Woj: Horford Agrees to Extension

[Moranis]

Al has 5 all star games and just 1 3rd Team All NBA and 1 2nd Team All Defense.  Not good enough for HOF even if Boston wins a title, as he will be at best the 5th best player on the team. 

[ETNCeltics]

Re: the Grant/White discussion, White can play multiple positions and is a good defender. Brad said when we acquired him that the Celtics had been trying to find a way to get him for years. Brad isn't letting him go unless he has no choice or a very attractive trade.

Grant provides one real plus, 3 pt shooting. He can't defend the perimeter, he can't defend talented bigs.

Brad shouldn't pay GW a penny more than he's already been offered. He hasn't shown that he's worth it.

[Celtics2021]

Al has 5 all star games and just 1 3rd Team All NBA and 1 2nd Team All Defense.  Not good enough for HOF even if Boston wins a title, as he will be at best the 5th best player on the team.

The basketball Hall of Fame, unlike baseball and football, includes non-professional accomplishments as well.  Accordingly his being a centerpiece of two NCAA championships will be given weight, and I think will get him in.

[Who]

I am surprised Horford took so little money. I would have valued him at around $20mil per season. Even with a discount maybe two years $30mil. He left a lotta money on the table.

Fair dues to him.

[Donoghus]

Al has 5 all star games and just 1 3rd Team All NBA and 1 2nd Team All Defense.  Not good enough for HOF even if Boston wins a title, as he will be at best the 5th best player on the team.

The basketball Hall of Fame, unlike baseball and football, includes non-professional accomplishments as well.  Accordingly his being a centerpiece of two NCAA championships will be given weight, and I think will get him in.

For sure.  I definitely think it will carry some weight.  Whether its enough or not, who knows. 

A ring is a ring too.  I'm not sure how much the whole " # best player on a title team" really plays in.   The ring is what goes on the resume.

[Moranis]

Al has 5 all star games and just 1 3rd Team All NBA and 1 2nd Team All Defense.  Not good enough for HOF even if Boston wins a title, as he will be at best the 5th best player on the team.

The basketball Hall of Fame, unlike baseball and football, includes non-professional accomplishments as well.  Accordingly his being a centerpiece of two NCAA championships will be given weight, and I think will get him in.

For sure.  I definitely think it will carry some weight.  Whether its enough or not, who knows. 

A ring is a ring too.  I'm not sure how much the whole " # best player on a title team" really plays in.   The ring is what goes on the resume.

It does, but guys like Robert Horry and his SEVEN championship got nowhere near the HOF and his HOF probability was just 3.4%.  Now obviously Horford is a much better player than Horry ever was, but Horry did start for multiple championship teams and was the 3rd leading scorer in the playoffs on both the Rockets teams (which is partly how he got the moniker Big Shot Rob). 

The two NCAA titles will factor in as well, but there is a reason Al's HOF probability is just 12.2% and a title where he is the 5ht or 6th best player, won't get him anywhere near the HOF.  Now if the C's can win a couple or if he somehow looks like 25 year Horford during an entire playoff run, then that would also increase his shot.

[SparzWizard]

Re: the Grant/White discussion, White can play multiple positions and is a good defender. Brad said when we acquired him that the Celtics had been trying to find a way to get him for years. Brad isn't letting him go unless he has no choice or a very attractive trade.

Grant provides one real plus, 3 pt shooting. He can't defend the perimeter, he can't defend talented bigs.

Brad shouldn't pay GW a penny more than he's already been offered. He hasn't shown that he's worth it.

If I had to choose letting someone walk, Grant would be the first choice. 3pt shooting great but everything else not so? Easy decision.

[Roy H.]

Brian Robb pointed this out:

2023-24 Celtics under contract

Jayson Tatum: $32.6 million
Jaylen Brown: $30.7 million
Malcolm Brogdon: $22.5 million
Marcus Smart: $18.5 million
Derrick White: $18.1 million
Robert Williams: $11.8 million
Al Horford: $10 million
Danilo Gallinari: $6.8 million (player option)
Payton Pritchard: $4 million
Luke Kornet: $2.4 million (non-guaranteed)
Sam Hauser: $1.9 million (non-guaranteed)

That's a nice spot to be in.  We've only got four free agents, and I've got to think that two of them will be gone soon:

Free agents:

Grant Williams (restricted)
Justin Jackson
Blake Griffin
Noah Vonleh

Total committed salary (assuming Gallo opts in):  $159,216,302

Theoretically, if we let all the free agents go, we could get under the luxury tax.  More realistically, if Grant gets around $13 million, we'll be right around this year's $175,627,204 allocated salary.

