Tired of tatum not showing up

[Goldstar88]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

They both had Finals appearances before turning 31.  The difference being Pierce winning a championship.  Pierce also had his team in the Finals again by 33.

Correction: Garnett won a championship and had his team in the Finals again two years later.
Pierce was very important, but Jimmy Butler never had anyone even close to what Garnett brought to Boston.

Joel Embiid is pretty good.

[Phantom255x]

It's true Tatum needs to show up a bit more in these situations more consistently, and obviously last year's Finals wasn't ideal for him.

But really? These Melo comparisons...

So are we suggesting that a bunch of these players that haven't won a ring (like George, Butler, Tatum, etc.) are all Melo 2.0? 

Because I don't see how you can argue Tatum is Melo 2.0 but act like he's the only one. By that logic, there's definitely an entire team's worth (or probably even 2 teams) of players in the league who can be looked at similarly. The ones who haven't won a ring.

[gouki88]

It should also be pointed out that Paul Pierce, at 33, had achieved considerably more than Jimmy Butler had at this comparative point in their relative NBA careers

Jimmy led his team to the NBA Finals.

They both had Finals appearances before turning 31.  The difference being Pierce winning a championship.  Pierce also had his team in the Finals again by 33.

Correction: Garnett won a championship and had his team in the Finals again two years later.
Pierce was very important, but Jimmy Butler never had anyone even close to what Garnett brought to Boston.

Joel Embiid is pretty good.

Yeah, I think having a top 5 player in the league is comparable to Garnett, who was similar.

[Kernewek]

I'm also confused, throughout the thread Tenn has been setting up Butler as a Garnett equivalent:

Tatum's shot not falling is becoming his playoff norm.

I've said for a long time that he doesn't have the competitiveness to lead a team in the playoffs.
Compare his mentality with Jimmy Butler.

Tatum wants to win, Butler NEEDS to win.

"I'm fairly agnostic on Tatum, but he's pretty clearly the best player we've drafted since Pierce, and it's hard to think of a player that's had this type of career by 25 who didn't wind up with a ring or two (barring injury)."

Pierce needed Garnett to grow up and be about winning titles more than just scoring a bunch of points.
Without Garnett, Pierce never wins anything.

Tatum will never be the guts and heart of this team - just not in him.
I don't blame him for that. He cannot change his basic nature.

Management needs to see this and bring in what we need to change the personality of this team.
We all thought Marcus Smart was that guy, but he is just too dumb of a player to be a Garnett-type leader.
Same could be said for Brown, though he is more talented than Smart.

Garnett needed to win like Bird did, like Cowens and Havlicek did, like Russell did (though no one could quite be his equal).

Yes, Jimmy Butler would do wonders for this team and we would win titles with him. He has never had the talent around him that these Celtics would provide. A few have labeled him a playoff failure, but he hasn't had enough help where he has been.

This Celtics team has been so frustrating and their failures very painful to watch, since the acquisition of Kyrie Irving til now.

So the position seems to be "Jimmy Butler would do for the Celtics what KG did for the Celtics" [i.e. come to Boston, change the culture, win a title as the team's best player]. This makes sense, so far so good.

But we're also saying that Jimmy Butler thus far has been more of a Paul Pierce-level talent? And so any Butler-lead team would need another KG to appear on top of that?

[gouki88]

I'm also confused, throughout the thread Tenn has been setting up Butler as a Garnett equivalent:

Tatum's shot not falling is becoming his playoff norm.

I've said for a long time that he doesn't have the competitiveness to lead a team in the playoffs.
Compare his mentality with Jimmy Butler.

Tatum wants to win, Butler NEEDS to win.

"I'm fairly agnostic on Tatum, but he's pretty clearly the best player we've drafted since Pierce, and it's hard to think of a player that's had this type of career by 25 who didn't wind up with a ring or two (barring injury)."

Pierce needed Garnett to grow up and be about winning titles more than just scoring a bunch of points.
Without Garnett, Pierce never wins anything.

Tatum will never be the guts and heart of this team - just not in him.
I don't blame him for that. He cannot change his basic nature.

Management needs to see this and bring in what we need to change the personality of this team.
We all thought Marcus Smart was that guy, but he is just too dumb of a player to be a Garnett-type leader.
Same could be said for Brown, though he is more talented than Smart.

Garnett needed to win like Bird did, like Cowens and Havlicek did, like Russell did (though no one could quite be his equal).

