Devastating Loss?

[Ed Monix]

This take may sound twisted, but I am a bit relieved the Celtics lost.

From a pride & historical standpoint, IMO this team would have been pulverized by the Denver Nuggets.

My biggest fear was by making the Finals, systemic issues would be ignored and Celtics management would run everything back.

After what should be seen as a wasted season, HOPEFULLY, a major review will conducted from top to bottom.

Change is needed, so perhaps we all need to look on the bright side
(and right side) of life.

[SparzWizard]

Would've been better to be swept than lose Game 7 at home after winning its last 3.

That would've triggered execs to clean the house more efficiently.

[ozgod]

I'm not that devastated, I guess because after we went 0-3 down I accepted that the next loss was going to cause us to be out. My fear was always that once they started missing their 3s their defense would drop off and it happened again tonight and they deserved to lose. I posted these stats after our Game 5 blowout, updated it for Game 6 and now Game 7:

Code: [Select]

[code]
R FG% 3FG% STL BLK TO oFG% o3FG% oSTL oBLK oTO
G1 L .519 .345 6 3 15 .541 .516 12 3 12
G2 L .468 .286 2 9 15 .457 .346 9 5 10
G3 L .398 .262 3 3 15 .568 .543 7 4 9
G4 W .512 .400 8 8 10 .436 .250 5 2 15
G5 W .506 .410 13 4 9 .513 .391 6 2 16
G6 W .436 .200 4 8 12 .355 .457 5 4 5
G7 L .390 .214 6 4 15 .488 .500 7 2 12
Every time in this series we've shot below .400 from 3 we've lost except for Game 6 and we needed a literal last second tip in from DWhite to win. Anytime you shoot bad you're putting yourself in a hole to begin with, especially a team as reliant on the 3 for offense as we are, but it makes it doubly important to get back defensively when those 3s miss because it's just reality that it's easier to defend in the half court after made shots than after misses, especially missed 3s. We weren't able to hit the side of a barn door again tonight but we compounded it by letting Miami shoot 50% from 3, many of which were open. If they're going to be a 3 point shooting team Joe or whoever is in charge next season needs to devise coverages that don't leave us exposed after misses, because those are why we have such big deviations in results - either we blow teams away or we suffer disappointing losses.

So I'm disappointed but not devastated. I posted on another thread that I think maybe we all might have overrated them on the basis of their ceiling, and tried to ignore the fact that their floor was pretty bad, and that there was a big delta between the two. Until they bring up that floor and close that delta they will keep tantalizing us with their best and disappointing us with their worst.

Also have to give the Heat credit for their mental fortitude, to come back and blow us out in our gym after losing a heartbreaker in Game 6, to have role players shooting 50% from 3 in someone else's gym, that's some cojones. Those guys are warriors, less talented, undrafted, whatever you want to call it, but they get the most of their limited talent, which is more than we can say for our team. We need more guys like that, warriors who will give it their all every single game because they don't take their inclusion in the NBA for granted.

[blink]

I'm not that devastated, I guess because after we went 0-3 down I accepted that the next loss was going to cause us to be out. My fear was always that once they started missing their 3s their defense would drop off and it happened again tonight and they deserved to lose. I posted these stats after our Game 5 blowout, updated it for Game 6 and now Game 7:

Code: [Select]

[code]
R FG% 3FG% STL BLK TO oFG% o3FG% oSTL oBLK oTO
G1 L .519 .345 6 3 15 .541 .516 12 3 12
G2 L .468 .286 2 9 15 .457 .346 9 5 10
G3 L .398 .262 3 3 15 .568 .543 7 4 9
G4 W .512 .400 8 8 10 .436 .250 5 2 15
G5 W .506 .410 13 4 9 .513 .391 6 2 16
G6 W .436 .200 4 8 12 .355 .457 5 4 5
G7 L .390 .214 6 4 15 .488 .500 7 2 12
Every time in this series we've shot below .400 from 3 we've lost except for Game 6 and we needed a literal last second tip in from DWhite to win. Anytime you shoot bad you're putting yourself in a hole to begin with, especially a team as reliant on the 3 for offense as we are, but it makes it doubly important to get back defensively when those 3s miss because it's just reality that it's easier to defend in the half court after made shots than after misses, especially missed 3s. We weren't able to hit the side of a barn door again tonight but we compounded it by letting Miami shoot 50% from 3, many of which were open. If they're going to be a 3 point shooting team Joe or whoever is in charge next season needs to devise coverages that don't leave us exposed after misses, because those are why we have such big deviations in results - either we blow teams away or we suffer disappointing losses.

