Celtics Big (PF/C) Rotation

[Vermont Green]

What is going on with the rotation for PF and C.  The starters are clear enough; Horford and RWill, but after that, things are not clear to me:

   1.   Grant was the 3rd big all season, playing starter minutes, but now doesn't even play.
   2.   Blake Griffin starts and plays big minutes when Horford can't play, but then doesn't play at all when Horford does play.
   3.   Kornet seemed to be the primary center back up to Rob at the start but now doesn't play much.
   4.   Muscala is the new guy, looked decent for a game or so, but now looks like a very limited player, not to be seen in the playoffs.

My Questions:

   1.   Is Grant in the rotation or not?  Is he being rested or benched?  I wonder if the coach is trying to teach him not to whine to the refs so much.

   2.   If Griffin is good enough to start and play big minutes with decent production when Horford is out, why isn't he used when Horford starts but is being rested?  Are they saving Griffin for the playoffs?  Are they going to use him at that point?

To me, Grant and Griffin are better than Kornet and Muscala (at least based on what I have seen so far from Muscala).  I hope this is just regular season juggling to try and get everyone or keep everyone ready for the playoffs, which is fine.  But wouldn't there be value in settling in on a rotation fairly soon?

[Who]

They need Grant's D. He gives them that three headed defensive monster with Horford and Timelord. That is the team's defensive backline. They need them.

[celts55]

My guess is that like when Hauser was in a slump, he got sat for a few games. He then came back playing much better.
Grant has not been playing well, so he sits for a game or two.

[bdm860]

   1.   Is Grant in the rotation or not?  Is he being rested or benched?  I wonder if the coach is trying to teach him not to whine to the refs so much.

To be fair, it's been one game, so it's impossible to draw any conclusion about his rotation status. 

The official word from Mazzulla is that it was due to matchups.  But Mazzulla doesn't seem like the most forthcoming coach, so who knows if that's legit or not.  We'll have to see how many minutes Grant plays the next few games to really know.

[Vermont Green]

   1.   Is Grant in the rotation or not?  Is he being rested or benched?  I wonder if the coach is trying to teach him not to whine to the refs so much.

To be fair, it's been one game, so it's impossible to draw any conclusion about his rotation status. 

The official word from Mazzulla is that it was due to matchups.  But Mazzulla doesn't seem like the most forthcoming coach, so who knows if that's legit or not.  We'll have to see how many minutes Grant plays the next few games to really know.

It has not been just one game.  He was playing starter minutes the whole season up to the 14 Feb game where he played 48 min in an overtime game vs. MIL.  After that his minutes dropped including 6 min vs. Indy and 0 min vs. CLE.  It is true that it has not been all that many games and only one game that he didn't play at all, but it has been about 2 weeks or so.  Pretty much since the all star break.

[Vermont Green]

My guess is that like when Hauser was in a slump, he got sat for a few games. He then came back playing much better.
Grant has not been playing well, so he sits for a game or two.

I like this theory.  I will also add that Grant seemed to be complaining to the refs more and more.  Maybe the coach felt a little reboot would be good for him.  Like you said, it seemed to work for Hauser.

[footey]

What is going on with the rotation for PF and C.  The starters are clear enough; Horford and RWill, but after that, things are not clear to me:

   1.   Grant was the 3rd big all season, playing starter minutes, but now doesn't even play.
   2.   Blake Griffin starts and plays big minutes when Horford can't play, but then doesn't play at all when Horford does play.
   3.   Kornet seemed to be the primary center back up to Rob at the start but now doesn't play much.
   4.   Muscala is the new guy, looked decent for a game or so, but now looks like a very limited player, not to be seen in the playoffs.

My Questions:

   1.   Is Grant in the rotation or not?  Is he being rested or benched?  I wonder if the coach is trying to teach him not to whine to the refs so much.

   2.   If Griffin is good enough to start and play big minutes with decent production when Horford is out, why isn't he used when Horford starts but is being rested?  Are they saving Griffin for the playoffs?  Are they going to use him at that point?

To me, Grant and Griffin are better than Kornet and Muscala (at least based on what I have seen so far from Muscala).  I hope this is just regular season juggling to try and get everyone or keep everyone ready for the playoffs, which is fine.  But wouldn't there be value in settling in on a rotation fairly soon?

I think Joe is experimenting to see what works and  what doesn't.   I think he will fall back to use Grant a lot in the playoffs given his experience. There is also the possibility he will discard the 2 big lineup if it struggles.

[jpotter33]

   1.   Is Grant in the rotation or not?  Is he being rested or benched?  I wonder if the coach is trying to teach him not to whine to the refs so much.

To be fair, it's been one game, so it's impossible to draw any conclusion about his rotation status. 

