Pivotal PBS Playoffs

[Ed Monix]

It's the moment of truth for President of Basketball Operations, Brad Stevens.

Every move he's made over the past two years will be on show for this playoff run.

IMO, Stevens' front office achievements, thus far have been overblown, given he's has the remanence of Danny Ainge's work to build upon.

• Smart, Brown, Tatum, Williams III, Williams, Prichard were all drafted by Ainge.
• Horford & Kornet were both (originally) signed by Ainge.
• All future Celtics 1st Round Draft picks were untouched by Ainge.

The Malcolm Brodgon trade was seen as a huge coup for Stevens, but all the decisions were made by Brodgon himself;

As Brogdon brought up earlier in training camp, the Pacers allowed him to pick his new home before trading him. In a recent interview with SiriusXM, Brogdon shared which teams he chose from.

“At the end of the day, we knew there was Boston, we knew Toronto, and we knew [Washington],” Brogdon said. “D.C. fell off after the draft since they were thinking about trading that 10th pick for me. Toronto and Boston popped up. We had a choice to pursue — there wasn’t an offer on the table yet from either of them but the Pacers came to me and said we could pursue either of them and which one would I rather pursue? I choose Boston.”

Another pivotal piece over the past two seasons has been Derrick White. Although the trade was conducted by Brad Stevens, it reeks of (Spurs assistants) Ime Udoka & Will Hardy.

Brad Stevens' management style has greatly differed from Ainge. Stevens has moved the Celtics away from the risk taking 'Trader Danny' and into a much more player friendly & conservative ideology.

I believe Stevens' legacy will be greatly mirrored in the upcoming playoff success of the Milwaukee Bucks. Stevens passed over the following Bucks players; Joe Ingles, Jae Crowder, Meyers Leonard & Goran Dragic. The Bucks have veteran head coach Mike Budenholzer, while Stevens has chosen the untested Joe Mazzulla over available veterans like Frank Vogel, Quin Snyder & Kenny Atkinson.

Fair or unfair, Stevens decisions will be put under the microscope for the upcoming playoffs.

[Goldstar88]

Giving Ime credit for the White trade and Brogdon credit for the Brogdon trade …Really? This thread is ridiculous. Brad has done a great job as GM.

[Kernewek]

IMO, Stevens' front office achievements, thus far have been overblown, given he's has the remanence of Danny Ainge's work to build upon

There's an argument to be made here, but I think a primary difference between Ainge and Stevens is Stevens' faith in trusting Smart as the team's full time point guard. The Kemba/Horford trade almost certainly doesn't happen under Ainge, and it's been a huge boon to the team, much as I loved Kemba.

As far as Brogdon, it takes two to tango - if the C's front office had no interest, it wouldn't matter that he wanted to come play in Boston.

[Roy H.]

I think multiple things can be true.  Yes, Danny built the foundation.  His fingers are all over the team.  But, it's not necessarily fair to say that Danny did it himself, and then at the same time discredit Brad's moves by attributing them to somebody else.

Brad executed the Horford trade.  He made the Derrick White trade.  He made the Brogdon trade.  Those are his trades, and he gets the credit when they work out, and blame if they don't.

A couple of other quibbles:

Stevens passed over the following Bucks players; Joe Ingles, Jae Crowder, Meyers Leonard & Goran Dragic.

I'll give you Leonard.  There's no real way of telling if we had a chance at Dragic or Crowder.  We seemingly chose Gallo over Ingles, which I still think is a good choice that simply didn't work out.

Stevens has moved the Celtics away from the risk taking 'Trader Danny' and into a much more player friendly & conservative ideology.

I'm not sure I agree that Brad is necessarily more conservative than Danny.  I think the difference is that for most of Danny's tenure, he was looking to acquire players worthy of building around.  He found them in the Js.  Now, Brad has a different task:  turning a championship core into a championship team.

[PAOBoston]

I think the big difference is that PBS realized you need an actual deep bench to have a real chance of winning. Ainge never really built a solid bench for CBS. PBS gave up assets to get White and Brogdon and those guys might be difference makers in the playoffs.