So I'm disappointed but not devastated. I posted on another thread that I think maybe we all might have overrated them on the basis of their ceiling, and tried to ignore the fact that their floor was pretty bad, and that there was a big delta between the two. Until they bring up that floor and close that delta they will keep tantalizing us with their best and disappointing us with their worst.

If I am convinced of ANYTHING after this playoff run it is that we need to completely revamp our offense.  The all 3's all the time approach isn't going to win us a title.  That needs to be let go of as an approach.  Unfortunately, our current rookie coach doesn't seem like he is willing to make any adjustments or changes, so, lets see if he survives for a 2nd season.  I prefer to cut the cord on the joe experiment.

[gouki88]

It is a fairly weird sensation I'm feeling after this one. I had quite vocally checked out after the 3-0 hole we found ourselves in. I was pretty open about that on here, moving my sights towards the offseason. Then we win two good games in G4 and G5 - interesting, but not necessarily worth getting too excited about.

We then win a close G6, surviving a Miami fightback and (perhaps flukily) coming up with the W in the clutch against Spo. However, I didn't feel as inspired or enthused by this as I probably expected to. I wasn't filled with confidence by how we played, I have no faith in Mazzulla as anything but a junior assistant coach, and our 6MOY was toast.

So I'm not sure if devastating is the right word. Compared to expectations at the New Year, yeah - probably. Compared to expectations after how we've played this playoff run? I don't think so. Going down in such a way was completely in-line with how this team has performed this playoff run.

Not going to be a fun offseason. Especially if we sit on our hands.

[ozgod]

I'm not that devastated, I guess because after we went 0-3 down I accepted that the next loss was going to cause us to be out. My fear was always that once they started missing their 3s their defense would drop off and it happened again tonight and they deserved to lose. I posted these stats after our Game 5 blowout, updated it for Game 6 and now Game 7:

Code: [Select]

[code]
R FG% 3FG% STL BLK TO oFG% o3FG% oSTL oBLK oTO
G1 L .519 .345 6 3 15 .541 .516 12 3 12
G2 L .468 .286 2 9 15 .457 .346 9 5 10
G3 L .398 .262 3 3 15 .568 .543 7 4 9
G4 W .512 .400 8 8 10 .436 .250 5 2 15
G5 W .506 .410 13 4 9 .513 .391 6 2 16
G6 W .436 .200 4 8 12 .355 .457 5 4 5
G7 L .390 .214 6 4 15 .488 .500 7 2 12
Every time in this series we've shot below .400 from 3 we've lost except for Game 6 and we needed a literal last second tip in from DWhite to win. Anytime you shoot bad you're putting yourself in a hole to begin with, especially a team as reliant on the 3 for offense as we are, but it makes it doubly important to get back defensively when those 3s miss because it's just reality that it's easier to defend in the half court after made shots than after misses, especially missed 3s. We weren't able to hit the side of a barn door again tonight but we compounded it by letting Miami shoot 50% from 3, many of which were open. If they're going to be a 3 point shooting team Joe or whoever is in charge next season needs to devise coverages that don't leave us exposed after misses, because those are why we have such big deviations in results - either we blow teams away or we suffer disappointing losses.

So I'm disappointed but not devastated. I posted on another thread that I think maybe we all might have overrated them on the basis of their ceiling, and tried to ignore the fact that their floor was pretty bad, and that there was a big delta between the two. Until they bring up that floor and close that delta they will keep tantalizing us with their best and disappointing us with their worst.

