Coach Jaylen

[Roy H.]

I find this stuff to be really interesting, in a team dynamics sort of way:

While Jayson Tatum stayed home from the Celtics’ trip to Milwaukee before the all-star break, he watched from the television angle and congratulated the team in the group chat for their efforts. He also joked about his main takeaway from afar — the team shoots a ton of threes.

Jaylen Brown saw the same theme play out while missing Monday night’s loss to the Knicks for personal reasons. The Celtics passed side-to-side, settled and despite head coach Joe Mazzulla’s pre-game appeal to shoot more threes confidently in games where they lose, Brown brought Boston’s attention toward the rim in a 117-113 win over the Cavaliers. The Celtics attempted 32 threes, well below their season average, hitting 50% while shooting 21-for-38 (55.3%) in the paint, 12 makes coming from Brown and Tatum.

“I think we started off the game shooting way too many threes,” Brown told CLNS Media on Wednesday. “I know that’s part of how the game goes, but when you’re not making them, getting to the basket, getting some shots that we know we can hit can open things up. Even tonight, we didn’t start off the game shooting the ball fantastic, but being able to score in transition, being able to get some open shots and creating for others just opens the game up a little bit for everybody. Watching that (Knicks) game was tough.

“You’ve got to get those paint touches first,” Brown said. “Usually I’m that guy. Usually I’m the one creating the paint threat, usually I’m the one trying to sink the defense in a little bit and create that pressure for us to get open threes. I think there’s a difference between swinging it around the perimeter a little bit and not really having a physical presence in the paint.”

Boston improved to 31-4 when shooting above the league average of 36% from deep. They previously took the same amount of three-pointers when they won as when they lost, with their efficiency keying the difference. Monday’s loss dropped the team to 14-14 on worse shooting nights. Mazzulla typically avoids discussing alternative outlets for offense publicly.

Some of that stems from not wanting to discourage a confident offensive approach from his group, especially when piling up quality attempts and hitting them at their expected rate provides the most straightforward path to victory. The Knicks game showed how relying solely on threes could cost the Celtics across a smaller sample size in the playoffs.

Mazzulla highlighted a weak spot in New York’s defense above the break, anticipated they would not shoot well against the Knicks’ rim protection and embarked on the team’s worst three-point shooting night all season — 21.4%.

https://www.clnsmedia.com/jaylen-brown-stresses-fewer-threes-as-celtics-beat-cavaliers/

I love that JB is taking charge there and is pushing for a different style of play.  The real question is, is Mazz going to push back on that?  Or, on nights where we're shooting poorly, can Mazz make adjustments?

[slamtheking]

I find this stuff to be really interesting, in a team dynamics sort of way:

While Jayson Tatum stayed home from the Celtics’ trip to Milwaukee before the all-star break, he watched from the television angle and congratulated the team in the group chat for their efforts. He also joked about his main takeaway from afar — the team shoots a ton of threes.

Jaylen Brown saw the same theme play out while missing Monday night’s loss to the Knicks for personal reasons. The Celtics passed side-to-side, settled and despite head coach Joe Mazzulla’s pre-game appeal to shoot more threes confidently in games where they lose, Brown brought Boston’s attention toward the rim in a 117-113 win over the Cavaliers. The Celtics attempted 32 threes, well below their season average, hitting 50% while shooting 21-for-38 (55.3%) in the paint, 12 makes coming from Brown and Tatum.

“I think we started off the game shooting way too many threes,” Brown told CLNS Media on Wednesday. “I know that’s part of how the game goes, but when you’re not making them, getting to the basket, getting some shots that we know we can hit can open things up. Even tonight, we didn’t start off the game shooting the ball fantastic, but being able to score in transition, being able to get some open shots and creating for others just opens the game up a little bit for everybody. Watching that (Knicks) game was tough.

