Celtics (42-17) at Pacers (26-34) Game #60 2/23/23

[jpotter33]

How about Brogdon with 24/7/5 off the bench. His shooting percentages were excellent too.

Just watched on replay. I like the closing lineup: Smart, Brogdon, Brown, Tatum, Horford. Best overall team that Joe can put out there.

Yeah, same here.

Interestingly, we almost never played Brogdon in the end game situations pre ASB when fully healthy.

I wonder if that was likely for load management for Brogdon and we’ll start seeing this more closer to the playoffs, as I do think that’s probably our best unit, especially with Timelord still not fully himself.

In the same vein, we saw all three of Smart, White, and Brogdon out there at one point, too. It’ll certainly be matchup-dependent, but I bet we start seeing more of the two and three guard lineups.

[Atzar]

How about Brogdon with 24/7/5 off the bench. His shooting percentages were excellent too.

Just watched on replay. I like the closing lineup: Smart, Brogdon, Brown, Tatum, Horford. Best overall team that Joe can put out there.

Honestly I'd love to find a way to get White in the closing lineup on some nights.  If Smart or Brogdon are having off nights, go with DW.  Against some teams it might even be viable bringing him in instead of Horford, playing Tatum at the 5. 

Can't really complain though.  Having 6 closer-caliber players is a nice problem to have. 

[footey]

I continue to be concerned about the long term health of Rob Williams.   His ability has declined, and I doubt he will factor in much for the rest of this season.  Just lacks the pre-injury explosiveness and leaping ability he once possessed.  Very worrisome.  I question our ability to win it all without 100% Rob.  50% Rob won't cut it.

[Goldstar88]

I continue to be concerned about the long term health of Rob Williams.   His ability has declined, and I doubt he will factor in much for the rest of this season.  Just lacks the pre-injury explosiveness and leaping ability he once possessed.  Very worrisome.  I question our ability to win it all without 100% Rob.  50% Rob won't cut it.

He’s not at 50%… his Per36 numbers for pts and rebs are actually better this year than they were last year. Rob’s had good games and bad games this season, it happens. If he wasn’t healthy enough to play, he wouldn’t be playing.

[Vermont Green]

I continue to be concerned about the long term health of Rob Williams.   His ability has declined, and I doubt he will factor in much for the rest of this season.  Just lacks the pre-injury explosiveness and leaping ability he once possessed.  Very worrisome.  I question our ability to win it all without 100% Rob.  50% Rob won't cut it.

He’s not at 50%… his Per36 numbers for pts and rebs are actually better this year than they were last year. Rob’s had good games and bad games this season, it happens. If he wasn’t healthy enough to play, he wouldn’t be playing.

I am plenty concerned about Rob Williams.  Being able to play without risk of further injury is not the same thing as the knee being back to the same as before the injury.  I see a combination of 2 things; one is that other teams have figured out how to play him now to take away the lob dunks.  So far, Rob has not had a counter.  And the second is that he does not look to me to have the same spring.  He does not look like pre-surgery Rob to me.  Or even earlier in the season Rob.  He appears to have worn down some.

It was the first game back after a long break.  To me, both Rob and Al looked off.  Both lacked "bounce".  So color me worried until I see the bounce or spring back in both their steps.

[footey]

I continue to be concerned about the long term health of Rob Williams.   His ability has declined, and I doubt he will factor in much for the rest of this season.  Just lacks the pre-injury explosiveness and leaping ability he once possessed.  Very worrisome.  I question our ability to win it all without 100% Rob.  50% Rob won't cut it.

He’s not at 50%… his Per36 numbers for pts and rebs are actually better this year than they were last year. Rob’s had good games and bad games this season, it happens. If he wasn’t healthy enough to play, he wouldn’t be playing.

Per36 is pretty meaningless. I'm talking about eye test. Surely you have noticed he is no where nearly as explosive a leaper as prior seasons.  I've posed video highlights from last season of his blocks, etc.  He doesn't have same lift. 

[Kuberski33]

I continue to be concerned about the long term health of Rob Williams.   His ability has declined, and I doubt he will factor in much for the rest of this season.  Just lacks the pre-injury explosiveness and leaping ability he once possessed.  Very worrisome.  I question our ability to win it all without 100% Rob.  50% Rob won't cut it.

Some here criticized his defense last night. In fairness to him their poor team D was a collective effort. No one was getting out on their perimeter guys so the ball was moving at will - until they made the one stop they really needed at the end.

