Author Topic: This team looks to have quit on Joe  (Read 11261 times)

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Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2023, 08:48:20 PM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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Hopefully they keep playing well against the Mavericks in the 2nd half so some of the wrists that were slit have a chance to heal.

But then, it is a make or miss league and so far the Celtics are the ones making them and the Mavericks other than Luka, are the ones missing so far tonight.

Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #76 on: January 05, 2023, 09:57:26 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I think it's easy as fans to overreact based on the most recent performance. I really believe you have to take a wide angle view. Just given the nature of your two best players, and having a veteran roster - there are going to be nights where they just collectively stink and won't make the effort required to compete. They are hardly alone in that department.  On the road vs a lousy west team without its best player- that's recipe ripe for sleepwalking.

But I think we have to keep an eye on the team defense as that's what ultimately makes them either a championship contender or a team that won't make the conference finals. The ability to stop good teams from scoring when it matters.

They, themselves, can score. Can they defend and rebound well enough vs the top teams?

Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #77 on: January 06, 2023, 08:49:12 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Obviously, I feel a lot better about them after the game last night.  I had said that I did not feel anyone had "quit" but that I was still concerned that the team seemed to be coasting.  I also said that I felt the team had the character to fix this.  I hope this stretch was a wake up call for them and that they are now awake.

I think this bad stretch was more than just the normal ebb and flow of the regular season.  What I saw was a team that was coasting.  Was a little too confident in their ability to "flip the switch" and win when they needed too.  This DAL game was a nice win.  Now let's see if they keep it going against SAN.  Have a stretch where they play well every game.

The team has enough of a track record that I feel the character is there.  I don't think this team is going to quit on the coach or otherwise.  The track record for the coach is not there yet.  I don't think this team has quit or will quit.  But in my mind, that is more about the team than the coach.  Mazzulla appears to be doing fine but it is hard to say at this point just how good a coach he is or will be.  About all you can say is so far so good.

The coach player thing can be fickle.  The Nets seem to be playing better under Vaughn than Nash but I don't think Nash was a bad coach or that Vaughn is necessarily a better coach.  Teams tend to get a little bump from a coaching change.  The Nets got that.  We'll see how long it lasts.  The situation that Mazzulla came in under was very strange.  As I said, by all appearances, he seems to be doing fine.  He needs to get the team playing better defense though.  And the team is probably relying on the 3 a little too much.  Let's see if he can do it.

Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2023, 09:46:05 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I think it's easy as fans to overreact based on the most recent performance. I really believe you have to take a wide angle view. Just given the nature of your two best players, and having a veteran roster - there are going to be nights where they just collectively stink and won't make the effort required to compete. They are hardly alone in that department.  On the road vs a lousy west team without its best player- that's recipe ripe for sleepwalking.

But I think we have to keep an eye on the team defense as that's what ultimately makes them either a championship contender or a team that won't make the conference finals. The ability to stop good teams from scoring when it matters.

They, themselves, can score. Can they defend and rebound well enough vs the top teams?

Most fans live in the moment...we don't think about the team until the 2 hours that they are on TV then we watch and for those 2 hours we live in the moment. That's why there's always overreaction to both good streaks and bad ones. But if you look at things over a longer lens, this team has proven it's capable of beating all our main competitors, and probably in a 7 game series against anyone you would put money on them.

But against some of the riffraff teams, or when they are not on national TV, they tend to take nights off, are not focused, don't take the game serious, which is where we get these bad losses where we get blown out, or we get blown out, then make a comeback but fall short. Then it starts a round of wrist slitting where we overanalyze why - is it the coach? Do we need better defensive coverages? Do we need another big? Another point guard? Another wing? When really the issue is just the effort and the attitude, particularly on the defensive end.

Which is a hard thing to try to analyze and get a fix for - because are we confident that they will be able to turn it on when the time is right?

I will say one thing. I'm sure the team has advanced metrics that it is privy to, from Cleaning the Glass and other sources that require thousand dollar subscriptions, that the analysts are looking at on a regular basis, to work out which variables correlate most with winning and losing, and are tracking those regularly, so they can figure out numerically whether the team is genuinely dipping or if it is just the RNG of being in a make/miss league. As a person who loves stats I wish I had access to those as well but it's just too expensive :-\
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #79 on: January 06, 2023, 01:19:31 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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This was a good win! The question is, can they keep this up? Will the wreck SA tomorrow, squeak by or lose?

They didn't struggle from 3 last night and that led to everything else falling into place. This is still something I have a concern about and can they adjust to beating a good team when they're not? I have to see more.

Joe challenged the bench to step up and they did. Can and will the continue to keep the intensity up( I hope they do)? Will they listen if he has to yet again call them out? Time will tell.

If we are going to call the response to the current slump an overreaction, then acting like everything else is great after this win would also be one.
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #80 on: January 07, 2023, 05:13:03 AM »

Offline ozgod

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This was a good win! The question is, can they keep this up? Will the wreck SA tomorrow, squeak by or lose?

They didn't struggle from 3 last night and that led to everything else falling into place. This is still something I have a concern about and can they adjust to beating a good team when they're not? I have to see more.

Joe challenged the bench to step up and they did. Can and will the continue to keep the intensity up( I hope they do)? Will they listen if he has to yet again call them out? Time will tell.

If we are going to call the response to the current slump an overreaction, then acting like everything else is great after this win would also be one.

