Would we have won with Ime?

[celticinorlando]

Kornet was a dumb signing.

Hauser obviously isn't trusted. I mean Miami has 2 or 3 Hauser's and they play important minutes.

If you are not going to use the only wing depth we had...find someone new

[Phantom255x]

Kornet was a dumb signing.

Hauser obviously isn't trusted. I mean Miami has 2 or 3 Hauser's and they play important minutes.

If you are not going to use the only wing depth we had...find someone new

I just find it funny that when it was clear we were relying on the 3, we let arguably our best 3-point shooter sit on the bench basically that entire series. Didn't even try him Game 7 until it was way too late anyways.

He still would have been way better than a hobbled Brogdon, that's for sure. Even on defense.

[Phantom255x]

I think we could have made the Finals for sure. Idk if we beat Denver though.

The way our frontcourt played this postseason, Jokic would have absolutely demolished us.

[Celtics4ever]

Kornet was a dumb signing.

Hauser obviously isn't trusted. I mean Miami has 2 or 3 Hauser's and they play important minutes.

If you are not going to use the only wing depth we had...find someone new

I just find it funny that when it was clear we were relying on the 3, we let arguably our best 3-point shooter sit on the bench basically that entire series. Didn't even try him Game 7 until it was way too late anyways.

He still would have been way better than a hobbled Brogdon, that's for sure. Even on defense.

No, he wouldn't have been or he would have played.   Maz was on the hot seat, and would have played Hauser if he thought it would  help us win.   

Hauser can shoot, but keep in mind this harde,r against playoff level defense.   He cannot play playoff D, either.  It took Strus a few years to get there, and Hauser isn't there yet.   Hopefully, he gets there.   When rotations get shorter, better athletes play, this is bad for Sam.  If your not a great athlete it takes more effort to compete, given what we saw it was not there effort wise.   Look at his playoff stats against the Heat, there was nothing to indicate he deserved more playing time

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hausesa01.html#last5

Truth is Hauser did nothing after the ATL series.  He was 1-5 vs. Philly from the three, and 2-8 vs the Heat.  One of those against the Heat was during the blowout during game seven.

Kornet was a dumb signing.   Another more worried about Chemistry than results on the court.  He did eat some minutes though.

[Roy H.]

Kornet was a dumb signing.

Hauser obviously isn't trusted. I mean Miami has 2 or 3 Hauser's and they play important minutes.

If you are not going to use the only wing depth we had...find someone new

I just find it funny that when it was clear we were relying on the 3, we let arguably our best 3-point shooter sit on the bench basically that entire series. Didn't even try him Game 7 until it was way too late anyways.

He still would have been way better than a hobbled Brogdon, that's for sure. Even on defense.

No, he wouldn't have been or he would have played.   Maz was on the hot seat, and would have played Hauser if he thought it would  help us win.   

Hauser can shoot, but keep in mind this harde,r against playoff level defense.   He cannot play playoff D, either.  It took Strus a few years to get there, and Hauser isn't there yet.   Hopefully, he gets there.   When rotations get shorter, better athletes play, this is bad for Sam.  If your not a great athlete it takes more effort to compete, given what we saw it was not there effort wise.   Look at his playoff stats against the Heat, there was nothing to indicate he deserved more playing time

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hausesa01.html#last5

Truth is Hauser did nothing after the ATL series.  He was 1-5 vs. Philly from the three, and 2-8 vs the Heat.  One of those against the Heat was during the blowout during game seven.

Kornet was a dumb signing.   Another more worried about Chemistry than results on the court.  He did eat some minutes though.

One note:  Joe's thoughts about what would help us win aren't necessarily the same as what would actually help us win.

[Moranis]

"Over the course of the season" being the key words.  Ime had to break the team of bad habits.  It took until about January.  From that point we dominated."

Coach Maz was the opposite, we dominated until Dec and got worse from there.  Do you think that was carryover from Ime?

I haven't checked the numbers, but just going by the "best offense in history" heights we reached early, I think it was probably partially a carry over.  Another part was exceptionally good play from role players like Hauser, who was extremely accurate from outside in October and November, before dipping in December and January.

