Celtics out of gas but still no 15th man!

[Roy H.]

Curious why Danny Green picked Cleveland over Boston?

But according to the man himself, per CLNS Media’s Bobby Manning, “it was the Celtics not communicating, not getting back to him.”

“They said they weren’t ready to make a move at that time,” he continued, raising more questions with that news than it answers.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-danny-green-says-did-100055281.html

So we had the chance to sign a 15th man who wouldn't complain about playing time, who could eat a few wing minutes, and who had championship experience.  The player seemingly wanted to sign here.  And instead we said, "nope, we're keeping that spot open for now".

Just cheaping out.

They signed Muscala. My guess is they didn’t want Green for a basketball reason we don’t know.

Well, they traded for Muscula.  His salary is less than the combined salaries of Vonleh and Jackson, so we've actually saved payroll since the beginning of the season.

A contender cutting payroll despite several TPEs and a DPE might be seen as cheap, particularly when the team has declined to fill the 15th spot.

Bobby Marks has it that the trade raised Boston’s lux tax bill by about $6.6M
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1623730487289171969?s=20

He's comparing just Jackson for Muscula.  He didn't take into account the cost savings of dumping Vonleh and not filling the spot.

[Phantom255x]

If true, that Danny Green report is telling. C's never planned on getting a 15th man it seems. I mean who were they hoping to get, Ross or Barton? Those guys signed rather quickly but we also haven't heard the C's had "serious interest", which is also what Green is saying that the C's didn't have interest.

Guys like Stanley Johnson are still out there. But the fact that they still are sort of tells me BOS isn't planning on signing him or anyone else now. Many other playoff teams have made some buyout move, including the Bucks and Nuggets who are arguably the other two best teams in the NBA

[liam]

If true, that Danny Green report is telling. C's never planned on getting a 15th man it seems. I mean who were they hoping to get, Ross or Barton? Those guys signed rather quickly but we also haven't heard the C's had "serious interest", which is also what Green is saying that the C's didn't have interest.

Guys like Stanley Johnson are still out there. But the fact that they still are sort of tells me BOS isn't planning on signing him or anyone else now. Many other playoff teams have made some buyout move, including the Bucks and Nuggets who are arguably the other two best teams in the NBA

Yeah, Stanley Johnson would be a good fit on a two year second year not guaranteed contract. I have no idea why the Celtics are sitting on their hands with all our injuries. I hope Celtics management has something up their sleeves besides their arms. 

[liam]

SO:

Pritchard is hurt

Grant is hurt

TIMELORD is hurt

Jaylen is hurt

Muscala is hurt

Al is old

Brogdon is slumping/hurt

Smart is nursing his leg


But still no "15th" man.

[Celtics2021]

If true, that Danny Green report is telling. C's never planned on getting a 15th man it seems. I mean who were they hoping to get, Ross or Barton? Those guys signed rather quickly but we also haven't heard the C's had "serious interest", which is also what Green is saying that the C's didn't have interest.

Guys like Stanley Johnson are still out there. But the fact that they still are sort of tells me BOS isn't planning on signing him or anyone else now. Many other playoff teams have made some buyout move, including the Bucks and Nuggets who are arguably the other two best teams in the NBA

Barton didn’t sign quickly.  He wasn’t even bought out by the time Green went to Cleveland, and then he took a few days to choose Toronto.

[Vermont Green]

People seem to have the impression that other teams are making great moves and we are being cheap.  I decided to take a look a MIL vs. BOS

Holiday                 Smart
Allen                     Brown
Middleton              Tatum
Giannis                 Horford
Lopez                   RWilliams

Carter                  White
Connaughton        Brogdon
Ingles                   Hauser
Crowder               GWilliams
Portis                   Griffin

Dragic                  Pritchard
Leonard               Muscala
                           Kornet


Beyond the top 10, they have Leonard as a 3rd string big, we have Kornet and Muscala.  They have Dragic and we have Pritchard.  They have 14 on the roster but some of them are really pretty useless we have 13 (actually 14 if you count Gallinari) but all 13 can play some role.  Pritchard, Muscala, and Kornet are better than Dragic, Leonard, and who ever else you want to consider from their deep bench.  Same for our 6-10 compared to their 6-10, our group is better.

The only meaningful acquisition they made was Crowder, and that was a big one.  He will really help their 6-10 group.  I am not sure we had any chance to get him.  He has a chance to make a difference in a series against us.  I don't think Leonard or Dragic will have any impact at all.  Overall, I still feel we have more depth, a stronger bench.  The problem is our starters are not playing well enough right now.  The problem is not the depth.

