Marcus or White?

[Roy H.]

I saw this in last night's game thread, and I thought it was worthy of broader discussion:
 

Not sure it’s been said earlier, but if it hasn’t… Derrick White should start and finish over Marcus.

There are multiple questions packed in there.  Should White start?  Should White finish?  Should he be doing either/both over Marcus?

[Donoghus]

I actually like White being a spark plug off the bench.  The energy he brings on both ends is really well served in the role he's currently in.

"If it ain't broke..."

[Roy H.]

In terms of finishing lineups, it depends on what we need, and who we're matched up against.  There are definite tradeoffs for subbing in White in place of Timelord or Horford, for instance.

I think that the only fair solution is to petition the NBA to allow us to have six players on the floor in the fourth quarter.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Isn't there some Mexican food commercial where two parties are fighting over which food is better and a little girl says, "Why not both?"

That's where I'm at. Depends on the matchups. I like two big lineups, but both White and Marcus do a good job playing up a few positions on defense.

[nebist]

We have too much of a good thing going last two years in general to mess with preferred starters (Smart, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Rob). I do think the closing lineup question is very much up in the air. Personally, I would want Smart on the floor in all key situations, but I think who gets the call and when/why (Rob, White, or Brogdon) around Tatum, Brown, Smart, and Al is a fascinating question.

[Vermont Green]

I had said this in the game thread but, at the start of the season, everyone thought it would be Brogdon who would displace Smart as the starter.  Funny (to me anyway) that now it is White that is being discussed as the rightful starter or #1 PG.

It is tough because I feel that White is clearly a starter level player.  Brogdon may be as well.  It is like having a QB controversy in football.  I think Smart is the best of them with the starters.  White is probably better for the role he had last night, but not when all the other starters are on the floor.  There is not a large difference though.  The team would still be good with either starting/playing with the starters.

As to starting or closing with both, I think we are at our best with Brown, Tatum, Horford, RWill, and a PG, with Smart being the PG in most cases.  But certain game situations may dictate having both White and Smart on the floor to close a game (a one big line up).  That is fine.  In general, I would want to do what my team does best and make the other team adjust but nothing is hard and fast.  If in a given game, you decide to do something different, so be it.

[nyceltsfan]

I had said this in the game thread but, at the start of the season, everyone thought it would be Brogdon who would displace Smart as the starter.  Funny (to me anyway) that now it is White that is being discussed as the rightful starter or #1 PG.

It is tough because I feel that White is clearly a starter level player.  Brogdon may be as well.  It is like having a QB controversy in football.  I think Smart is the best of them with the starters.  White is probably better for the role he had last night, but not when all the other starters are on the floor.  There is not a large difference though.  The team would still be good with either starting/playing with the starters.

As to starting or closing with both, I think we are at our best with Brown, Tatum, Horford, RWill, and a PG, with Smart being the PG in most cases.  But certain game situations may dictate having both White and Smart on the floor to close a game (a one big line up).  That is fine.  In general, I would want to do what my team does best and make the other team adjust but nothing is hard and fast.  If in a given game, you decide to do something different, so be it.

I hope this team's depth will not cause problems in the postseason.  As I was reading your post, I was thinking it would be prudent to explore starting one big and having Tatum and Brown in the frontcourt with White and Smart starting in the backcourt.  However, starting one big means that Grant Williams and Muscala are pushed back in the rotation.  Griffin also seems to be earning minutes.  If we keep White or Smart on the bench to start the games, that pushes Brogdon back in the rotation, not to mention Pritchard and maybe Hauser.  Kornet has also been solid for stretches this season and he will not see the floor when the team is fully healthy.

I think that although it bit them in the final series last year, one thing that helped the Celtics reach the finals was a clear rotation where the top 7-9 guys were the ones who would see the floor and the remaining guys rode the pine.  This year, we go 11-12 deep, which is great, but can make the rotations in the playoffs unpredictable - even to the players on the team.

[angryguy77]

Got to go with Smart. White is playing well, but he's too up and down for my liking.

[ozgod]

I think this might be a case of short-memory syndrome. When we were in our losing streak we couldn't wait for Marcus to come back. Now that we've won a few games again his contribution has been relegated. No doubt Derrick is in a rich vein of form right now, he's averaging 22 points and 7 assists in 37 mins in Feb vs 11 points in 26 minutes in Jan. The way I would look at it is that we have three (with Brogdon) great ball handlers to constantly give an opposing team different looks. When Smart is out we should have confidence that we have players who can step up and fill the void.