“You’ve got to get those paint touches first,” Brown said. “Usually I’m that guy. Usually I’m the one creating the paint threat, usually I’m the one trying to sink the defense in a little bit and create that pressure for us to get open threes. I think there’s a difference between swinging it around the perimeter a little bit and not really having a physical presence in the paint.”

Boston improved to 31-4 when shooting above the league average of 36% from deep. They previously took the same amount of three-pointers when they won as when they lost, with their efficiency keying the difference. Monday’s loss dropped the team to 14-14 on worse shooting nights. Mazzulla typically avoids discussing alternative outlets for offense publicly.

Some of that stems from not wanting to discourage a confident offensive approach from his group, especially when piling up quality attempts and hitting them at their expected rate provides the most straightforward path to victory. The Knicks game showed how relying solely on threes could cost the Celtics across a smaller sample size in the playoffs.

Mazzulla highlighted a weak spot in New York’s defense above the break, anticipated they would not shoot well against the Knicks’ rim protection and embarked on the team’s worst three-point shooting night all season — 21.4%.

https://www.clnsmedia.com/jaylen-brown-stresses-fewer-threes-as-celtics-beat-cavaliers/

I love that JB is taking charge there and is pushing for a style of play that doesn't work. The real question is, is Mazz going to push back on that?  Or, in nights where we're shooting poorly, can Mazz make adjustments?

I took it the other way - that he wants the team to go to a style of play that works (driving/getting into the lane) rather than continuing to chuck 3's particularly when they aren't falling.

[Roy H.]

I find this stuff to be really interesting, in a team dynamics sort of way:

While Jayson Tatum stayed home from the Celtics’ trip to Milwaukee before the all-star break, he watched from the television angle and congratulated the team in the group chat for their efforts. He also joked about his main takeaway from afar — the team shoots a ton of threes.

Jaylen Brown saw the same theme play out while missing Monday night’s loss to the Knicks for personal reasons. The Celtics passed side-to-side, settled and despite head coach Joe Mazzulla’s pre-game appeal to shoot more threes confidently in games where they lose, Brown brought Boston’s attention toward the rim in a 117-113 win over the Cavaliers. The Celtics attempted 32 threes, well below their season average, hitting 50% while shooting 21-for-38 (55.3%) in the paint, 12 makes coming from Brown and Tatum.

“I think we started off the game shooting way too many threes,” Brown told CLNS Media on Wednesday. “I know that’s part of how the game goes, but when you’re not making them, getting to the basket, getting some shots that we know we can hit can open things up. Even tonight, we didn’t start off the game shooting the ball fantastic, but being able to score in transition, being able to get some open shots and creating for others just opens the game up a little bit for everybody. Watching that (Knicks) game was tough.

“You’ve got to get those paint touches first,” Brown said. “Usually I’m that guy. Usually I’m the one creating the paint threat, usually I’m the one trying to sink the defense in a little bit and create that pressure for us to get open threes. I think there’s a difference between swinging it around the perimeter a little bit and not really having a physical presence in the paint.”

Boston improved to 31-4 when shooting above the league average of 36% from deep. They previously took the same amount of three-pointers when they won as when they lost, with their efficiency keying the difference. Monday’s loss dropped the team to 14-14 on worse shooting nights. Mazzulla typically avoids discussing alternative outlets for offense publicly.

Some of that stems from not wanting to discourage a confident offensive approach from his group, especially when piling up quality attempts and hitting them at their expected rate provides the most straightforward path to victory. The Knicks game showed how relying solely on threes could cost the Celtics across a smaller sample size in the playoffs.

Mazzulla highlighted a weak spot in New York’s defense above the break, anticipated they would not shoot well against the Knicks’ rim protection and embarked on the team’s worst three-point shooting night all season — 21.4%.

https://www.clnsmedia.com/jaylen-brown-stresses-fewer-threes-as-celtics-beat-cavaliers/

I love that JB is taking charge there and is pushing for a style of play that doesn't work. The real question is, is Mazz going to push back on that?  Or, in nights where we're shooting poorly, can Mazz make adjustments?