If I am convinced of ANYTHING after this playoff run it is that we need to completely revamp our offense.  The all 3's all the time approach isn't going to win us a title.  That needs to be let go of as an approach.  Unfortunately, our current rookie coach doesn't seem like he is willing to make any adjustments or changes, so, lets see if he survives for a 2nd season.  I prefer to cut the cord on the joe experiment.

One of the things you'd hope from a coach is the ability to learn and adjust. In the reality of the NBA sometimes what the quant nerds or statisticians tell you don't always work. Having a feast or famine approach doesn't give you a base to rely on that you can fall back on when things aren't working. You can talk about spacing and 3 point attempts having the highest numerical value of all shot types all day but you need something to fall back on when they're not falling and in this team's case they had nothing. In fact they looked like a rabble at the end.

Though if you look at it, the Heat did win the 3 point battle, they shot 40%+ in 4 games, 39.5% in a 5th, so basically 40% in 5 games, and then a 6th game where they shot 35%. They blew us out of the water on 3s. The one game they shot 25% they lost badly. So you can see why people want to win that three point battle. I wonder if they will shoot that well in the Finals.

Personally if they want to be a three point shooting them I'm ok with it...BUT they need to be able to devise coverages to scramble better and defend when they miss. That has to be consistent make or miss.

[blink]

I'm not that devastated, I guess because after we went 0-3 down I accepted that the next loss was going to cause us to be out. My fear was always that once they started missing their 3s their defense would drop off and it happened again tonight and they deserved to lose. I posted these stats after our Game 5 blowout, updated it for Game 6 and now Game 7:

Code: [Select]

[code]
R FG% 3FG% STL BLK TO oFG% o3FG% oSTL oBLK oTO
G1 L .519 .345 6 3 15 .541 .516 12 3 12
G2 L .468 .286 2 9 15 .457 .346 9 5 10
G3 L .398 .262 3 3 15 .568 .543 7 4 9
G4 W .512 .400 8 8 10 .436 .250 5 2 15
G5 W .506 .410 13 4 9 .513 .391 6 2 16
G6 W .436 .200 4 8 12 .355 .457 5 4 5
G7 L .390 .214 6 4 15 .488 .500 7 2 12
Every time in this series we've shot below .400 from 3 we've lost except for Game 6 and we needed a literal last second tip in from DWhite to win. Anytime you shoot bad you're putting yourself in a hole to begin with, especially a team as reliant on the 3 for offense as we are, but it makes it doubly important to get back defensively when those 3s miss because it's just reality that it's easier to defend in the half court after made shots than after misses, especially missed 3s. We weren't able to hit the side of a barn door again tonight but we compounded it by letting Miami shoot 50% from 3, many of which were open. If they're going to be a 3 point shooting team Joe or whoever is in charge next season needs to devise coverages that don't leave us exposed after misses, because those are why we have such big deviations in results - either we blow teams away or we suffer disappointing losses.

So I'm disappointed but not devastated. I posted on another thread that I think maybe we all might have overrated them on the basis of their ceiling, and tried to ignore the fact that their floor was pretty bad, and that there was a big delta between the two. Until they bring up that floor and close that delta they will keep tantalizing us with their best and disappointing us with their worst.

If I am convinced of ANYTHING after this playoff run it is that we need to completely revamp our offense.  The all 3's all the time approach isn't going to win us a title.  That needs to be let go of as an approach.  Unfortunately, our current rookie coach doesn't seem like he is willing to make any adjustments or changes, so, lets see if he survives for a 2nd season.  I prefer to cut the cord on the joe experiment.

One of the things you'd hope from a coach is the ability to learn and adjust. In the reality of the NBA sometimes what the quant nerds or statisticians tell you don't always work. Having a feast or famine approach doesn't give you a base to rely on that you can fall back on when things aren't working. You can talk about spacing and 3 point attempts having the highest numerical value of all shot types all day but you need something to fall back on when they're not falling and in this team's case they had nothing. In fact they looked like a rabble at the end.