The official word from Mazzulla is that it was due to matchups.  But Mazzulla doesn't seem like the most forthcoming coach, so who knows if that's legit or not.  We'll have to see how many minutes Grant plays the next few games to really know.

It has not been just one game.  He was playing starter minutes the whole season up to the 14 Feb game where he played 48 min in an overtime game vs. MIL.  After that his minutes dropped including 6 min vs. Indy and 0 min vs. CLE.  It is true that it has not been all that many games and only one game that he didn't play at all, but it has been about 2 weeks or so.  Pretty much since the all star break.

A few things:

1) I think Timelord being fully back cuts into GWill’s early season minutes some. He played alot early due to limited playing time we had available from our bigs.

2) I think they see Musky as much more flexible as a big than GWill, who can’t truly play the 5 except in super small lineups. Musky can play with any of our other bigs, and he’s generally a more reliable shooter (barring the last two nights).

3) I do think matchup has a lot  to do with it. Musky’s size makes him a better rebounder than GWill, who is pretty putrid on the boards for a big. I can see why that’s worrisome against big, rebounding teams like NYK and Cleveland.

That said, against Cleveland GWill is a much better option of being switched into their guards than Musky. So I do think it’s a balancing act.

[W8ting2McHale]

Didn’t Grant mention that he’s been playing with an injured arm an can’t straighten it? He’s been playing through it, but if his minutes can be covered by someone else now that Timelord is back and Muscala is on the team, that would seem like a smart decision.

Grant plays an important role, but he needs to heal up to be affective. You can’t rebound or shoot reliably when you can’t fully extend your arm and Grant’s shooting hasn’t been reliable lately.

Having that regular season depth so the Celtics are healthy for the playoffs is the key reason Muscala was brought in. Sure, matchups might dictate he gets some playoff minutes, but I’m not expecting him to contribute much outside of the regular season.

[Goldstar88]

Didn’t Grant mention that he’s been playing with an injured arm an can’t straighten it? He’s been playing through it, but if his minutes can be covered by someone else now that Timelord is back and Muscala is on the team, that would seem like a smart decision.

Grant plays an important role, but he needs to heal up to be affective. You can’t rebound or shoot reliably when you can’t fully extend your arm and Grant’s shooting hasn’t been reliable lately.

Having that regular season depth so the Celtics are healthy for the playoffs is the key reason Muscala was brought in. Sure, matchups might dictate he gets some playoff minutes, but I’m not expecting him to contribute much outside of the regular season.

I don’t recall seeing him on the injury report at any point this season. Muscala was on it last night, but he ended up playing. Only other player listed was Gallinari.

[bdm860]

   1.   Is Grant in the rotation or not?  Is he being rested or benched?  I wonder if the coach is trying to teach him not to whine to the refs so much.

To be fair, it's been one game, so it's impossible to draw any conclusion about his rotation status. 

The official word from Mazzulla is that it was due to matchups.  But Mazzulla doesn't seem like the most forthcoming coach, so who knows if that's legit or not.  We'll have to see how many minutes Grant plays the next few games to really know.

It has not been just one game.  He was playing starter minutes the whole season up to the 14 Feb game where he played 48 min in an overtime game vs. MIL.  After that his minutes dropped including 6 min vs. Indy and 0 min vs. CLE.  It is true that it has not been all that many games and only one game that he didn't play at all, but it has been about 2 weeks or so.  Pretty much since the all star break.

So you think he's out of the rotation because he played 16 minutes against New York or because he played 29 against Philly in the 2 previous games?

Sure, he was playing starter minutes earlier in the season, but that's because one of Al or Rob was usually out.  When both those guys are able to play, Grant's minutes drop to about 22mpg.  (I would imagine having all of Smart, White, Brogdon, Brown, Tatum available too, allows Boston the ability to play a smaller lineup as well, which also probably cuts into Grant's minutes).

When they played Indiana the first time, during his starter minutes phase, on 12/21, he only played <16 minutes.  So the 6 he played last week, while a drop, isn't that much out of whack either from the previous time they played.

I'm sticking with it being only 1 game, hard to tell.

[Csfan1984]

I think Grant has to take a step back in short term to get Musky going. DNPs are better than 6min games. Get healthy with the extra rest. Just hit the gyms for shooting and conditioning more. Feel every player including the Jays need to be thinking about more DNPs and more health maintenance.

[Vermont Green]

   1.   Is Grant in the rotation or not?  Is he being rested or benched?  I wonder if the coach is trying to teach him not to whine to the refs so much.

To be fair, it's been one game, so it's impossible to draw any conclusion about his rotation status. 