Yes, Jimmy Butler would do wonders for this team and we would win titles with him. He has never had the talent around him that these Celtics would provide. A few have labeled him a playoff failure, but he hasn't had enough help where he has been.

This Celtics team has been so frustrating and their failures very painful to watch, since the acquisition of Kyrie Irving til now.

So the position seems to be "Jimmy Butler would do for the Celtics what KG did for the Celtics" [i.e. come to Boston, change the culture, win a title as the team's best player]. This makes sense, so far so good.

But we're also saying that Jimmy Butler thus far has been more of a Paul Pierce-level talent? And so any Butler-lead team would need another KG to appear on top of that?

I admire your efforts here. Expect crickets.

I love that despite Butler's "need to win" it has led to less success than Tatum, despite being around for twice as long

[Big333223]

I was pretty upset with Tatum after game 5. The Hawks took control of that game when Tatum came back in in the 4th quarter. He never really looked engaged, sucked the energy out of the arena and fully contributed to the Celtics blowing that game.

Then he was masterful in game 6. And he has a relatively long resume of great playoff games for someone his age.

His entire run his rookie postseason in '18 was incredible given his experience and the situation that team was in. 28-15 to put away the Sixers and then 29-12-7 to put away the Raptors in '20 when he was only 21 years old. 50 points in the Celtics only win against the Nets in '21. 46 points to save the team from elimination against the Bucks in '22. And now 30-14-7 to put the Hawks away.

He was a more accomplished NBA player at 24 then Melo or Carter were in their entire careers.

[angryguy77]

Game wasn't all on Tatum. I really liked his first half, that's what we needed from him. However, there was a second half that couldn't used a bit more.

Was listening to Karalis and he mentioned a possession where Brown raced up the floor and no one else was running. Pointed out Tatum was one of the worst offenders. This filters down to the whole team and it sets the tone. He's becoming very hard to root for.

Last year, he was terrible at taking plays off to whine. He's improved on this from what I've noticed but I still see him not  getting up and hustling back down after a layup. Teams know they can just run it back because odds are it's going to be a 5-4 advantage. What good is your 2 points if you are not going to get back on d?

I'm running out of patience. Love his skills, but he has an attitude that's preventing him from taking the next step. I said this before but I'd bet he was given way more leeway growing up on teams due to him being so much better than everyone else.


I might be crucified here for saying this, but I kind of thing the dude is just lazy. A dumb as Smart can be, he never eases off, or not to the same extent. That's what we need for the leader of this team and we're not getting it.

[keevsnick]

To be 100% honest I hate talking about intangibles like clutchness, heart, fire, ect ect ect. I just don't find much value in those sorts of conversations.

The only thing that really annoys me about Tatum is when he initiates the offense and slows WAAAAAY down. It never works. Our best offense is a PG on ball, Tatum/Brown running off ball action to receive the ball on the move, followed by making the right play against a moving defense. Our worst offense is Tatum walking the ball up for 8 seconds, calling for a screen to get a switch onto a guard that takes another 6 seconds, isolating against that guard and dribbling another 6 seconds before throwing up a contested shot or tossing a live grenade with 4 left on the shot clock. So i would recommend not doing that.

Tatum needs to play like the best version of himself, not dollar tree kobe.

[ozgod]

Well he finally showed up 

[gouki88]

Well he finally showed up 

Only a record-breaking Game 7 against the MVP. No biggie.

His last 5 quarters have been absurd

[Donoghus]

Yeah, but Jimmy has that killer instinct that Tatum is missing.

[Kernewek]

Yeah, but Jimmy has that killer instinct that Tatum is missing.

What if the real twist is that Tatum is the KG to Butler's Pierce... in Miami?

[Roy H.]

I'll use the same words now that I used during the series for Tatum's performance:  odd, weird, "I don't get it".

The first half performances in Games 4, 5 and 6 were just odd.  I can't recall a superstar ever going three playoff games in a row without scoring in the first quarter, or having such bad halves consecutively.  He then went nuclear in five straight quarters. 

I noticed that last night his footwork was a lot better, and especially early he didn't settle for threes when he could attack the basket.  It was really phenomenal basketball.

[ozgod]

I'll use the same words now that I used during the series for Tatum's performance:  odd, weird, "I don't get it".

The first half performances in Games 4, 5 and 6 were just odd.  I can't recall a superstar ever going three playoff games in a row without scoring in the first quarter, or having such bad halves consecutively.  He then went nuclear in five straight quarters. 