I took it the other way - that he wants the team to go to a style of play that works (driving/getting into the lane) rather than continuing to chuck 3's particularly when they aren't falling.

Yeah, I must have gotten distracted typing that sentence, because I agree with you (and Jaylen).

[Vermont Green]

The real question is, is Mazz going to push back on that?

I doubt Mazzulla is going to push back or is threatened or worried about a player taking some lead on an issue like this.

[Goldstar88]

The roster was constructed to shoot a lot of 3’s. This is how Brad believes the game should be played. That’s how the team played when he was the coach, then Ime and now Joe. They are not going to go away from it.

[Roy H.]

The roster was constructed to shoot a lot of 3’s. This is how Brad believes the game should be played. That’s how the team played when he was the coach, then Ime and now Joe. They are not going to go away from it.

What happens when the team isn't shooting well, though?  There need to be other ways to generate offense, which is what Jaylen was talking about.  The stats cited by CLNS are instructive:  we're amazing if we hit 36%, and are very mediocre if we don't.  Similarly, it was mentioned the other day that we're the 16th best offense since starting 21-5. 

Ime's teams relied on the 3PT, but their calling card was elite defense.  Brad's teams good, but never reached the Finals, and ended up playing a season of roughly .500 basketball before he quit.  Joe needs to diversify the offense.  He can't just rely upon the players to figure it out on their own, or worse, go with the "no adjustments" approach he publicly stated previously.

[Goldstar88]

The roster was constructed to shoot a lot of 3’s. This is how Brad believes the game should be played. That’s how the team played when he was the coach, then Ime and now Joe. They are not going to go away from it.

What happens when the team isn't shooting well, though?  There need to be other ways to generate offense, which is what Jaylen was talking about.  The stats cited by CLNS are instructive:  we're amazing if we hit 36%, and are very mediocre if we don't.  Similarly, it was mentioned the other day that we're the 16th best offense since starting 21-5. 

Ime's teams relied on the 3PT, but their calling card was elite defense.  Brad's teams good, but never reached the Finals, and ended up playing a season of roughly .500 basketball before he quit.  Joe needs to diversify the offense.  He can't just rely upon the players to figure it out on their own, or worse, go with the "no adjustments" approach he publicly stated previously.

Honestly, I don’t like all the 3pt shooting. I’m just acknowledging that this is how Brad wants the team to play. Guess he figures that the C’s won’t shoot poorly for an entire playoff series since the team has so many good shooters. Boston had the best record in all of basketball for the vast majority of this season. Even now they are only half a game behind. I doubt they change their style of play at this point.

[slamtheking]

The roster was constructed to shoot a lot of 3’s. This is how Brad believes the game should be played. That’s how the team played when he was the coach, then Ime and now Joe. They are not going to go away from it.

What happens when the team isn't shooting well, though?  There need to be other ways to generate offense, which is what Jaylen was talking about.  The stats cited by CLNS are instructive:  we're amazing if we hit 36%, and are very mediocre if we don't.  Similarly, it was mentioned the other day that we're the 16th best offense since starting 21-5. 

Ime's teams relied on the 3PT, but their calling card was elite defense.  Brad's teams good, but never reached the Finals, and ended up playing a season of roughly .500 basketball before he quit.  Joe needs to diversify the offense.  He can't just rely upon the players to figure it out on their own, or worse, go with the "no adjustments" approach he publicly stated previously.

