Celtics Off-Season News

[Neurotic Guy]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

Not by a lot. The difference in the first four years of a contract extension between his incumbent team and whoever signs him would be less than 8 million dollars the first four years. The MAIN difference would be the extra fifth year at the end which would be like in the 58 million range for his age 32 season. But at that age he can probably make it up the difference on his next contract anyway anyway by signing a 3+1 and getting back to free agency earlier.

Like I said, it depends a lot on what the other options are and how truly motivated that POR is to trade Lillard.  If Brown signals that absolutely no way he would resign in POR, then I agree, the deal is dead.  But I am not sure it would play out like that.  Maybe.

But if Brown says I am not committing to resigning, I will explore my options, including resigning, at the appropriate time, then maybe it is a risk worth taking for POR.

Ya my main point is that for a team that's going to be bad next year I just can't see a situation in which trading for a guy who can't be extended right now in Brown makes any sense. Almsot regardless of what Brown tells you its too big a risk.

Third team.  Of course I can’t suggest which one but Brown should be a lot more desirable to a third team than Herro. 

[Who]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

Not by a lot. The difference in the first four years of a contract extension between his incumbent team and whoever signs him would be less than 8 million dollars the first four years. The MAIN difference would be the extra fifth year at the end which would be like in the 58 million range for his age 32 season. But at that age he can probably make it up the difference on his next contract anyway anyway by signing a 3+1 and getting back to free agency earlier.

Like I said, it depends a lot on what the other options are and how truly motivated that POR is to trade Lillard.  If Brown signals that absolutely no way he would resign in POR, then I agree, the deal is dead.  But I am not sure it would play out like that.  Maybe.

But if Brown says I am not committing to resigning, I will explore my options, including resigning, at the appropriate time, then maybe it is a risk worth taking for POR.

Ya my main point is that for a team that's going to be bad next year I just can't see a situation in which trading for a guy who can't be extended right now in Brown makes any sense. Almsot regardless of what Brown tells you its too big a risk.

Third team.  Of course I can’t suggest which one but Brown should be a lot more desirable to a third team than Herro.

Mostly, I see POR running into the same problem with Jaylen. If Jaylen is only willing to stay if his new team is a contender, that limits the number of teams who can pursue him. Most of those teams do not have attractive trade proposals for POR. Most of them have older vets who are not of interest to POR. Like MIL with Middleton & Jrue. That type of thing. Teams that do have good young stars mostly have PGs (Trae, Morant) which POR already has with Scoot Henderson.

Here are the best ideas that come to mind:

(1) Maybe Cleveland could be convinced to trade Donovan Mitchell for a bigger wing to make their roster construction / balance better.

(2) Golden State could be an option. CP3, Kuminga, Moody & picks.

(3) Maybe POR has a shot at getting Minny to part with Towns if they are bringing Jaylen back instead of Lillard. An A Edwards / Jaylen / Gobert big three is interesting.

One and three are far from a given. The GSW one is the only high likelihood package available. Not that different from MIA's trade package of Herro, N Jovic, J Jaquez & picks.

Could OKC or NOP get involved?

(4) Would NOP trade Zion or Ingram if bringing back Jaylen?

(5) Would OKC part with Giddey & Jalen Williams in order to get Jaylen Brown?

I like the NOP one. They seem to want a change and are sick of how injury prone their two forwards are. So solid likelihood they'd be on board for that.

The OKC one is a tougher sell. I'm not sure I do that if I am OKC. I like the passing and team offense they are developing there with Giddey and Jalen Williams alongside SGA. They have Chet as a future star PF. Good quality with Dort and a young guard in Cason Wallace. I'm not sure I would disrupt that for Jaylen Brown. Then again, Jaylen and SGA could have Tatum & Jaylen vibes.

G: C Wallace
G: SGA
F: Jaylen
F: Chet
C: (future center)

That is a strong looking team.

I love the variety and versatility of their current cast of characters though. Feels like cutting off options early in the process to trade away key pieces for Jaylen at this point in the game. And without a key center yet to make such a win-now move worthwhile. 

[Vermont Green]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

Not by a lot. The difference in the first four years of a contract extension between his incumbent team and whoever signs him would be less than 8 million dollars the first four years. The MAIN difference would be the extra fifth year at the end which would be like in the 58 million range for his age 32 season. But at that age he can probably make it up the difference on his next contract anyway anyway by signing a 3+1 and getting back to free agency earlier.

Like I said, it depends a lot on what the other options are and how truly motivated that POR is to trade Lillard.  If Brown signals that absolutely no way he would resign in POR, then I agree, the deal is dead.  But I am not sure it would play out like that.  Maybe.

But if Brown says I am not committing to resigning, I will explore my options, including resigning, at the appropriate time, then maybe it is a risk worth taking for POR.