[Vermont Green]

I had said this in the game thread but, at the start of the season, everyone thought it would be Brogdon who would displace Smart as the starter.  Funny (to me anyway) that now it is White that is being discussed as the rightful starter or #1 PG.

It is tough because I feel that White is clearly a starter level player.  Brogdon may be as well.  It is like having a QB controversy in football.  I think Smart is the best of them with the starters.  White is probably better for the role he had last night, but not when all the other starters are on the floor.  There is not a large difference though.  The team would still be good with either starting/playing with the starters.

As to starting or closing with both, I think we are at our best with Brown, Tatum, Horford, RWill, and a PG, with Smart being the PG in most cases.  But certain game situations may dictate having both White and Smart on the floor to close a game (a one big line up).  That is fine.  In general, I would want to do what my team does best and make the other team adjust but nothing is hard and fast.  If in a given game, you decide to do something different, so be it.

I hope this team's depth will not cause problems in the postseason.  As I was reading your post, I was thinking it would be prudent to explore starting one big and having Tatum and Brown in the frontcourt with White and Smart starting in the backcourt.  However, starting one big means that Grant Williams and Muscala are pushed back in the rotation.  Griffin also seems to be earning minutes.  If we keep White or Smart on the bench to start the games, that pushes Brogdon back in the rotation, not to mention Pritchard and maybe Hauser.  Kornet has also been solid for stretches this season and he will not see the floor when the team is fully healthy.

I think that although it bit them in the final series last year, one thing that helped the Celtics reach the finals was a clear rotation where the top 7-9 guys were the ones who would see the floor and the remaining guys rode the pine.  This year, we go 11-12 deep, which is great, but can make the rotations in the playoffs unpredictable - even to the players on the team.

There will be a clear rotation for the playoffs or end of regular season stretch.  The exact number of minutes for each of the core rotation may evolve but the core players are pretty set in my view:

Tatum
Brown
RWill
Horford
Smart
White
Brogdon
Grant

That core 8 is a lock in my mind.  Then the next tier is Hauser and Pritchard.  They may play sometimes.  And one of Kornet, Griffin, Muscala will likely emerge as part of that tier.  Muscala probably will be the one.  Then Kornet, Griffin, and whatever wing we pick up will be the end of the bench.  Maybe a 2-way active for Gallinari.

I am not worried about "finding minutes" for Hauser, Pritchard, and Muscala in the playoffs.  They will be mostly on the bench but need to stay ready.  They will have some opportunities but probably not regular opportunities.  That is just the way it goes.  8 is a solid playoff rotation.  Hauser may crack that core rotation but I doubt it.  Our 9-11 are pretty good and on many teams would be a core rotation player, but not on this team.

[celts55]

Maybe with Rob”s injury history and Al’s age, they should consider sending one of them to the bench?
A starting lineup of Smart, White, Brown, Tatum and either of those two looks pretty good to me.
With Brogdon coming off the bench, adding either of those guys would be a great addition

[wdleehi]

Until I see last years starting lineup not work (if they ever get them on the floor at the same time), that the lineup I want to see.   

The way White plays though means that there is less need to run starters into the ground when everyone is healthy.

[Kernewek]

Josh Richardson.

[ozgod]

Maybe with Rob”s injury history and Al’s age, they should consider sending one of them to the bench?
A starting lineup of Smart, White, Brown, Tatum and either of those two looks pretty good to me.
With Brogdon coming off the bench, adding either of those guys would be a great addition

That's the lineup we've had since the start of the year - Smart, White, Brown, Tatum and Al to start and Malcolm instead of White to close in a traditional one-big lineup and Malcolm instead of Al in a small lineup.

I don't think we should be hung up on having the exact same lineup opening and closing games - clearly that should be your best 5 players in the majority of cases, but particularly with the closing lineup it will depend to some extent on who we are playing and what the matchup is, whether it's an offensive or defensive lineup, etc.

I think it's great that we have seven starting caliber players in Smart, White, Brown, Tatum, Al, Malcolm and Rob, another solid rotation guy to cover multiple positions in GWill, and a couple of shooters to come off the bench in Hauser and Muscala. It gives a lot of different looks we can throw out there that another team has to worry about.

[Goldstar88]

I don’t think Marcus would take it very well if he was moved out of the starting lineup and wasn’t able to finish games. Feel like White gives the C’s a good scoring punch off the bench with Brogdon and also hasn’t White been finishing games with Smart?

I think the more interesting question is, if you could only keep one of Smart or White on the team, who would it be?