Honestly, I don’t like all the 3pt shooting. I’m just acknowledging that this is how Brad wants the team to play. Guess he figures that the C’s won’t shoot poorly for an entire playoff series since the team has so many good shooters. Boston had the best record in all of basketball for the vast majority of this season. Even now they are only half a game behind. I doubt they change their style of play at this point.

and that's why they're now just the second best record (at least partially) --> too much reliance on hitting 3's.  on night's when the team is chucking bricks, there needs to be more plays in the offensive scheme than just throw the ball around the perimeter for someone to chuck another brick.  it's not rocket science.  put someone in the post to either create offense or be able to pass to a cutter or open shooter inside the 3 point line where they're more likely to make the shot.  Smart is an excellent candidate for this.  White can do it as well as Al.  Tatum and Brown could do it but need more reps at it to become more proficient.

even if the team isn't haven't a bad shooting night, it's always good to diversify the offense to keep the defense off balance.  this whole season (and prior seasons since Brad was coaching) the C's offensive scheme has become really predictable --> play for the pass rather than the shot particularly when the C's drive in the lane or pass into the post.  how many times have we season this season and last where someone has the ball in the lane and can take either an open or mildly contested shot only to not even look at the basket just to pass it out for a 3 point attempt?  it's insane.  take the easy 2 and get back on defense.

[Indocelts]

Jaylen just simply said something  that many of us in this forum have known for a long time. The fact that it has just been brought up by either the coach or the player is just perplexing to me.

Joe's principle that everyting will sort out by itself is a stupid idea, imo, as it let Tatum stay in the game bricking 3s and even encouraged him to shoot more to be in rhytm (which never came lately), on top of the lack of timeout that been discussed before.

Tatum and Brown/Smart should reduce their 3 point shots altogether and drive more to the basket, or let other players shot the open 3s.

[jpotter33]

I mean, just look at Tatum’s numbers last night: 41 points on only 6 3pfg attempts and over 10 fts.

When he and the rest of the team mixes up their game, that’s when they’re deadly. Agree with Jaylen. It’s fine to shoot a lot of threes when we have the right personnel now, but it has to be mixed in with other looks, too, in order to create the necessary spacing and defense shifting.

[Roy H.]

I mean, just look at Tatum’s numbers last night: 41 points on only 6 3pfg attempts and over 10 fts.

When he and the rest of the team mixes up their game, that’s when they’re deadly. Agree with Jaylen. It’s fine to shoot a lot of threes when we have the right personnel now, but it has to be mixed in with other looks, too, in order to create the necessary spacing and defense shifting.

Yeah, it was probably just my perception after watching that extraordinarily ugly Knicks game, but the looks attacking the basket just seemed to lead to all-around success for the offense. 

I mean, it's a basic principle of basketball:  attacking the paint leads to free throws, passing lanes, and open shots.

[W8ting2McHale]

I don’t see this as Jaylen pushing a different style of play. He’s making an observation that the way the team plays is impacted when he doesn’t play. Both the games he mentioned, against the Bucks and the Knicks, were games he sat out.

“You’ve got to get those paint touches first,” Brown said. “Usually I’m that guy. Usually I’m the one creating the paint threat, usually I’m the one trying to sink the defense in a little bit and create that pressure for us to get open threes. I think there’s a difference between swinging it around the perimeter a little bit and not really having a physical presence in the paint.”

He’s recognizing that when he doesn’t play, there’s not someone else stepping up and doing that. They still chuck 3’s as per usual, but whether it’s Mazz or the team not figuring it out, there’s less driving to the rim to balance missing out Jaylen’s contribution.

Tatum should certainly take it to the rim more, especially when he’s cold from 3, but White, Smart, and  Brogdon could all step into that role. For whatever reason that’s not what happened in those two games.

And yes, I also am not a fan of teams relying solely on 3 point shots for offense. I really dislike that modern basketball has become a Chuck-fest. I’m in agreement that the Celtics, and not just Jaylen, emphasize attacking the rim when the 3 point shooting is failing.

[wdleehi]

I think the threes are going to come but when the Celtics play their best, those three come after the push the ball into the paint and kick and swing.   


This game, there was just more good opportunities inside the paint that didn't lead to the kick back out. 

[kraidstar]

Generating high percentage shots - including 3's -  requires work. Sometimes this team gets lazy and doesn't fully engage, especially against lesser teams.

[Csfan1984]

Would be good to get some paint touches for the bigs more often. Just Incase threes aren't falling.