Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Moranis]

Lakers shot over 50% from 3 and Reaves looked like Jordan.  Offense wasn't great, but the C's lost because of defense.

[Mahk E Mahk]

as much as i dislike joe, it’s not like we didn’t see these type of performances under brad and ime. in fact, not much has really changed.

hmmm…if the coaches have changed, and the supporting cast has turned over a few times, i wonder where the problem lies?
hint: the answer begins with a J.

[CelticSooner]

as much as i dislike joe, it’s not like we didn’t see these type of performances under brad and ime. in fact, not much has really changed.

hmmm…if the coaches have changed, and the supporting cast has turned over a few times, i wonder where the problem lies?
hint: the answer begins with a J.

At least under Udoka he tried to get through to these guys that they needed to get to the basket more and mix things up. He was then replaced for a guy that enables them to fall in love with step backs.

[Moranis]

as much as i dislike joe, it’s not like we didn’t see these type of performances under brad and ime. in fact, not much has really changed.

hmmm…if the coaches have changed, and the supporting cast has turned over a few times, i wonder where the problem lies?
hint: the answer begins with a J.

At least under Udoka he tried to get through to these guys that they needed to get to the basket more and mix things up. He was then replaced for a guy that enables them to fall in love with step backs.

Tatum was 5 of 10 from 3 and 3 of 11 from 2. Seems like he needed to shoot more 3's. And while Brown didn't hit any 3's, he only took 3 of them.

[SparzWizard]

as much as i dislike joe, it’s not like we didn’t see these type of performances under brad and ime. in fact, not much has really changed.

hmmm…if the coaches have changed, and the supporting cast has turned over a few times, i wonder where the problem lies?
hint: the answer begins with a J.

JOE.

and Jaylen.

[jpotter33]

as much as i dislike joe, it’s not like we didn’t see these type of performances under brad and ime. in fact, not much has really changed.

hmmm…if the coaches have changed, and the supporting cast has turned over a few times, i wonder where the problem lies?
hint: the answer begins with a J.

We absolutely did NOT have these kinds of games under Udoka, at least after the first third to half of the season that was the feeling out period of getting a dysfunctional, early playoff exit team back on its feet. We consistently played hard and with intensity and always defended, and that's because Udoka held them accountable and was an actual leader and didn't just sit on his hands and expect the team to figure things out themselves.

Udoka's team ultimately had a lack of talent, particularly offensive talent, which is what killed us in most of our losses. In fact, looking back it's amazing that we were as successful as we were with as little pure talent as we had. We're significantly more talented and better off with this team (and even last year's team) at most every position (especially the starters) than in 2022.

2022 JT < 2024 JT
2022 JB < 2024 JB
2022 White < < 2024 White
2022 Smart = 2024 Jrue
2022 Rob < 2024 KP
2022 Al > 2024 Al
2022 Theis = 2024 Kornet
2022 GWill = 2024 Hauser
2022 PP < 2024 PP

It's not a coincidence that one team exceeded expectations and was a few minutes from taking a 3-1 lead in the Finals against a dynasty team, whereas the other team underachieved relative to expectations and went down 0-3 and ultimately lost to a much worse 8th seed team. I firmly believe we would've hung banner 18 last year if we still had Udoka, and we'd be much better off with him right now than Joe. There's a reason coaching is always mentioned when talking heads discuss potential weaknesses and doubts about the Celtics winning it all.

[tenn_smoothie]

Udoka was definitely the most effective of the three coaches.

His failing was a one-dimensional, stagnant offense. Not one-dimensional like Joe. But Ime did not have near enough off-ball movement, which resulted in players stuck on the perimeter with the shot-clock winding down and being forced to take a bad shot or drive into traffic. Resulted in all those turnovers. But that was far more fixable than an arrogant little coach who actually thinks he is good and says, quote, "I don't give a **** what other people think." Joe's contrived bravado just reveals to me the same insecurity he demonstrated last year.

Tonite vs the Lakers, the Celts shoot only 7 free-throws and have 48 3-point attempts.
Is that what you consider good basketball, Joe ?

[celticsclay]

Lakers shot over 50% from 3 and Reaves looked like Jordan.  Offense wasn't great, but the C's lost because of defense.

We normally score 120 and scored 107. We normally give up 111 and gave up 114. Was definitely also offense, especially against a team missing a first team all defensive caliber guy.