Ya my main point is that for a team that's going to be bad next year I just can't see a situation in which trading for a guy who can't be extended right now in Brown makes any sense. Almsot regardless of what Brown tells you its too big a risk.

Third team.  Of course I can’t suggest which one but Brown should be a lot more desirable to a third team than Herro.

Mostly, I see POR running into the same problem with Jaylen. If Jaylen is only willing to stay if his new team is a contender, that limits the number of teams who can pursue him. Most of those teams do not have attractive trade proposals for POR. Most of them have older vets who are not of interest to POR. Like MIL with Middleton & Jrue. That type of thing. Teams that do have good young stars mostly have PGs (Trae, Morant) which POR already has with Scoot Henderson.

Here are the best ideas that come to mind:

(1) Maybe Cleveland could be convinced to trade Donovan Mitchell for a bigger wing to make their roster construction / balance better.

(2) Golden State could be an option. CP3, Kuminga, Moody & picks.

(3) Maybe POR has a shot at getting Minny to part with Towns if they are bringing Jaylen back instead of Lillard. An A Edwards / Jaylen / Gobert big three is interesting.

One and three are far from a given. The GSW one is the only high likelihood package available. Not that different from MIA's trade package of Herro, N Jovic, J Jaquez & picks.

Could OKC or NOP get involved?

(4) Would NOP trade Zion or Ingram if bringing back Jaylen?

(5) Would OKC part with Giddey & Jalen Williams in order to get Jaylen Brown?

I like the NOP one. They seem to want a change and are sick of how injury prone their two forwards are. So solid likelihood they'd be on board for that.

The OKC one is a tougher sell. I'm not sure I do that if I am OKC.

Hard to believe that any of those other teams are better options for Brown to sign.  I think POR is probably as good a place as any for Brown.  If he takes this to UFA, very few teams are going to be able to offer him a max contract, other than the team he is on.  And those teams that might be able to offer a max contract, are not going to be any better situations than POR.

There is no question that any team that trades for Brown is assuming some risk.  But if POR has him, they have a far better chance of keeping him than they would have to attract some other high end FA.

In any case, I don't think it is likely that Brown is traded to POR or anywhere else.  But this is the type of deal that you have to think of if you are dreaming of getting Lillard.

[Vermont Green]

Changing subjects, the Celtics extended a QO to JD Davison, correct ($1.8M)?  Why wouldn't he have accepted this already?  The Celtics can rescind the offer at any point, right?  If they do that and fill his roster slot with some vet min signing, he would likely be stuck with a 2-way contract unless some other teams signs him to a regular roster contract.  But he is not likely to get any more than the QO from another team so why not jump on the QO and accept it?

And if he does accept this QO, is there any possibility that he could still end up as a 2-way player again?  There must be something here I don't understand.

[Celtics2021]

Changing subjects, the Celtics extended a QO to JD Davison, correct ($1.8M)?  Why wouldn't he have accepted this already?  The Celtics can rescind the offer at any point, right?  If they do that and fill his roster slot with some vet min signing, he would likely be stuck with a 2-way contract unless some other teams signs him to a regular roster contract.  But he is not likely to get any more than the QO from another team so why not jump on the QO and accept it?

And if he does accept this QO, is there any possibility that he could still end up as a 2-way player again?  There must be something here I don't understand.

His QO is for a 2-way contract, which is why he hasn't accepted it at this point I imagine.

[Neurotic Guy]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

Not by a lot. The difference in the first four years of a contract extension between his incumbent team and whoever signs him would be less than 8 million dollars the first four years. The MAIN difference would be the extra fifth year at the end which would be like in the 58 million range for his age 32 season. But at that age he can probably make it up the difference on his next contract anyway anyway by signing a 3+1 and getting back to free agency earlier.

Like I said, it depends a lot on what the other options are and how truly motivated that POR is to trade Lillard.  If Brown signals that absolutely no way he would resign in POR, then I agree, the deal is dead.  But I am not sure it would play out like that.  Maybe.

But if Brown says I am not committing to resigning, I will explore my options, including resigning, at the appropriate time, then maybe it is a risk worth taking for POR.

Ya my main point is that for a team that's going to be bad next year I just can't see a situation in which trading for a guy who can't be extended right now in Brown makes any sense. Almsot regardless of what Brown tells you its too big a risk.

Third team.  Of course I can’t suggest which one but Brown should be a lot more desirable to a third team than Herro.

Mostly, I see POR running into the same problem with Jaylen. If Jaylen is only willing to stay if his new team is a contender, that limits the number of teams who can pursue him. Most of those teams do not have attractive trade proposals for POR. Most of them have older vets who are not of interest to POR. Like MIL with Middleton & Jrue. That type of thing. Teams that do have good young stars mostly have PGs (Trae, Morant) which POR already has with Scoot Henderson.

