by subtraction.  This is giving up player with a lot of value (worth Tyus Jones and 2 first round picks to MEM) at a position that we had a surplus, for what I believe is an even better player at a position of need.

How about we offer Brogdon + the GSW 1st + the 4 seconds to MEM for Smart? Would they do that, assuming they have time to review his medicals and there is no serious injury, which I believe to be the case?  How about we offer Brogdon and a couple of seconds for Smart?  Think they would do that?  Many were saying that Brogdon is better than Smart, that Smart was bad for the team.  How about then we offer Brogdon to MEM straight up for Smart?  Think MEM would do that?

MEM not biting.  I heard that part of the reason they wanted Smart is to (1) fill in for Morant for 25 games AND to (2) provide some leadership into the locker room.

[keevsnick]

In the end the they ended up with the 38th pick, pretty much the same spot as the original pick they had at 35. So in some ways the packaged pretty much comes down to

Outgoing: Smart, Galo, Muscala
Incoming: KP, 24' GSW 1st Rounder, 4 future seconds (1 each in 24, 25, 26, 27)

From a strictly value perspective that's not bad (as long they re-sign KP to a fair deal).

Of course good value doesn't mean it will work on the court, and seeing Smart go HURT, a lot. He was my second favorite player.

[RJ87]

It's a great trade.

As I said in another thread, I think Smart's DPOY year was the best he's ever going to be. I can't recall a time recently when a player went from DPOY to not getting a single vote for an All-Defensive team the next year.

Adding Porzingis gives us an interior presence we haven't had in a long time, certainly not during the Tatum/Brown years. Rob's offense is really just catching lobs and while Al has been great for us in other ways, he's not a guy that you can just post up when you need a bucket. You can do that with Porzingis when the 3's aren't falling or when a team runs a zone defense against us.

[Kuberski33]

We got better offensively and worse defensively. Smart has peaked as a player and is now declining, albeit slowly.
He's still a very good player and will help Memphis, I think a lot.

But he has periods now where he sucks defensively and those where he influences games, especially late, with Smart-like plays continue to occur, just not as often. They're going to occur less often next season and probably a lot less often after that. You also have to worry about him getting old quick based on how he's played his entire career. At some point his body has to break down.

The new collective bargaining agreement forces teams to alter their approach to building and sustaining teams and I think that's a big reason behind this deal.  But in order for this to work, their stars are going to have to play like stars, especially when it counts. We'll see whether that happens.

[Kuberski33]

It's a great trade.

As I said in another thread, I think Smart's DPOY year was the best he's ever going to be. I can't recall a time recently when a player went from DPOY to not getting a single vote for an All-Defensive team the next year.

Adding Porzingis gives us an interior presence we haven't had in a long time, certainly not during the Tatum/Brown years. Rob's offense is really just catching lobs and while Al has been great for us in other ways, he's not a guy that you can just post up when you need a bucket. You can do that with Porzingis when the 3's aren't falling or when a team runs a zone defense against us.

Speaking to this - Al can't post up at all. It's just not part of his game. And Rob, while very effective at what he does, remains limited offensively.  So there is something to this. Porzingis has improved his low post play from the days when Marcus Smart wouldn't allow him to post up (if anyone remembers that play),

[Rikibellevie]

Do I overestimate Smart and underestimate Porzingis ? I don't know. Maybe you do the opposite. We will see, if we don't win it all and Porzingis leave for nothing (or trade exeption, wgich always turn to nothing but hope for us) it will be a bust for Brad (or a dumb of salary for an all time celtics).

It's even not about the draft picks or the fillers (Muscala or even an old and 1 year unactive Gallo). Porzingis is more talented offensively ? Of course. Do we need a long term big option to take Horford role. Yes sir. But it is still a bad trade for me, the argues are too strong AND TOO SIMPLE to overcome.

It's about PO's. Porzingis had 3 great match and 7 horrible one the year later (was he hurt ?). At 27 it is thin, easy to say it is because he was always on the worst teams of the league. He wasn't. I don't even have to argue to the long run PO participation, with Smart, even with unproven grit teams like IT one.

It's about value. He leaves all his teams with little value, embarassing contract, due to injury or not being what expected (next to Doncic and a correct core). He was traded for role players or/and fillers. He doesn't had a great reputation before being good on the big 3 of a mediocre team. He still hasn't more value for them than Tyus Jones and filler, which tell some.

It's about complementarity. Smart was giving some things we lacked and still lack. Effort, voice, experience, intensity, hard playing, versatility in defense. Tatum and Brown have it ? Porzingis ?

It's about playmaking and IQ. Smart wasn't ideal. He wasn't the floor general, but a very good captain. And mostly he has quiet good IQ when he doesn't fall in hero ball (like Tatum and Brown stinked some times also). White isn't a point guard. Brogdon isn't a good passer for a point guard. He is playing for himself like Kemba did. Tatum makes effort and improve in that way but has more of the mamba mentality. Don't even speak about Brown or Porzingus. Some talk about Pritchard or Davison. No. We are contender not in building our playmaking identity.

It's about defense. Maybe Smart regressed. Maybe also because of Mazz. Personnally a core of White-Brown-Tatum-Porzingis-Horford/Timelord could be good defensively, but the outside defense is questionning, a problem we had in this PO.  More do you imagine the structure of the game with 3 desperados ?

So maybe there is a trade but maybe this also save some millions if next year we don't resign Smart while we are signing Brown. Hope it isn't that.

[Bobshot]

Wasn't Porzingis an overall #1 pick? 
He is certainly better now after a few years, as he showed last season, and is probably approaching his prime.
Smart is probably past his prime, so it's a good deal from that standpoint.
But the underlying factor is the Celtics were weak up front, strong in the backcourt, so the deal evened things out.
KP will plug up the middle and should make a big difference on defense and offense. It takes a load off Horford.