[Vermont Green]

I don't agree with this premise at all.  It is funny to me that when Danny Ainge was here, all you heard was how bad he was, how people wouldn't trade with him because he wanted to "win" every trade.  How he couldn't draft.  And so on.  And now the narrative is that it is Ainge who made all the smart moves and Stevens is just along for the ride.

You can nit pick any GM.  They are always going to be bad draft picks or missed draft picks.  Free agents that everyone is sure we could have gotten that we didn't.  Trades that we did or didn't do.  But Brad Stevens has been spot on.  His big moves have been Horford, White, Gallinari, and Brogdon.  Throw in Muscala who still might have some moments for us.  Plus add in a very good draft of Davison.  And Hauser (thanks Roy).  Stevens has been great.

And don't forget that a very difficult coaching situation was handled.  Something like that could have ruined many teams.  Of course we don't really know all that went on but we do know that the team stayed on track.  This did not cause a problem.  It was handled.

I don't think people stop and think just how bad it could be.  How well positioned this team is relative to most other teams.

The only move that I am worried about is MIL getting Crowder.  I am not sure there is anything that we could realistically have done but that is a nice pick up for MIL (it cost them I think 4 second round picks or something like that).  The reason we passed over Meyers Leonard & Goran Dragic is that we already had better alternatives.  Crowder might impact a series or a game, Leonard and Dragic, I am not worried about any more than MIL is worried about Mike Muscala or Payton Pritchard.

[Roy H.]

But Brad Stevens has been spot on.  His big moves have been Horford, White, Gallinari, and Brogdon.  Throw in Muscala who still might have some moments for us.  Plus add in a very good draft of Davison.  Stevens has been great.

Hauser, too.

And, to that pot, we add Ime and now Mazz. 

If we win a title, I'd give both Brad and Danny high marks for their parts in constructing it.

[Vermont Green]

But Brad Stevens has been spot on.  His big moves have been Horford, White, Gallinari, and Brogdon.  Throw in Muscala who still might have some moments for us.  Plus add in a very good draft of Davison.  Stevens has been great.

Hauser, too.

And, to that pot, we add Ime and now Mazz. 

If we win a title, I'd give both Brad and Danny high marks for their parts in constructing it.

Agree on Hauser.   I added him to my post.  An oversight on my part.

[Donoghus]

Fair or unfair, Stevens decisions will be put under the microscope for the upcoming playoffs.

I don't really think so.   It's left to the players and coaches at this point.  The pressure is on them to perform.  They lost the Finals last year and, for the most part have come back strong this season.  However, there is still some unfinished business there.

Stevens (and Ainge) bought the groceries and did a helluva job doing it.  If this team does come up short, I think it'll be due to player/coach shortcomings and it'd be hard for me to place the bulk of the blame on Stevens and the front office staff.

[jambr380]

If we win this year, I'd give Brad a lot more credit than I would have given him last year when he was basically just riding Danny's wave. Also, his only trade looked underwhelming with White stinking up the joint - luckily he is a LOT better now.

As for Horford, I was always of the understanding that the deal was basically agreed upon in the previous season and completed as soon as possible when the offseason began. Are we just pretending that is all Brad now? I am not saying Brad wasn't a part of the process (Brad likely knew he was going to be in his current position well before he actually took over), but it always seemed like a decision made by the organization, not just by Brad.

[aefgogreen]

IMO, Stevens' front office achievements, thus far have been overblown, given he's has the remanence of Danny Ainge's work to build upon

There's an argument to be made here, but I think a primary difference between Ainge and Stevens is Stevens' faith in trusting Smart as the team's full time point guard. The Kemba/Horford trade almost certainly doesn't happen under Ainge, and it's been a huge boon to the team, much as I loved Kemba.

As far as Brogdon, it takes two to tango - if the C's front office had no interest, it wouldn't matter that he wanted to come play in Boston.

And Stevens got Horford back.

[johnnygreen]

As much as I like Danny (and truly appreciate what he did for the Celtics), I'm not sure if we're in the same/similar position without Stevens. Danny would have never given up draft picks for Horford, Brongdon, or White. It's players like that, that are the difference between just being in the playoffs and actually being a title contender.