Here are the best ideas that come to mind:

(1) Maybe Cleveland could be convinced to trade Donovan Mitchell for a bigger wing to make their roster construction / balance better.

(2) Golden State could be an option. CP3, Kuminga, Moody & picks.

(3) Maybe POR has a shot at getting Minny to part with Towns if they are bringing Jaylen back instead of Lillard. An A Edwards / Jaylen / Gobert big three is interesting.

One and three are far from a given. The GSW one is the only high likelihood package available. Not that different from MIA's trade package of Herro, N Jovic, J Jaquez & picks.

Could OKC or NOP get involved?

(4) Would NOP trade Zion or Ingram if bringing back Jaylen?

(5) Would OKC part with Giddey & Jalen Williams in order to get Jaylen Brown?

I like the NOP one. They seem to want a change and are sick of how injury prone their two forwards are. So solid likelihood they'd be on board for that.

The OKC one is a tougher sell. I'm not sure I do that if I am OKC.

Hard to believe that any of those other teams are better options for Brown to sign.  I think POR is probably as good a place as any for Brown.  If he takes this to UFA, very few teams are going to be able to offer him a max contract, other than the team he is on.  And those teams that might be able to offer a max contract, are not going to be any better situations than POR.

There is no question that any team that trades for Brown is assuming some risk.  But if POR has him, they have a far better chance of keeping him than they would have to attract some other high end FA.

In any case, I don't think it is likely that Brown is traded to POR or anywhere else.  But this is the type of deal that you have to think of if you are dreaming of getting Lillard.

So, one season to see how Simons, Brown, Grant, Nurkic, and Henderson look together.  And if JB signs long-term that’s a nice looking 5 if Henderson is what he seems like he’ll be. If Brown leaves, the 50M that would have gone to Dame looks like spendable capital to replace JB. I’m not sure it isn’t worth the risk. 

[86MaxwellSmart]

Scoot is gonna be an amazing player...go there Jaylen...now.

[Vermont Green]

Changing subjects, the Celtics extended a QO to JD Davison, correct ($1.8M)?  Why wouldn't he have accepted this already?  The Celtics can rescind the offer at any point, right?  If they do that and fill his roster slot with some vet min signing, he would likely be stuck with a 2-way contract unless some other teams signs him to a regular roster contract.  But he is not likely to get any more than the QO from another team so why not jump on the QO and accept it?

And if he does accept this QO, is there any possibility that he could still end up as a 2-way player again?  There must be something here I don't understand.

His QO is for a 2-way contract, which is why he hasn't accepted it at this point I imagine.

OK, that would explain it but the report was that it was a QO for $1.8M, could that really be for a 2-way?  I think another year on a 2-way is the right thing for Davison, I don't see him as quite ready to be a regular roster guy.  But I like him as a prospect.

The Celtics also extended a $1.8 million qualifying offer to JD Davison. Last year's second-round pick spent his rookie campaign on a two-way deal.

NBA G League 2 way contract salary will be $560,000 for the 2023-24 season. Two way contracts pay half of what a rookie would typically earn.

In the 2022-23 season, the minimum salary for rookie players was $1,017,781 per year. If a player signed a two-way contract, they would earn exactly half of that amount, which is $508,891 per annum.

[Vermont Green]

So, one season to see how Simons, Brown, Grant, Nurkic, and Henderson look together.  And if JB signs long-term that’s a nice looking 5 if Henderson is what he seems like he’ll be. If Brown leaves, the 50M that would have gone to Dame looks like spendable capital to replace JB. I’m not sure it isn’t worth the risk.

Actually, the core would likely be Henderson, Simons, Brown, J. Grant, and RWill, but yes, to me, that would be the idea.  Seems to me to be a great situation for Brown, if he doesn't stay in Boston.

[Celtics2021]

Changing subjects, the Celtics extended a QO to JD Davison, correct ($1.8M)?  Why wouldn't he have accepted this already?  The Celtics can rescind the offer at any point, right?  If they do that and fill his roster slot with some vet min signing, he would likely be stuck with a 2-way contract unless some other teams signs him to a regular roster contract.  But he is not likely to get any more than the QO from another team so why not jump on the QO and accept it?

And if he does accept this QO, is there any possibility that he could still end up as a 2-way player again?  There must be something here I don't understand.

His QO is for a 2-way contract, which is why he hasn't accepted it at this point I imagine.

OK, that would explain it but the report was that it was a QO for $1.8M, could that really be for a 2-way?  I think another year on a 2-way is the right thing for Davison, I don't see him as quite ready to be a regular roster guy.  But I like him as a prospect.