It's clear from the draft they are trying to save money for contract extensions. That could mean they have both Brown and KP in their sights.

On draft night, it wasn't clear what was happening on ESPN with the Celtics, since they had the 25th pick going from Memphis to Detroit.
That's NY for you. Woj finally explained what was going on.

All in all, a good night for Stevens with the trade and collecting a bunch of cheap #2s.
Plus that 19yo from Arkansas who'll probably be a few inches taller in a few years. A good gamble.

[Vermont Green]

We got better offensively and worse defensively. Smart has peaked as a player and is now declining, albeit slowly.
He's still a very good player and will help Memphis, I think a lot.

But he has periods now where he sucks defensively and those where he influences games, especially late, with Smart-like plays continue to occur, just not as often. They're going to occur less often next season and probably a lot less often after that. You also have to worry about him getting old quick based on how he's played his entire career. At some point his body has to break down.

The new collective bargaining agreement forces teams to alter their approach to building and sustaining teams and I think that's a big reason behind this deal.  But in order for this to work, their stars are going to have to play like stars, especially when it counts. We'll see whether that happens.

It is hard to give up Smart, one of the best defensive guards in the league, and not lose some defensive ability.  It is tricky though as who exactly is going to replace Smart's minutes?  White and Brogdon will probably play about the same but we would play the 3 guard line up nearly as much.  So in some ways, it will be Porzingis playing Smart's minutes.  I expect we will see this as the core line up:

White - Brown - Tatum - Porzingis - Horford

instead of

Smart - White - Brown - Tatum - Horford

We lose some things Smart could do that no other player could but gain some different things that Porzingis can do that we didn't have before.  I actually think our Defensive Rating is going to get better.   Our defense was better in 2021-2022 when we had RWill and Horford in the core line up whether Smart was on the floor or not.  We will have good size and good defense at every position.

Say you are a football team and you have great players and depth at cornerback but are a little thin at edge rusher.  Then, assume you trade your best cornerback for a solid edge rusher.  Is your defense necessarily worse off?  The answer is that it is hard to tell and that is how I see the Celtics.  Our PF/C rotation is better defensively now but our guard rotation is worse.  But can you say for sure that our overall team defense is worse?  Maybe it will be but I don't think it is quite that obvious or simple.

[bdm860]

I think this has more potential to be a good trade than a bad trade, but time will tell.

What usually happens for me when it comes to players I like, is after they've moved on and I'm no longer looking at them through my green goggles, I'm usually no longer bothered by the trade.


Was bummed when Perk was traded. And even though Jeff Green didn't do anything for the C's (and missed a year the team really could have used him, though not his fault), Perk being bad and overpaid in OKC (and caused them to trade Harden) made it easy to get over it. 

Was bummed when the team traded Pierce/KG, but their performance once they left made it easy to get over them (those picks helped too!)..

Was bummed when the team traded Isaiah. And even though Kyrie was a nightmare, once it turned out Isaiah was a shell of his former self, was glad the team was able to move on from him.

Wasn't happy when the team essentially traded away a sure thing in Fultz.

Was bummed when guys like Horford, Hayward, and Fournier (to a much lesser extent) decided to leave, but the way they looked and their lack of success on other teams made it easy to get over them.

Was less than thrilled when guys like Rondo and Bradley were dealt, because I liked them and it felt like we were sending the best player out, but then the players brought in ended up outplaying them and I started liking the new players just as much as the old players.



I love Smart, and wish nothing but the best for him.  But also kind of want him and Memphis to really suck to make the trade that much better for Boston.

[Vermont Green]

I think this has more potential to be a good trade than a bad trade, but time will tell.

What usually happens for me when it comes to players I like, is after they've moved on and I'm not longer looking at them through my green goggles, I'm usually no longer bothered by the trade.


Was bummed when Perk was traded. And even though Jeff Green didn't do anything for the C's (and missed a year the team really could have used him, though not his fault), Perk being bad and overpaid in OKC (and caused them to trade Harden) made it easy to get over it. 

Was bummed when the team traded Pierce/KG, but their performance once they left made it easy to get over them (those picks helped too!)..

Was bummed when the team traded Isaiah. And even though Kyrie was a nightmare, once it turned out Isaiah was a shell of his former self, was glad the team was able to move on from him.

Wasn't happy when the team essentially traded away a sure thing in Fultz.

Was bummed when guys like Horford, Hayward, and Fournier (to a much lesser extent) decided to leave, but the way they looked and their lack of success on other teams made it easy to get over them.

Was less than thrilled when guys like Rondo and Bradley were dealt, because I liked them and it felt like we were sending the best player out, but then the players brought in ended up outplaying them and I started liking the new players just as much as the old players.



I love Smart, and wish nothing but the best for him.  But also kind of want him and Memphis to really suck to make the trade that much better for Boston.

Good post (TP for honesty).  I think many fans felt this way at these time of the trades/transactions.  But I don't think MEM is going to suck.  I think Smart is going to be great for them and that they they will continue to be a kind of overperforming team.  But that doesn't mean this will turn out to be a bad trade for the Celtics.

[Vermont Green]

Wasn't Porzingis an overall #1 pick? 

No, 4th in 2015, after Towns, Russell, and Okafor.  Probably should have gone 2nd in retrospect.

[RJ87]

Wasn't Porzingis an overall #1 pick? 

No, 4th in 2015, after Towns, Russell, and Okafor.  Probably should have gone 2nd in retrospect.

There were some... um... decisions in that draft.

But yeah, he would been 2nd or 3rd in a redraft - top 3 would be Booker/KAT/KP in some order.