Tired of tatum not showing up

[kraidstar]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

[Kernewek]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

[Goldstar88]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

But the Celtics have more talented basketball players, so they should win every game.

[angryguy77]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

Because it consistently happens to us. When a 30 pt lead makes you less comfortable than a 10 pt lead, it's telling.

tatum won't be the first, nore last of a a guy who has the sky as a limit, but doesn't get there because of having a weak mind. How many games has he willed them to win? GM 6 against the bucks last year is the only one I can think of. I'm not saying theres not others, but its the only one that really stands out.

IMO, he doesn't belong on a 1st team all NBA at this point in time.

[Kernewek]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

Because it consistently happens to us. When a 30 pt lead makes you less comfortable than a 10 pt lead, it's telling.

tatum won't be the first, nore last of a a guy who has the sky as a limit, but doesn't get there because of having a weak mind. How many games has he willed them to win? GM 6 against the bucks last year is the only one I can think of. I'm not saying theres not others, but its the only one that really stands out.

IMO, he doesn't belong on a 1st team all NBA at this point in time.

I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating: watching the Celtics blow comfortable leads when playing against 'worse' teams is something that goes back to the end of the Big 3 era. It's hardly a new development for the team - and, in fact, it basically happens to every team in the NBA.

I'm fairly agnostic on Tatum, but he's pretty clearly the best player we've drafted since Pierce, and it's hard to think of a player that's had this type of career by 25 who didn't wind up with a ring or two (barring injury).

[celticinorlando]

I would like to see Tatum rise to the occasion like Booker has. JT has been a no show in the 4th quarter far to often this series.

[angryguy77]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

Because it consistently happens to us. When a 30 pt lead makes you less comfortable than a 10 pt lead, it's telling.

tatum won't be the first, nore last of a a guy who has the sky as a limit, but doesn't get there because of having a weak mind. How many games has he willed them to win? GM 6 against the bucks last year is the only one I can think of. I'm not saying theres not others, but its the only one that really stands out.

IMO, he doesn't belong on a 1st team all NBA at this point in time.

I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating: watching the Celtics blow comfortable leads when playing against 'worse' teams is something that goes back to the end of the Big 3 era. It's hardly a new development for the team - and, in fact, it basically happens to every team in the NBA.

I'm fairly agnostic on Tatum, but he's pretty clearly the best player we've drafted since Pierce, and it's hard to think of a player that's had this type of career by 25 who didn't wind up with a ring or two (barring injury).

Yes  teams blow leads, but this team has a crazy amount of youth and talent to not be like other teams. Saying it's just a thing doesn't absolve them of playing lazy and down to their opponent. You can talk about stats and accolades all they want, but what matters is what he does when his team needs him most.

I brought it up last night, we need Tatum to be more like Butler. Look at the way Butler plays vs Tatum. Butler goes and takes it, Tatum fills a stat sheet by default followed with a presser that always ends in "I got to play better."

[Indocelts]

Tatum is not an alpha male.He is super talented but very stubborn. He needs to have a strong coach to lit the fire under him when he is coasting.

Unfortunately, Joe is  not the type of coach who can discipline him (and Smart too). I just don't think the current Celtics team has a true leader.

[Csfan1984]

Tatum is still great. Just needs to rely less on that three when it isn't falling. There are games you can lose and games you can't, to keep chucking bad shots in  .

Did you tune in to the other close out games in the other series last night to see what “great” actually is?

Every player struggles at times. LeBron was called a choker. KD soft, Giannis passive in crunch time, Embiid always hurt or tired, Butler can't do it a whole series, etc..

All these players struggle. It's not a cake walk for any player.

I’m well aware of this and that no player is perfect.
Unlike you I also realize Tatum just isn’t a superstar..he’s an all star

If he is only an All-star shouldn't we be complaining less? 

[Kernewek]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

Because it consistently happens to us. When a 30 pt lead makes you less comfortable than a 10 pt lead, it's telling.

tatum won't be the first, nore last of a a guy who has the sky as a limit, but doesn't get there because of having a weak mind. How many games has he willed them to win? GM 6 against the bucks last year is the only one I can think of. I'm not saying theres not others, but its the only one that really stands out.

IMO, he doesn't belong on a 1st team all NBA at this point in time.

I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating: watching the Celtics blow comfortable leads when playing against 'worse' teams is something that goes back to the end of the Big 3 era. It's hardly a new development for the team - and, in fact, it basically happens to every team in the NBA.

I'm fairly agnostic on Tatum, but he's pretty clearly the best player we've drafted since Pierce, and it's hard to think of a player that's had this type of career by 25 who didn't wind up with a ring or two (barring injury).

Yes  teams blow leads, but this team has a crazy amount of youth and talent to not be like other teams. Saying it's just a thing doesn't absolve them of playing lazy and down to their opponent. You can talk about stats and accolades all they want, but what matters is what he does when his team needs him most.

I brought it up last night, we need Tatum to be more like Butler. Look at the way Butler plays vs Tatum. Butler goes and takes it, Tatum fills a stat sheet by default followed with a presser that always ends in "I got to play better."

I agree with you to some degree, but I think it's important to acknowledge that the actual difference between Butler and Tatum is essentially just aesthetics - Butler has the same kind of insane competitive streak that shades MJ and Kobe, but he's not actually done all that much in the league except be 'pretty good'. Tatum's already more or less Butler's equivalent and he's, what, eight years younger?

[86MaxwellSmart]

It's a simple fix....Have your Point Guard dribble the ball up the court--NOT TATUM

[angryguy77]

Tatum is still great. Just needs to rely less on that three when it isn't falling. There are games you can lose and games you can't, to keep chucking bad shots in  .