I noticed that last night his footwork was a lot better, and especially early he didn't settle for threes when he could attack the basket.  It was really phenomenal basketball.

I think it's mental. Washburn had an article about Tatum in the Globe today where Tatum talked about how he was too tight before Game 7, too worried about doing well, feeling the pressure to score because of the gravity of the moment. After talking to his dad after Game 6, he tried to bring back memories of finding basketball fun, rather than feeling the pressure of expectation, and so he was able to play more freely.

Tatum understood his basketball reputation would soar or plummet from this one game, but he spent the past few days seeking normalcy.

“It was definitely on my mind that I had played as bad as it could get for 43 minutes,” Tatum said of Game 6. “Going into Game 6, I was too, it sounds crazy, but I was too locked in. I was too tight; too much in my own head thinking what do I need to do? How many points do I need to score? It’s a big moment. [Sunday] I was more myself. Pregame, I was relaxed, laughing, joking, and that’s when I play my best when I’m having fun. This is basketball. This is something I’ve been doing since I was a kid.

“Just not think about the pressure and what everybody is going to say. Just focus on the game.”

While he attended a handful of playoff road games, Justin decided to come to Boston for the first time as a means of support, win or lose.

“It was satisfying because I know how much pressure he puts on himself to want to get out of this series and win another chip for Boston,” Justin said. “For him not playing well in the previous games until today, it was just satisfying to see that ball go in the hole.”

Instead of being the umpteenth person to emphasize the importance of Game 7 and the impact on his son’s legacy, Justin said he texted his son on Saturday to talk about normal life stuff. He’s learned the perils of being the overbearing parent-coach. He trusted that his son would be prepared for his moment.

“I said, ‘I know you’re getting it from everywhere,’ ” Justin said he told Jayson. “I just want to have a normal conversation. Just keep having fun and we’ll talk about something else and then we’ll integrate to what [he needs] to do. It’s not like hearing the same rhetorical things from outsiders. [Jayson’s thinking] ‘I need to hear the voice that I’m used to and not talk about the same [expletive] that I’ve been hearing from everybody else.’ So I just use a different approach.”

Instead of pondering the pressure, Tatum said he reflected on his basketball roots, thinking about those days when he played the game all day for free, those times when a rail-thin, baby-faced Tatum worked feverishly on his moves, fantasizing of days like this.

”When you think about those days when you were a kid at the YMCA or whatever, the game kind of opens up,” he said. “Just try not to think about the pressure or what everybody is going to say. Just focus on the game.”

And finally, Tatum got caught up in the moment. When he drained a long 3-pointer during a 33-5 third-quarter run, Tatum embraced the raucous crowd, walked past the mid-court logo, pointed to the floor and said, “This is my [expletive].”

He overcame the pressure. He returned to his old self. He declared his love for the game, and for his franchise and the crowd.

“I’ve been here my whole career and I feel they embrace me as one of their own,” he said. “That means a lot. I love being here. I love getting to put on this uniform and I love to play big games and put on big performances in front of them.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/14/sports/father-knows-best-justin-tatum-took-his-own-approach-with-his-son-before-jayson-tatum-dominated-76ers-game-7/

If you think about it, at the top level the talent gap between elite athletes is pretty small...it's the ones that can cope with pressure and adversity and perform at their best under all that are the ones that are successful. Hopefully JT was able to find something to get himself to a mental state where he doesn't let the pressure overwhelm him for the rest of these playoffs.

[BringToughnessBack]

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kobe-bryant-worst-plus-minus-in-a-playoff-game

 Got to love the -35 playoff game Kobe once had with 20 percent shooting percentage.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1191352-2012-nba-playoffs-lebron-james-5-worst-playoff-chokejobs-of-all-time

Do I really need to remind you of his infamous collapse vs us a long time ago?


Kobe, Lebron, MJ and others have all gone through some horrid performances in playoff games. Nobody simply performs all the time at the highest level without having some slumps. You can never truly become legendary most of the time until you go through adversity as well. Many players go through it and never get through it. Tatum gets and got through it.

Lets let Tatum grow up and mature as he continues to amaze us. He is still a few years away from his prime as well and we are already on the brink of winning it all this year.

Tatum not showing up in some game in some quarters is no different than the other legends who played this game. All of them including Tatum got through it and became even better.

You will never hear from my mouth what can we get for Tatum because I want him in Green for life, yes even in his late 30's. We could literally be in 4-6 finals with him on our team for the next 13-15 years.