As for Crowder, what makes you think he wanted to come back to Boston. He sat out to not play for Phoenix. I think he still holds resentment against the fans for how he was treated in relation to Hayward.

[Roy H.]

As much as I like Danny (and truly appreciate what he did for the Celtics), I'm not sure if we're in the same/similar position without Stevens. Danny would have never given up draft picks for Horford, Brongdon, or White. It's players like that, that are the difference between just being in the playoffs and actually being a title contender.

As for Crowder, what makes you think he wanted to come back to Boston. He sat out to not play for Phoenix. I think he still holds resentment against the fans for how he was treated in relation to Hayward.

I doubt Danny does the White trade, because I think he would have thought he was overpaying.

I do think that Danny would have pulled the trigger on a Brogdon trade, and would have brought Horford back.  Wasn't it Danny that initiated those discussions?

[Vermont Green]

As much as I like Danny (and truly appreciate what he did for the Celtics), I'm not sure if we're in the same/similar position without Stevens. Danny would have never given up draft picks for Horford, Brongdon, or White. It's players like that, that are the difference between just being in the playoffs and actually being a title contender.

As for Crowder, what makes you think he wanted to come back to Boston. He sat out to not play for Phoenix. I think he still holds resentment against the fans for how he was treated in relation to Hayward.

I doubt Danny does the White trade, because I think he would have thought he was overpaying.

I do think that Danny would have pulled the trigger on a Brogdon trade, and would have brought Horford back.  Wasn't it Danny that initiated those discussions?

I think the only transaction that allows for Ainge speculation is the trade to bring Horford back.  It is very likely that this was in motion while Ainge was in charge and finalized by Stevens once the season was over.  I am sure Stevens could have nixed the deal if he wanted.  But he did the deal, so it is a Stevens' deal.

Other than that, I don't see the point in speculating as to whether or not Ainge would have traded for White or Brogdon or whoever.  Those are Stevens' deals period.  Maybe Ainge doesn't do the White deal, maybe he drives a harder bargain and gets White for a little less.  It is impossible to know and doesn't even matter.

If you want to still talk about Ainge, debate trading Gobert or Mitchell.  Debate the Westbrook trade.  There is plenty to debate with Ainge if you want to go there.  But Ainge didn't trade for White or Brogdon and Stevens did.

[Roy H.]

As much as I like Danny (and truly appreciate what he did for the Celtics), I'm not sure if we're in the same/similar position without Stevens. Danny would have never given up draft picks for Horford, Brongdon, or White. It's players like that, that are the difference between just being in the playoffs and actually being a title contender.

As for Crowder, what makes you think he wanted to come back to Boston. He sat out to not play for Phoenix. I think he still holds resentment against the fans for how he was treated in relation to Hayward.

I doubt Danny does the White trade, because I think he would have thought he was overpaying.

I do think that Danny would have pulled the trigger on a Brogdon trade, and would have brought Horford back.  Wasn't it Danny that initiated those discussions?

I think the only transaction that allows for Ainge speculation is the trade to bring Horford back.  It is very likely that this was in motion while Ainge was in charge and finalized by Stevens once the season was over.  I am sure Stevens could have nixed the deal if he wanted.  But he did the deal, so it is a Stevens' deal.

Other than that, I don't see the point in speculating as to whether or not Ainge would have traded for White or Brogdon or whoever.  Those are Stevens' deals period.  Maybe Ainge doesn't do the White deal, maybe he drives a harder bargain and gets White for a little less.  It is impossible to know and doesn't even matter.

If you want to still talk about Ainge, debate trading Gobert or Mitchell.  Debate the Westbrook trade.  There is plenty to debate with Ainge if you want to go there.  But Ainge didn't trade for White or Brogdon and Stevens did.

Eh.  People can propose and speculate about whatever "what ifs" and alternative histories they want.  Some will find them interesting, others won't.  My guess is that the lens that most Celtics fans on here view Danny through will be Celtics-oriented, rather than worrying too much about the Jazz, but that's why we've got subforums for Celtics and non-Celtics talk on here.