Did you tune in to the other close out games in the other series last night to see what “great” actually is?

Every player struggles at times. LeBron was called a choker. KD soft, Giannis passive in crunch time, Embiid always hurt or tired, Butler can't do it a whole series, etc..

All these players struggle. It's not a cake walk for any player.

I’m well aware of this and that no player is perfect.
Unlike you I also realize Tatum just isn’t a superstar..he’s an all star

If he is only an All-star shouldn't we be complaining less?

Not when he's going to be paid like a superstar. The team is build around him.
The frustrating thing is his performances are due to him mostly and that could be fixed if he decides to fix them.

[angryguy77]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

Because it consistently happens to us. When a 30 pt lead makes you less comfortable than a 10 pt lead, it's telling.

tatum won't be the first, nore last of a a guy who has the sky as a limit, but doesn't get there because of having a weak mind. How many games has he willed them to win? GM 6 against the bucks last year is the only one I can think of. I'm not saying theres not others, but its the only one that really stands out.

IMO, he doesn't belong on a 1st team all NBA at this point in time.

I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating: watching the Celtics blow comfortable leads when playing against 'worse' teams is something that goes back to the end of the Big 3 era. It's hardly a new development for the team - and, in fact, it basically happens to every team in the NBA.

I'm fairly agnostic on Tatum, but he's pretty clearly the best player we've drafted since Pierce, and it's hard to think of a player that's had this type of career by 25 who didn't wind up with a ring or two (barring injury).

Yes  teams blow leads, but this team has a crazy amount of youth and talent to not be like other teams. Saying it's just a thing doesn't absolve them of playing lazy and down to their opponent. You can talk about stats and accolades all they want, but what matters is what he does when his team needs him most.

I brought it up last night, we need Tatum to be more like Butler. Look at the way Butler plays vs Tatum. Butler goes and takes it, Tatum fills a stat sheet by default followed with a presser that always ends in "I got to play better."

I agree with you to some degree, but I think it's important to acknowledge that the actual difference between Butler and Tatum is essentially just aesthetics - Butler has the same kind of insane competitive streak that shades MJ and Kobe, but he's not actually done all that much in the league except be 'pretty good'. Tatum's already more or less Butler's equivalent and he's, what, eight years younger?

It's not aesthetics. Butler can command the floor and take over. Kawahi, Dame are examples of dudes how just turn it up a notch. Tatum steps back for 3, or complains to the ref after a drive.

He's wasting prime years and it's a shame.

[Roy H.]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

But the Celtics have more talented basketball players, so they should win every game.

They should win every game against inferior opponents in which they hold a big lead, at least.  Every single one.

[Kernewek]

Something else i want to get off my chest:

I think we intentionally let teams hang around after we've built a lead.

I think our guys do love to play, and they put up stats. So when we get a decent lead, the mindset is to conserve energy, take the foot off the pedal, then play hard again when the other team comes back.

Which is COMPLETELY BACKWARDS.

Why not just continue to play hard and push the gane out of reach, then rest while the bench finishes things off? Maybe because you can't accumulate stats sitting on the bench?

IMO Smart and Tatum are the ringleaders for this. Smart is great when the game is hanging in the balance. But he's awful when we're ahead. There have been so many games that should have been blowouts but stayed close due to sheer laziness.

Joe needs to start benching guys for complacency.

Honest question: how do we square this thinking with the reality that the other team is comprised of talented basketball players who are also trying to win the game?

Because it consistently happens to us. When a 30 pt lead makes you less comfortable than a 10 pt lead, it's telling.

tatum won't be the first, nore last of a a guy who has the sky as a limit, but doesn't get there because of having a weak mind. How many games has he willed them to win? GM 6 against the bucks last year is the only one I can think of. I'm not saying theres not others, but its the only one that really stands out.

IMO, he doesn't belong on a 1st team all NBA at this point in time.

I said this in another thread, but it bears repeating: watching the Celtics blow comfortable leads when playing against 'worse' teams is something that goes back to the end of the Big 3 era. It's hardly a new development for the team - and, in fact, it basically happens to every team in the NBA.

I'm fairly agnostic on Tatum, but he's pretty clearly the best player we've drafted since Pierce, and it's hard to think of a player that's had this type of career by 25 who didn't wind up with a ring or two (barring injury).

Yes  teams blow leads, but this team has a crazy amount of youth and talent to not be like other teams. Saying it's just a thing doesn't absolve them of playing lazy and down to their opponent. You can talk about stats and accolades all they want, but what matters is what he does when his team needs him most.

I brought it up last night, we need Tatum to be more like Butler. Look at the way Butler plays vs Tatum. Butler goes and takes it, Tatum fills a stat sheet by default followed with a presser that always ends in "I got to play better."

I agree with you to some degree, but I think it's important to acknowledge that the actual difference between Butler and Tatum is essentially just aesthetics - Butler has the same kind of insane competitive streak that shades MJ and Kobe, but he's not actually done all that much in the league except be 'pretty good'. Tatum's already more or less Butler's equivalent and he's, what, eight years younger?

It's not aesthetics. Butler can command the floor and take over. Kawahi, Dame are examples of dudes how just turn it up a notch. Tatum steps back for 3, or complains to the ref after a drive.

He's wasting prime years and it's a shame.

Again, not really disagreeing with you, but Jimmy Butler's career has essentially been a long succession of burnt bridges and first- and second- round exits (plus a bubble appearance in the Finals and one lone ECF appearance on top of that). He probably had the game of his life against Milwaukee, but overall he's just a fine basketball player? He looks like he plays hard, which is important for people, but he definitely hasn't had the success that Tatum has had as the best player on their respective teams.