The Celtics also extended a $1.8 million qualifying offer to JD Davison. Last year's second-round pick spent his rookie campaign on a two-way deal.

Yeah, I think that report was lacking some details.  All 2-ways can be converted to an NBA contract, and his NBA salary will be $1.8 million if he's converted.

[Vermont Green]

Changing subjects, the Celtics extended a QO to JD Davison, correct ($1.8M)?  Why wouldn't he have accepted this already?  The Celtics can rescind the offer at any point, right?  If they do that and fill his roster slot with some vet min signing, he would likely be stuck with a 2-way contract unless some other teams signs him to a regular roster contract.  But he is not likely to get any more than the QO from another team so why not jump on the QO and accept it?

And if he does accept this QO, is there any possibility that he could still end up as a 2-way player again?  There must be something here I don't understand.

His QO is for a 2-way contract, which is why he hasn't accepted it at this point I imagine.

OK, that would explain it but the report was that it was a QO for $1.8M, could that really be for a 2-way?  I think another year on a 2-way is the right thing for Davison, I don't see him as quite ready to be a regular roster guy.  But I like him as a prospect.

The Celtics also extended a $1.8 million qualifying offer to JD Davison. Last year's second-round pick spent his rookie campaign on a two-way deal.

Yeah, I think that report was lacking some details.  All 2-ways can be converted to an NBA contract, and his NBA salary will be $1.8 million if he's converted.

OK, that all makes sense, even if the details have not been fully reported.  So the safe assumption is that he has a QO for a $560K 2-way contract, not a $1.8M regular roster contract.

Dalano Banton signed a guaranteed 2-year regular roster contract, right?  so he is officially on the roster.  I think that pretty much assures that Davison stays on a 2-way if he stays with the Celtics.  Unless of course he gets a better offer from another team and the Celtics decide to match.

So the end of the roster as it stands is:

Brissett (2 year Guaranteed)
Banton  (2 year Guaranteed)

Kornet  (1 year, not guaranteed)
Champagnie (1 year, not guaranteed)

Davison  (QO for 2-way)

Walsh  (yet to be signed but could be regular contract or 2-way)

[Vermont Green]

Updating the roster score board again, based on the clarifications regarding Davison's QO, I think this is where we stand:

White         Pritchard        Banton
Brown        Brogdon         Champagnie (NG)
Tatum        Hauser           Brissett
Porzingis    (Grant)           OPEN
Horford       RWilliams       Kornet (NG)

2-way (assumed):  Davison  Walsh  OPEN

We have one fully open roster spot as well as 2 that could easily be opened up by waiving either Champagnie (very likely) or Kornet (I suspect he makes the cut again).

Option 1:  Sign Grant and pick up a vet min  for the open spot (maybe even Griffin again)
Option 2:  Sign and trade Grant for up to 2 players to fill the spots.

In both cases, we simply continue to have Champagnie and Kornet keep the roster spots warm and then cut either to upgrade if a better option is available.

I think we are in pretty good roster shape.  The second apron and tax maybe not so much but the roster looks really good to me.

[celticinorlando]

Losing grant means power forward is very thin. There has be a legit nba playing brought in. No more of what Brad has brought in as of late.

I don’t think Banton makes the team. He will be sent to Maine

[Vermont Green]

Losing grant means power forward is very thin. There has be a legit nba playing brought in. No more of what Brad has brought in as of late.

I don’t think Banton makes the team. He will be sent to Maine

The remaining FA options are pretty slim at this point.  If we don't sign Grant, we probably have to trade Brogdon if we want to bring in a "legit NBA player" to fill the back up PF slot.

As to Banton, if I understand correctly, he is signed to a guaranteed 2-year contract for a regular roster position.  Whether he is sent to G-League or not, he is taking up a roster spot, like Nesmith was when we played in the G-League.  At least that is what Spotrac is reporting for his contract.

[Roy H.]

Losing grant means power forward is very thin. There has be a legit nba playing brought in. No more of what Brad has brought in as of late.

I don’t think Banton makes the team. He will be sent to Maine

The remaining FA options are pretty slim at this point.  If we don't sign Grant, we probably have to trade Brogdon if we want to bring in a "legit NBA player" to fill the back up PF slot.

As to Banton, if I understand correctly, he is signed to a guaranteed 2-year contract for a regular roster position.  Whether he is sent to G-League or not, he is taking up a roster spot, like Nesmith was when we played in the G-League.  At least that is what Spotrac is reporting for his contract.

So then we become really weak at guard.

Brad has mismanaged this off-season.  KP is nice, but is he so nice that he's worth Smart, Brogdon, Grant, Gallo and Muscula?

And, are we really one of the least desirable free agent destinations in the league now, to the point where we can't sign anybody other than dumpster dives?