Very true. The adage "you're never as good as people think you are, but you also aren't as bad as people think you are" applies in this case. We weren't as good as our November numbers suggested, but we're also not as bad as our December and January numbers suggested. Over the long term I think it's apparent that the team can beat anyone in a 7 game series IF they put their minds to it and put the effort in, even if they don't shoot well they can knuckle down. But if they don't put the effort in, and get lazy and settle for 3s, and let bad offense lead to bad defense, they can get thrashed by even some bottom feeder. It's this team's Achilles Heel over the last few seasons - maintaining their interest against deadbeat teams.

Case in point, Charlotte scored a record 51 points in the first quarter on their way to thrashing Milwaukee 138-109. Milwaukee was missing Middleton but was otherwise at full strength. It's not like Charlotte caught fire from 3, they were 20-48 for 41% while the Bucks were the same, 20-48 for 41%. A few games earlier they were hammered by Memphis by 41 points. What's different between them and us is the Bucks have been getting thrashed a lot lately which suggests they might be some fundamental issues with their team while we (barring the OKC game) have lost close games to bottom feeders, which to me shows a lack of interest and focus from the team.

On another note, poor Gordy…he injured himself yet again and missed out on that thrashing  :-\
« Last Edit: January 07, 2023, 06:05:33 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #81 on: January 07, 2023, 07:40:13 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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To be honest I think 'failing to maintain an interest against bad teams' has been a hallmark of most of the C's squads going back to 2010 or so. IT's insane season is the only outlier that springs to mind to me.
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Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2023, 08:00:35 AM »

Offline ozgod

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To be honest I think 'failing to maintain an interest against bad teams' has been a hallmark of most of the C's squads going back to 2010 or so. IT's insane season is the only outlier that springs to mind to me.

IT was trying to get paid, which probably explained that. I would think that GWill would be trying to do the same, instead of acting lackadaisical and uninterested at times (which suspiciously seem to coincide with our losses).
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Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2023, 08:56:51 AM »

Offline Moranis

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To be honest I think 'failing to maintain an interest against bad teams' has been a hallmark of most of the C's squads going back to 2010 or so. IT's insane season is the only outlier that springs to mind to me.

IT was trying to get paid, which probably explained that. I would think that GWill would be trying to do the same, instead of acting lackadaisical and uninterested at times (which suspiciously seem to coincide with our losses).
Grant is the 8th best player kn the team.  He isn't skilled enough to make any real difference
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Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2023, 09:37:08 AM »

Offline mobilija

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To be honest I think 'failing to maintain an interest against bad teams' has been a hallmark of most of the C's squads going back to 2010 or so. IT's insane season is the only outlier that springs to mind to me.

IT was trying to get paid, which probably explained that. I would think that GWill would be trying to do the same, instead of acting lackadaisical and uninterested at times (which suspiciously seem to coincide with our losses).
Grant is the 8th best player kn the team.  He isn't skilled enough to make any real difference

Overly simplistic statement and false.

Game 7 vs Bucks says hello

Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2023, 10:03:17 AM »

Offline ozgod

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To be honest I think 'failing to maintain an interest against bad teams' has been a hallmark of most of the C's squads going back to 2010 or so. IT's insane season is the only outlier that springs to mind to me.

IT was trying to get paid, which probably explained that. I would think that GWill would be trying to do the same, instead of acting lackadaisical and uninterested at times (which suspiciously seem to coincide with our losses).
Grant is the 8th best player kn the team.  He isn't skilled enough to make any real difference

Was talking more about the mentality he should have and the consistent effort when you are trying to play for a $18m+ contract, which he seems to feel he deserves.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2023, 10:59:16 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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To be honest I think 'failing to maintain an interest against bad teams' has been a hallmark of most of the C's squads going back to 2010 or so. IT's insane season is the only outlier that springs to mind to me.

IT was trying to get paid, which probably explained that. I would think that GWill would be trying to do the same, instead of acting lackadaisical and uninterested at times (which suspiciously seem to coincide with our losses).
Grant is the 8th best player kn the team.  He isn't skilled enough to make any real difference

Overly simplistic statement and false.

Game 7 vs Bucks says hello
He was basically trash every other playoff series and virtually unplayable in the Finals.

Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2023, 11:46:01 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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There was an article in the Athletic today about how Joe called out the role players before the Mavericks game and how well they responded. This supposedly comes after he's been riding Jaylen and Jayson hard about consistently making the right play. Everyone said he's great at holding them accountable, and the Jays are having their most consistent and least ball dominant season ever. I'd say Coach Joe is doing an okay job.

Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2023, 12:53:31 PM »

Offline Yuckabuck33

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https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/1/8/23544465/jayson-tatum-robert-williams-boston-celtics-san-antonio-spurs-defense-malaki-branham

The headline makes it sound worse than the actual quote, but it seems like Jason Tatum is publicly questioning Joe Mazulla's rotations.

Wasn't the last Celtic to publicly question a coach....Kyrie Irving?

Re: This team looks to have quit on Joe
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2023, 04:04:07 AM »

Offline ozgod

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https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/1/8/23544465/jayson-tatum-robert-williams-boston-celtics-san-antonio-spurs-defense-malaki-branham

The headline makes it sound worse than the actual quote, but it seems like Jason Tatum is publicly questioning Joe Mazulla's rotations.

Wasn't the last Celtic to publicly question a coach....Kyrie Irving?

From the interview it looked like he just answered the question honestly, without trying to throw shade on anyone:

Quote
“Whether he starts or comes off the bench, just want him on the floor. Want him healthy. And want to be on the floor with him at the same time as much as possible. So, you know, I’m gonna start, so I would like Rob to start, but, you know, whatever’s best for the team, he’ll do that. And, you know, as much as I can be on the court with him as possible, you know, I think [that] makes us better.”

Doesn't look that subversive when you look at the quote in full.

Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D