We have extremely skilled scorers on this team, but Joe for some reason refuses to even use their skills at times.

I think that Tatum is really good at the midrange game, he is also good at posting up, and is great when he gets the ball in the elbow extended and can drive or kick.  We don't seem to ever do any of that all all?  Tatum can shoot that 15-17 foot shot like a ft over almost anyone because of his length.  We just never do any of that.  I guess it is a no-no because of 'analytics'...lol.

I think that while JB obviously needs to improve his decision making skills, ball handling, whatever it is, but we too often look for him to always have to put the ball on the floor to drive.  Get JB moving off the ball, bring him across the lane, he is faster, stronger, can jump higher than most other players, and he is killer in that midrange game, but we shouldn't be having him generate that action, it should END up with the ball in his hands at the end of it.  Same thing with JT, he has a good post game, and often has a smaller player on him, but we don't force that action.   

Even Smart has a really good reliable post up game.  Get the ball to Smart in the post, or even in the high post, and collapse the defense and then kick.

We never try to make the defense MOVE.   We never try to run teams ragged with good screens.  We never (or almost never, maybe at the start of the season) move the ball enough to make the defense open up good shots.  I was so shocked at how bad we looked on offense during this series against the heat.  We need a 4 week mini-camp this summer on opening up the offensive game plan (or mainly sacking the live and die by 3 approach).

[Birdman]

 Loss 3 games at home to an 8th seed, unacceptable

[Kernewek]

Disappointed, not devastated.

Regardless of the sport it’s hard to be devastated when the team underachieves, I think. Plus, losing g7 to an injury to our best player? Happens.

[Celtics4ever]

I knew were toast by the middle of the second quarter, the desperation to win was not present.

[Muzzy66]

Truthfully, I would have felt better about it if White didnt get the tip-in and Boston lost in game 6.

At least when we would have had two strong wings and one very respectable, hard fought loss. 

Instead they pushed it to 7 games where they lost in the most embarrassing fashion at home wihtout putting up any semblance of a fight...which is just downright embarassing. 

[scaryjerry]

I mean they were 1 win away from having home court in the nba finals and being the only nba team ever to come back from down 0-3.
Yes it was devastating

[celticinorlando]

Not one bit devastated. Glad it is over to be honest. Been waiting for the other shoe to drop since game 3 where the Celtics quit.

As for game 7 I knew they were done after the first quarter. 0-10 from 3, no ball movement, turnovers and Brown playing hero ball. 15 total points. From that point on acceptance was easy. And then you had the Tatum injury.

I am disappointed because the Celtics had an easy path to the title laid in front of them but these playoffs proved this team is very flawed still. This team was entitled from day one and never played like a hungry team with a chip on its shoulder.

Same bad habits we saw in January we saw all playoffs.

[greg683x]

If they would’ve won they would have to have been far and away the most unlikeable Celtics teams to ever be in the finals.

I’m not really devastated by the loss.  I think a year or two from now we’re all going to look back on this and agree the most devastating part of all this, was the 3 game comeback.  This just stalls all the change that’s needed on this team, and I’m worried that by the time these coaching changes actually get made, we’re going to be having key players, namely Tatum, requesting a trade.

[scaryjerry]

Not one bit devastated. Glad it is over to be honest. Been waiting for the other shoe to drop since game 3 where the Celtics quit.

As for game 7 I knew they were done after the first quarter. 0-10 from 3, no ball movement, turnovers and Brown playing hero ball. 15 total points. From that point on acceptance was easy.

I am disappointed because the Celtics had an easy path to the title laid in front of them but these playoffs proved this team is very flawed still.

It was devastating but I agree with most of your other points.

Game was clearly over after the first quarter, I fully accepted the loss from there and had already assumed a series loss after game 3.
But to come all the way back and win game 6 the way they did does make this a devastating loss.