[Roy H.]

People seem to have the impression that other teams are making great moves and we are being cheap.  I decided to take a look a MIL vs. BOS

Holiday                 Smart
Allen                     Brown
Middleton              Tatum
Giannis                 Horford
Lopez                   RWilliams

Carter                  White
Connaughton        Brogdon
Ingles                   Hauser
Crowder               GWilliams
Portis                   Griffin

Dragic                  Pritchard
Leonard               Muscala
                           Kornet


Beyond the top 10, they have Leonard as a 3rd string big, we have Kornet and Muscala.  They have Dragic and we have Pritchard.  They have 14 on the roster but some of them are really pretty useless we have 13 (actually 14 if you count Gallinari) but all 13 can play some role.  Pritchard, Muscala, and Kornet are better than Dragic, Leonard, and who ever else you want to consider from their deep bench.  Same for our 6-10 compared to their 6-10, our group is better.

The only meaningful acquisition they made was Crowder, and that was a big one.  He will really help their 6-10 group.  I am not sure we had any chance to get him.  He has a chance to make a difference in a series against us.  I don't think Leonard or Dragic will have any impact at all.  Overall, I still feel we have more depth, a stronger bench.  The problem is our starters are not playing well enough right now.  The problem is not the depth.

They've got Matthews, Beauchamp, and Thanasis, right?  In other words, they've filled out their roster.

[Moranis]

People seem to have the impression that other teams are making great moves and we are being cheap.  I decided to take a look a MIL vs. BOS

Holiday                 Smart
Allen                     Brown
Middleton              Tatum
Giannis                 Horford
Lopez                   RWilliams

Carter                  White
Connaughton        Brogdon
Ingles                   Hauser
Crowder               GWilliams
Portis                   Griffin

Dragic                  Pritchard
Leonard               Muscala
                           Kornet


Beyond the top 10, they have Leonard as a 3rd string big, we have Kornet and Muscala.  They have Dragic and we have Pritchard.  They have 14 on the roster but some of them are really pretty useless we have 13 (actually 14 if you count Gallinari) but all 13 can play some role.  Pritchard, Muscala, and Kornet are better than Dragic, Leonard, and who ever else you want to consider from their deep bench.  Same for our 6-10 compared to their 6-10, our group is better.

The only meaningful acquisition they made was Crowder, and that was a big one.  He will really help their 6-10 group.  I am not sure we had any chance to get him.  He has a chance to make a difference in a series against us.  I don't think Leonard or Dragic will have any impact at all.  Overall, I still feel we have more depth, a stronger bench.  The problem is our starters are not playing well enough right now.  The problem is not the depth.

The Bucks have 15 under contract.  You don't have Beauchamp who has started 9 games this year, playing 14 mpg in 41 games overall.  He is a rookie, but was a 1st round pick so has some talent.  Matthews is also on the roster though is currently injured and of course Thanasis who has been on the roster now into his 4th season.  One of their 2-way guys (AJ Green) is shooting 43.3% from 3 on 3 attempts a game (in 30 games at 9.7 mpg).  Basically, can't do anything else, but having a shooter like that on the bench is useful. 

That Green point is something I've taken issue with with Boston.  Boston doesn't have any specialists on the deeper bench.  You need a guy that can come in cold and make 3 pointers (Green is also money from the line, just 4 for 4 in the pros, but as a 3+ year player in college he shot 90% from the line).  He doesn't need consistent minutes or to be in the flow of the game to bomb away and hit them.  Boston doesn't have that player on its deeper bench.   

[liam]

How much cash per game do the Celtics save by not signing a 15th man?

[Roy H.]

How much cash per game do the Celtics save by not signing a 15th man?

It varies based upon the player's experience and whether they add a second year option.   It's right around $10k per day, plus $42,500 in tax for a 10+ year veteran, signed to a two-year deal.  So, roughly $52,500 per day.

[liam]

It’s not like we’re playing Blake Griffin anyways, nor Kornet and Pritchard for more than a minute or two.  The 15th man wouldn’t play, which is why no one of any quality would have signed.

I feel like that's really the reason. Can we find someone who is a) better than Blake, Luke or Payton; b) will fit in with the rest of the players better and not affect on court chemistry; c) be willing to sit the pine for long stretches only to come in during injury; and d) be willing to do all this on the cheap. Blake is willing to do it, as is Luke - we've already heard reports that Payton isn't happy and would rather find more time elsewhere. Not making excuses for Brad, but it's not easy to find these types of players.