Comparing and contrasting down the stretch (January 1 - end of season)

2022:  106.7 DRtg; 119.4 ORtg; Net Rtg +12.7

2023:  112.1 DRtg; 118.5 ORtg; Net Rtg +6.4

So, compared to last year, we gave up 5.4 more points per 100 possessions, scored 0.9 points fewer per 100 possessions, and had a decline in Net Rtg of 6.3 points per 100 possessions.  That's a pretty huge differential.

or maybe the end of 22 and the start of 23 were not realistically sustainable levels and the whole season actually matters.  Ime was playing an 8 man rotation down the stretch of 22 and due to injuries and roster issues Joe was playing an 8 man rotation at the start of 23.  Thatnisnt sustainable but can lead to tremendous highs.  The playoff runs are fairly similar except Tatum didn't get hurt and Brown didn't forget how to shoot in game 7 in 22 and that happened in game 7 in 23.

Tatum and Brown led the playoffs in turnovers both seasons as well. 

I don't think Joe should have the job, but I think people are really misremembering last year.  Ime wasn't much better.  The defense was a bit better, but the offense was much worse.  Both teams were turnover prone and made dumb mistakes.  I just don't think the grass was a whole lot greener under Ime and Ime had a lot more coaching help than Joe has.

[Roy H.]

"Over the course of the season" being the key words.  Ime had to break the team of bad habits.  It took until about January.  From that point we dominated."

Coach Maz was the opposite, we dominated until Dec and got worse from there.  Do you think that was carryover from Ime?

I haven't checked the numbers, but just going by the "best offense in history" heights we reached early, I think it was probably partially a carry over.  Another part was exceptionally good play from role players like Hauser, who was extremely accurate from outside in October and November, before dipping in December and January.

Comparing and contrasting down the stretch (January 1 - end of season)

2022:  106.7 DRtg; 119.4 ORtg; Net Rtg +12.7

2023:  112.1 DRtg; 118.5 ORtg; Net Rtg +6.4

So, compared to last year, we gave up 5.4 more points per 100 possessions, scored 0.9 points fewer per 100 possessions, and had a decline in Net Rtg of 6.3 points per 100 possessions.  That's a pretty huge differential.

or maybe the end of 22 and the start of 23 were not realistically sustainable levels and the whole season actually matters.  Ime was playing an 8 man rotation down the stretch of 22 and due to injuries and roster issues Joe was playing an 8 man rotation at the start of 23.  Thatnisnt sustainable but can lead to tremendous highs.  The playoff runs are fairly similar except Tatum didn't get hurt and Brown didn't forget how to shoot in game 7 in 22 and that happened in game 7 in 23.

Tatum and Brown led the playoffs in turnovers both seasons as well. 

I don't think Joe should have the job, but I think people are really misremembering last year.  Ime wasn't much better.  The defense was a bit better, but the offense was much worse.  Both teams were turnover prone and made dumb mistakes.  I just don't think the grass was a whole lot greener under Ime and Ime had a lot more coaching help than Joe has.

So just ignore the stats and the sustained level of play?  Ignore that the team was .500 the year before?

Under your narrative, this year's team is better than last year's, which is just silly for anybody who watched each season play out.

[Kernewek]

Kornet was a dumb signing.

Hauser obviously isn't trusted. I mean Miami has 2 or 3 Hauser's and they play important minutes.

If you are not going to use the only wing depth we had...find someone new

I just find it funny that when it was clear we were relying on the 3, we let arguably our best 3-point shooter sit on the bench basically that entire series. Didn't even try him Game 7 until it was way too late anyways.

He still would have been way better than a hobbled Brogdon, that's for sure. Even on defense.

No, he wouldn't have been or he would have played.   Maz was on the hot seat, and would have played Hauser if he thought it would  help us win.   

Hauser can shoot, but keep in mind this harde,r against playoff level defense.   He cannot play playoff D, either.  It took Strus a few years to get there, and Hauser isn't there yet.   Hopefully, he gets there.   When rotations get shorter, better athletes play, this is bad for Sam.  If your not a great athlete it takes more effort to compete, given what we saw it was not there effort wise.   Look at his playoff stats against the Heat, there was nothing to indicate he deserved more playing time

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hausesa01.html#last5

Truth is Hauser did nothing after the ATL series.  He was 1-5 vs. Philly from the three, and 2-8 vs the Heat.  One of those against the Heat was during the blowout during game seven.