[Sophomore]

I continue to be concerned about the long term health of Rob Williams.   His ability has declined, and I doubt he will factor in much for the rest of this season.  Just lacks the pre-injury explosiveness and leaping ability he once possessed.  Very worrisome.  I question our ability to win it all without 100% Rob.  50% Rob won't cut it.

He’s not at 50%… his Per36 numbers for pts and rebs are actually better this year than they were last year. Rob’s had good games and bad games this season, it happens. If he wasn’t healthy enough to play, he wouldn’t be playing.

Per36 is pretty meaningless. I'm talking about eye test. Surely you have noticed he is no where nearly as explosive a leaper as prior seasons.  I've posed video highlights from last season of his blocks, etc.  He doesn't have same lift.

I don’t know if he’s less explosive. He’s probably, in part, trying to ration some of his explosiveness - not go 100% every play. 

Here’s a stat that seems important: his offensive rebound rate is elite - 14.9% - and tied with his career high. That’s almost purely an effort/hustle stat - depends on him consistently doing work to avoid a box out, track the ball and get to the right spot, explode up to get the ball. He’s as good as he’s ever been at it, and one of the best in the league. It’s pretty impressive considering how often he starts the play away from the basket, with high pick and rolls and handoffs.  You don’t get those boards without good mobility.

His block % is down, but I’d maintain that’s because he’s playing smarter. See how many times he doesn’t commit to try and block, and as a result he’s in position to box someone out and/or get a d rebound.

[Goldstar88]

I continue to be concerned about the long term health of Rob Williams.   His ability has declined, and I doubt he will factor in much for the rest of this season.  Just lacks the pre-injury explosiveness and leaping ability he once possessed.  Very worrisome.  I question our ability to win it all without 100% Rob.  50% Rob won't cut it.

He’s not at 50%… his Per36 numbers for pts and rebs are actually better this year than they were last year. Rob’s had good games and bad games this season, it happens. If he wasn’t healthy enough to play, he wouldn’t be playing.

Per36 is pretty meaningless. I'm talking about eye test. Surely you have noticed he is no where nearly as explosive a leaper as prior seasons.  I've posed video highlights from last season of his blocks, etc.  He doesn't have same lift.

Per36 is not meaningless. I don’t care about how high he can jump, I care about his production and he’s still a very productive player. Rob probably has lost some athleticism from the injuries. So have other players. It happens.

[Celtics4ever]

PER36 stats are nothing more than a projection.   They are not real stats as they were never produced.  There are reasons are guys do not play those minutes, sometimes it is not good.

Rob 's minutes are managed.    He is still a good rim protector when in the game.

Take a look at some lineup data, we do quite well when Rob is in the game.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?TeamID=1610612738&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=NET_RATING

https://www.lineups.com/nba/lineups/boston-celtics

As for teams figuring out the lob, Rob is scoring two more points less than last year.  Who cares if they are not lobs?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/williro04.html#all_per_game-playoffs_per_game

[SHAQATTACK]

Heck of an effort

[footey]

I’m kind of stunned that no one sees the decline in Rob’s athleticism and hops. Pretty obvious to me. John Zannis brings it up a lot on CLNS post game shows. I agree with him.

I miss this guy (from last season):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSwOQMbVGxk

[Roy H.]

I’m kind of stunned that no one sees the decline in Rob’s athleticism and hops. Pretty obvious to me. John Zannis brings it up a lot on CLNS post game shows. I agree with him.

I miss this guy (from last season):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSwOQMbVGxk

I think that most people assume that he’s holding something back, but are also impressed that his scoring / rebounding rate are actually up a bit.

[footey]

I’m kind of stunned that no one sees the decline in Rob’s athleticism and hops. Pretty obvious to me. John Zannis brings it up a lot on CLNS post game shows. I agree with him.

I miss this guy (from last season):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSwOQMbVGxk

I think that most people assume that he’s holding something back, but are also impressed that his scoring / rebounding rate are actually up a bit.

I hope they’re right.

[Yuckabuck33]

I continue to be concerned about the long term health of Rob Williams.   His ability has declined, and I doubt he will factor in much for the rest of this season.  Just lacks the pre-injury explosiveness and leaping ability he once possessed.  Very worrisome.  I question our ability to win it all without 100% Rob.  50% Rob won't cut it.

Maybe it's just going to take another year, like Gordon Hayward did, to get back closer to form. I think Paul George had an off year after surgery, but I could be wrong.