Oh and e) can quickly gain the trust of the coach and players that he can be relied upon, so close to the end of the season. If you look at Ime last year, he had a small circle of trust in terms of the players he used, he played a playoff rotation all the way through the playoffs. Joe has been willing to play more guys overall but as the season comes to an end he's shrank his rotation down to the people that he thinks will be able to deliver for him in the playoffs, in an effort to improve the chemistry and combinations so that the guys who are there don't have to think about what their teammates are doing, they just know what they are going to do, where they will be, etc.

I do agree they could bring someone on on a 10 day if it got to the point where we really needed someone, but what happens if that guy plays and is a disaster like Vonleh or Justin Jackson? It's a double edged sword - another player would help us (and would be exciting to the fans) but how to find the right player when the ones we already have aren't being used as much as they could be?

We basically played 6 guys in a double overtime game on the first night of a back to back down the stretch run of the season. I think we can find someone who can at least take some time off the starters in a double overtime back to-back game. I've already suggested Stanley Johnson and Juan Toscano-Anderson as guys who can play. Tatum 49 minutes and Brown 47 minutes and AL 46 minutes. Who knows who will play tonight?

Toscano-Anderson was never released by the Jazz after his trade there (he played last night even) so you really need to stop mentioning him as an option.

But look, they played a lineup with Jaylen and Tatum at the 2 and 3 most of last night.  Hauser exists, and gets a few minutes a night.  Pritchard rarely plays.  There are options on this team if Mazzulla is concerned about workload down the stretch, but he is clearly not.  I wanted Barton, because I thought he was the only buyout guy who stood a chance of getting some real minutes, because he might have been above the Hauser line.  Stanley Johnson is below the Grant/Muscala/Hauser line, so he’s not playing.

And Mazzulla has said why he’s not concerned about workload.  He thought that the team had reduced minutes too much down the stretch leading into the playoffs last year, and wants them playing more in March this year.  Whether that’s the correct strategy or not, we’ll find out in May and June, but the 15th man wouldn’t play, and we know this because better players on this team already don’t play.

Then use the 15th man as a practice body, or add a veteran voice to the locker room, or a young guy from Maine that we get a look at more closely.  Not signing anybody is just cheap.

For instance, could we have added a guy like this?

The Washington Wizards are signing Sydney Kings forward Xavier Cooks -- MVP of the National Basketball League in Australia -- to a deal through the 2023-24 season, Daniel Moldovan of Octagon Sports, his agent, told ESPN on Sunday.

Cooks, who'll join the Wizards as soon as the Kings complete play in the NBL Finals this week, comes to the NBA on a contract buyout and becomes the fifth player in five years to make the leap from that organization to the NBA.

Cooks, a 6-foot-8 power forward, is regarded as a switching, versatile defender with excellent passing skills. An Australian who went undrafted after an outstanding college career at Winthrop, Cooks, 27, is considered one of the NBL's and Kings' outstanding development stories. In his fourth season there, he was the Finals MVP in 2021-22 and the league's MVP in 2022-23.

I don't know what the contract terms are, but if it's a minimum deal, why not?  And if not Cooks, isn't there a similar player in the world, somewhere?  It just seems unlikely to me that there isn't one single available player that could add any benefit at all to the Celtics.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have a 15th guy.  I’m saying that the 15th guy would have zero impact on this team’s play in the past week or in the next month, and has zero bearing on whether or not the team is out of gas.

I’m in favor of signing Tony Snell, but if we sign him or anybody else today vs. three weeks from now it won’t have an impact.

Signing no one will have no impact.

[mobilija]

How much cash per game do the Celtics save by not signing a 15th man?

It varies based upon the player's experience and whether they add a second year option.   It's right around $10k per day, plus $42,500 in tax for a 10+ year veteran, signed to a two-year deal.  So, roughly $52,500 per day.

Thats nuts.

1 day of not having a 15th basketball player and they can afford to hire 2 more concession stand workers for the year or 1 more ball boy for the year.

[liam]

How much cash per game do the Celtics save by not signing a 15th man?

It varies based upon the player's experience and whether they add a second year option.   It's right around $10k per day, plus $42,500 in tax for a 10+ year veteran, signed to a two-year deal.  So, roughly $52,500 per day.

Thats nuts.

1 day of not having a 15th basketball player and they can afford to hire 2 more concession stand workers for the year or 1 more ball boy for the year.

2 concession guys and a ball boy would add to winning.

[liam]

I'm so glad that Wic could cheap out like he always seems to do.

[liam]

With so many injuries not filling that last roster spot seems like gross mismanagement.