Kornet was a dumb signing.   Another more worried about Chemistry than results on the court.  He did eat some minutes though.

One note:  Joe's thoughts about what would help us win aren't necessarily the same as what would actually help us win.

That’s correct. The fact that someone can correctly diagnose a problem does not validate their proposed solution - nor the assumption that there is a solution to be had.

So, now that we have invalidated everyone’s thinking equally, perhaps there is something to the idea that if we, the great unwashed, have considered something, the people who actually have something to lose by, well, losing, may have also considered it?

[Moranis]

"Over the course of the season" being the key words.  Ime had to break the team of bad habits.  It took until about January.  From that point we dominated."

Coach Maz was the opposite, we dominated until Dec and got worse from there.  Do you think that was carryover from Ime?

I haven't checked the numbers, but just going by the "best offense in history" heights we reached early, I think it was probably partially a carry over.  Another part was exceptionally good play from role players like Hauser, who was extremely accurate from outside in October and November, before dipping in December and January.

Comparing and contrasting down the stretch (January 1 - end of season)

2022:  106.7 DRtg; 119.4 ORtg; Net Rtg +12.7

2023:  112.1 DRtg; 118.5 ORtg; Net Rtg +6.4

So, compared to last year, we gave up 5.4 more points per 100 possessions, scored 0.9 points fewer per 100 possessions, and had a decline in Net Rtg of 6.3 points per 100 possessions.  That's a pretty huge differential.

or maybe the end of 22 and the start of 23 were not realistically sustainable levels and the whole season actually matters.  Ime was playing an 8 man rotation down the stretch of 22 and due to injuries and roster issues Joe was playing an 8 man rotation at the start of 23.  Thatnisnt sustainable but can lead to tremendous highs.  The playoff runs are fairly similar except Tatum didn't get hurt and Brown didn't forget how to shoot in game 7 in 22 and that happened in game 7 in 23.

Tatum and Brown led the playoffs in turnovers both seasons as well. 

I don't think Joe should have the job, but I think people are really misremembering last year.  Ime wasn't much better.  The defense was a bit better, but the offense was much worse.  Both teams were turnover prone and made dumb mistakes.  I just don't think the grass was a whole lot greener under Ime and Ime had a lot more coaching help than Joe has.

So just ignore the stats and the sustained level of play?  Ignore that the team was .500 the year before?

Under your narrative, this year's team is better than last year's, which is just silly for anybody who watched each season play out.

Not what I said, but they did win more games this year, did they not?  You are what your record is, correct?

[SparzWizard]

"Over the course of the season" being the key words.  Ime had to break the team of bad habits.  It took until about January.  From that point we dominated."

Coach Maz was the opposite, we dominated until Dec and got worse from there.  Do you think that was carryover from Ime?

I haven't checked the numbers, but just going by the "best offense in history" heights we reached early, I think it was probably partially a carry over. Another part was exceptionally good play from role players like Hauser, who was extremely accurate from outside in October and November, before dipping in December and January.

Comparing and contrasting down the stretch (January 1 - end of season)

2022:  106.7 DRtg; 119.4 ORtg; Net Rtg +12.7

2023:  112.1 DRtg; 118.5 ORtg; Net Rtg +6.4

So, compared to last year, we gave up 5.4 more points per 100 possessions, scored 0.9 points fewer per 100 possessions, and had a decline in Net Rtg of 6.3 points per 100 possessions.  That's a pretty huge differential.

The refusal to play Hauser as the season went on bothers me. He consistently stepped up when given more minutes

Yeah, I'm sure that managing a rotation is really tricky, but a lot of guys seemed to temporarily slump and then were out of the rotation almost completely.  I think that guys like Grant, Hauser, Muscula and Pritchard all could have helped more than they did, both in the regular season and the playoffs.

I also worry a bit about the "political" aspect of some of those decisions.  Grant Williams is VP of the NBAPA.  Brogdon and Brown are Assistant VPs, I think.  Do those guys speak highly of Joe, because he's a player's coach?  Or lowly, because he doesn't know what he's doing and he's happy to bury guys on the bench based upon a whim?  It's hard to say.

Why do we have like three Celtics players being NBAPA and VPs? What about the other 29 teams in the league, can't they be nominated to take on those roles? G.Will being First VP? His on-court behavior don't look like a F-VP to me lol

[Roy H.]