[Kernewek]

Tonite vs the Lakers, the Celts shoot only 7 free-throws and have 48 3-point attempts.
Is that what you consider good basketball, Joe ?

I asked in the game thread, but we did score more points in the paint than the Lakers despite shooting 19 fewer free throws - to me that would seem to be referee inconsistency (can't shoot free throws if you don't get the whistle, right?) but I didn't have the chance to watch the game, so I don't really know.

--

Not for nothing, but we did have a couple of pretty rough winter losses under Ime:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202202270IND.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202201280ATL.html

Ultimately they were two winter games, which rarely matter in the grand scheme of things. Especially because, as we all know and JP33 noted, that team was about to kick into a massive hot streak after a decidedly lukewarm start. But I am sure that Indiana game, in particular, got some run in the Fire Ime thread.

[angryguy77]

IDK how many saw the interaction between Joe and Washburn, but it says volumes.
The guy is just weird, and doesn't hold these guys accountable. He called them "kids"....


This 3 ball philosophy encourages these guys to be lazy and not work for shots. It's the shot that takes the least effort in the game and it just breeds laziness.

[Roy H.]

Some of those turnovers and defensive lapses were so bad that if these guys were a college team you'd swear they were throwing the game.

Outside of his one-note offensive system, I'm not sure how much I can blame Joe for this one individual game.  I guess you can argue that he didn't have the team prepared, but that's largely on the players.  They were going through the motions.  Joe sat some of the more lackadaisical players, but nobody outside of Hauser really showed up.

That said, the coach needs to teach accountability.  No more of his "I like it when we play bad" schtick. 

[tonydelk]

Some of those turnovers and defensive lapses were so bad that if these guys were a college team you'd swear they were throwing the game.

Outside of his one-note offensive system, I'm not sure how much I can blame Joe for this one individual game.  I guess you can argue that he didn't have the team prepared, but that's largely on the players.  They were going through the motions.  Joe sat some of the more lackadaisical players, but nobody outside of Hauser really showed up.

That said, the coach needs to teach accountability.  No more of his "I like it when we play bad" schtick.

This game was definitely on the players.  Uninspired play.  Thinking that just showing up can beat the lakers.  I'm glad they lost.  It shows them they are not good enough to sleepwalk through any game.  Also, they are going to get hammered in the media.  They will be called weak minded, no killer instinct etc.  They will no longer be considered the favorites.  Hopefully this drives the players to be better. 

[bdm860]

Some of those turnovers and defensive lapses were so bad that if these guys were a college team you'd swear they were throwing the game.

Outside of his one-note offensive system, I'm not sure how much I can blame Joe for this one individual game.  I guess you can argue that he didn't have the team prepared, but that's largely on the players.  They were going through the motions.  Joe sat some of the more lackadaisical players, but nobody outside of Hauser really showed up.

That said, the coach needs to teach accountability.  No more of his "I like it when we play bad" schtick.

I actually thought they were doing exactly what you wanted in the 4th when they were trying to make a run, as they went to Porzingis several times inside.  He went 4/4 from the paint in the 4th after only taking 3 shots in paint through the first 3 quarters.

Joe also changed things up by sitting Brown with 4 minutes to go (and hope still alive), and only played him 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

But they also took 48 threes (the most in the last ~15 or so games), so I guess he didn't change that much.

[mobilija]

Some of those turnovers and defensive lapses were so bad that if these guys were a college team you'd swear they were throwing the game.

Outside of his one-note offensive system, I'm not sure how much I can blame Joe for this one individual game.  I guess you can argue that he didn't have the team prepared, but that's largely on the players.  They were going through the motions.  Joe sat some of the more lackadaisical players, but nobody outside of Hauser really showed up.

That said, the coach needs to teach accountability.  No more of his "I like it when we play bad" schtick.

I actually thought they were doing exactly what you wanted in the 4th when they were trying to make a run, as they went to Porzingis several times inside.  He went 4/4 from the paint in the 4th after only taking 3 shots in paint through the first 3 quarters.

Joe also changed things up by sitting Brown with 4 minutes to go (and hope still alive), and only played him 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

But they also took 48 threes (the most in the last ~15 or so games), so I guess he didn't change that much.

Yeah, then they allowed transition lay-ups off made shots. Can’t get much worse defensively than that.

[SHAQATTACK]

Right now …..Kinda feeling like letting Joe Gooooooooooo.