The official word from Mazzulla is that it was due to matchups.  But Mazzulla doesn't seem like the most forthcoming coach, so who knows if that's legit or not.  We'll have to see how many minutes Grant plays the next few games to really know.

It has not been just one game.  He was playing starter minutes the whole season up to the 14 Feb game where he played 48 min in an overtime game vs. MIL.  After that his minutes dropped including 6 min vs. Indy and 0 min vs. CLE.  It is true that it has not been all that many games and only one game that he didn't play at all, but it has been about 2 weeks or so.  Pretty much since the all star break.

So you think he's out of the rotation because he played 16 minutes against New York or because he played 29 against Philly in the 2 previous games?

Sure, he was playing starter minutes earlier in the season, but that's because one of Al or Rob was usually out.  When both those guys are able to play, Grant's minutes drop to about 22mpg.  (I would imagine having all of Smart, White, Brogdon, Brown, Tatum available too, allows Boston the ability to play a smaller lineup as well, which also probably cuts into Grant's minutes).

When they played Indiana the first time, during his starter minutes phase, on 12/21, he only played <16 minutes.  So the 6 he played last week, while a drop, isn't that much out of whack either from the previous time they played.

I'm sticking with it being only 1 game, hard to tell.

I am not sure if he is out of the rotation or not, he certainly was last night, but my point is that he role has been diminishing.  He had averaged a little over 27 min per game until recently, so even his one recent big game of 29 minutes, is only about average for the balance of the season.  This is a quote from Boston.com:

It’s not time to panic over Williams’s minutes yet, but this stretch of limited playing time including Mazzulla’s decision not to play him Wednesday night have been noticeable.

Referred to as a "stretch of limited playing time".   Not one game, but a stretch.  The difference may not be that important.  The big question in my mind is if this is just a sort of reset, is there some injury, or is this just a period of experimenting with different line ups.  Grant was a terrific bench big most of the year.  He started to kind of tail off the last several weeks.  I think having him play an effective 20 min or so in the playoffs is important.

[bdm860]

   1.   Is Grant in the rotation or not?  Is he being rested or benched?  I wonder if the coach is trying to teach him not to whine to the refs so much.

To be fair, it's been one game, so it's impossible to draw any conclusion about his rotation status. 

The official word from Mazzulla is that it was due to matchups.  But Mazzulla doesn't seem like the most forthcoming coach, so who knows if that's legit or not.  We'll have to see how many minutes Grant plays the next few games to really know.

It has not been just one game.  He was playing starter minutes the whole season up to the 14 Feb game where he played 48 min in an overtime game vs. MIL.  After that his minutes dropped including 6 min vs. Indy and 0 min vs. CLE.  It is true that it has not been all that many games and only one game that he didn't play at all, but it has been about 2 weeks or so.  Pretty much since the all star break.

So you think he's out of the rotation because he played 16 minutes against New York or because he played 29 against Philly in the 2 previous games?

Sure, he was playing starter minutes earlier in the season, but that's because one of Al or Rob was usually out.  When both those guys are able to play, Grant's minutes drop to about 22mpg.  (I would imagine having all of Smart, White, Brogdon, Brown, Tatum available too, allows Boston the ability to play a smaller lineup as well, which also probably cuts into Grant's minutes).

When they played Indiana the first time, during his starter minutes phase, on 12/21, he only played <16 minutes.  So the 6 he played last week, while a drop, isn't that much out of whack either from the previous time they played.

I'm sticking with it being only 1 game, hard to tell.

I am not sure if he is out of the rotation or not, he certainly was last night, but my point is that he role has been diminishing.  He had averaged a little over 27 min per game until recently, so even his one recent big game of 29 minutes, is only about average for the balance of the season.  This is a quote from Boston.com:

It’s not time to panic over Williams’s minutes yet, but this stretch of limited playing time including Mazzulla’s decision not to play him Wednesday night have been noticeable.

Referred to as a "stretch of limited playing time".   Not one game, but a stretch.  The difference may not be that important.  The big question in my mind is if this is just a sort of reset, is there some injury, or is this just a period of experimenting with different line ups.  Grant was a terrific bench big most of the year.  He started to kind of tail off the last several weeks.  I think having him play an effective 20 min or so in the playoffs is important.

Can you address this point?

Sure, he was playing starter minutes earlier in the season, but that's because one of Al or Rob was usually out.  When both those guys are able to play, Grant's minutes drop to about 22mpg.  (I would imagine having all of Smart, White, Brogdon, Brown, Tatum available too, allows Boston the ability to play a smaller lineup as well, which also probably cuts into Grant's minutes).

And to add to this, when all of Tatum, Brown, Smart, Horford, Time Lord, Brogdon, and White are playing, Grant's mpg drops to 21:14 (not including last night's DNP-CD).