"Over the course of the season" being the key words.  Ime had to break the team of bad habits.  It took until about January.  From that point we dominated."

Coach Maz was the opposite, we dominated until Dec and got worse from there.  Do you think that was carryover from Ime?

I haven't checked the numbers, but just going by the "best offense in history" heights we reached early, I think it was probably partially a carry over. Another part was exceptionally good play from role players like Hauser, who was extremely accurate from outside in October and November, before dipping in December and January.

Comparing and contrasting down the stretch (January 1 - end of season)

2022:  106.7 DRtg; 119.4 ORtg; Net Rtg +12.7

2023:  112.1 DRtg; 118.5 ORtg; Net Rtg +6.4

So, compared to last year, we gave up 5.4 more points per 100 possessions, scored 0.9 points fewer per 100 possessions, and had a decline in Net Rtg of 6.3 points per 100 possessions.  That's a pretty huge differential.

The refusal to play Hauser as the season went on bothers me. He consistently stepped up when given more minutes

Yeah, I'm sure that managing a rotation is really tricky, but a lot of guys seemed to temporarily slump and then were out of the rotation almost completely.  I think that guys like Grant, Hauser, Muscula and Pritchard all could have helped more than they did, both in the regular season and the playoffs.

I also worry a bit about the "political" aspect of some of those decisions.  Grant Williams is VP of the NBAPA.  Brogdon and Brown are Assistant VPs, I think.  Do those guys speak highly of Joe, because he's a player's coach?  Or lowly, because he doesn't know what he's doing and he's happy to bury guys on the bench based upon a whim?  It's hard to say.

Why do we have like three Celtics players being NBAPA and VPs? What about the other 29 teams in the league, can't they be nominated to take on those roles? G.Will being First VP? His on-court behavior don't look like a F-VP to me lol

No idea.  It looks like there are nine players in leadership, and we have three of them.  We also have a separate player rep, Pritchard.

https://nbpa.com/leadership

[boscel33]

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, Ime is gutting Joe's staff:

The Boston Globe’s Gary Washburn:

"According to an NBA source, assistants Ben Sullivan, Aaron Miles, and Mike Moser are expected to join Ime Udoka’s staff in Houston, leaving three or more openings on Mazzulla’s staff."

[Roy H.]

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, Ime is gutting Joe's staff:

The Boston Globe’s Gary Washburn:

"According to an NBA source, assistants Ben Sullivan, Aaron Miles, and Mike Moser are expected to join Ime Udoka’s staff in Houston, leaving three or more openings on Mazzulla’s staff."

You would assume it's more than three, since we never replaced Stoudamire, either, nor did we replace Joe or Hardy with outside help.

[Celtics4ever]

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, Ime is gutting Joe's staff:

The Boston Globe’s Gary Washburn:

"According to an NBA source, assistants Ben Sullivan, Aaron Miles, and Mike Moser are expected to join Ime Udoka’s staff in Houston, leaving three or more openings on Mazzulla’s staff."

I don't see that as a bad thing?   Were the players ready every game?   Did we solve problems as series went on?  Stoudamire hurt, but these other guys I am not so sure.

Call Frank Vogel,  Monty Williams, Kenny Atkinson or Dave Joerger,   I would like to get Dave Joerger as a defensive assistant.  If we are keeping Joe, and that remains to be seen, but probable get him some Veteran Coach Help.

[Surferdad]

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, Ime is gutting Joe's staff:

The Boston Globe’s Gary Washburn:

"According to an NBA source, assistants Ben Sullivan, Aaron Miles, and Mike Moser are expected to join Ime Udoka’s staff in Houston, leaving three or more openings on Mazzulla’s staff."

I don't see that as a bad thing?   Were the players ready every game?   Did we solve problems as series went on?  Stoudamire hurt, but these other guys I am not so sure.

Call Frank Vogel,  Monty Williams, Kenny Atkinson or Dave Joerger,   I would like to get Dave Joerger as a defensive assistant.  If we are keeping Joe, and that remains to be seen, but probable get him some Veteran Coach Help.

I've been advocating for wholesale turnover of the coaching staff, and Ime just got us a bit closer to that. Is there really that much allegiance by the FO to Joe Mazzula already? I hope they just let him go and start over with an experienced NBA HC and new staff.