[JSD]

Wow. I pegged him doing a short term deal for the $15-20 Million range. Heck of a deal.

Al Horford is staying in Boston for a discount because he loves it here.

[sgrogan]

Brian Robb pointed this out:

2023-24 Celtics under contract

Jayson Tatum: $32.6 million
Jaylen Brown: $30.7 million
Malcolm Brogdon: $22.5 million
Marcus Smart: $18.5 million
Derrick White: $18.1 million
Robert Williams: $11.8 million
Al Horford: $10 million
Danilo Gallinari: $6.8 million (player option)
Payton Pritchard: $4 million
Luke Kornet: $2.4 million (non-guaranteed)
Sam Hauser: $1.9 million (non-guaranteed)

That's a nice spot to be in.  We've only got four free agents, and I've got to think that two of them will be gone soon:

Free agents:

Grant Williams (restricted)
Justin Jackson
Blake Griffin
Noah Vonleh

Total committed salary (assuming Gallo opts in):  $159,216,302

Theoretically, if we let all the free agents go, we could get under the luxury tax.  More realistically, if Grant gets around $13 million, we'll be right around this year's $175,627,204 allocated salary.

But the cap, and luxury tax threshold, are projected to rise from $150M to $162M
So we could
Sign Grant for $14M
Use the TP-MLE $7M
Sign our 1st pick $2.5
Sign a vet-min $2M
Total would be $185M. That would be $13M against the tax vs. $25M this year.

Maybe some tax guru can figure if the total is lower?

[MattyIce]

Brian Robb pointed this out:

2023-24 Celtics under contract

Jayson Tatum: $32.6 million
Jaylen Brown: $30.7 million
Malcolm Brogdon: $22.5 million
Marcus Smart: $18.5 million
Derrick White: $18.1 million
Robert Williams: $11.8 million
Al Horford: $10 million
Danilo Gallinari: $6.8 million (player option)
Payton Pritchard: $4 million
Luke Kornet: $2.4 million (non-guaranteed)
Sam Hauser: $1.9 million (non-guaranteed)

That's a nice spot to be in.  We've only got four free agents, and I've got to think that two of them will be gone soon:

Free agents:

Grant Williams (restricted)
Justin Jackson
Blake Griffin
Noah Vonleh

Total committed salary (assuming Gallo opts in):  $159,216,302

Theoretically, if we let all the free agents go, we could get under the luxury tax.  More realistically, if Grant gets around $13 million, we'll be right around this year's $175,627,204 allocated salary.

But the cap, and luxury tax threshold, are projected to rise from $150M to $162M
So we could
Sign Grant for $14M
Use the TP-MLE $7M
Sign our 1st pick $2.5
Sign a vet-min $2M
Total would be $185M. That would be $13M against the tax vs. $25M this year.

Maybe some tax guru can figure if the total is lower?

23M?

[sgrogan]

Brian Robb pointed this out:

2023-24 Celtics under contract

Jayson Tatum: $32.6 million
Jaylen Brown: $30.7 million
Malcolm Brogdon: $22.5 million
Marcus Smart: $18.5 million
Derrick White: $18.1 million
Robert Williams: $11.8 million
Al Horford: $10 million
Danilo Gallinari: $6.8 million (player option)
Payton Pritchard: $4 million
Luke Kornet: $2.4 million (non-guaranteed)
Sam Hauser: $1.9 million (non-guaranteed)

That's a nice spot to be in.  We've only got four free agents, and I've got to think that two of them will be gone soon:

Free agents:

Grant Williams (restricted)
Justin Jackson
Blake Griffin
Noah Vonleh

Total committed salary (assuming Gallo opts in):  $159,216,302

Theoretically, if we let all the free agents go, we could get under the luxury tax.  More realistically, if Grant gets around $13 million, we'll be right around this year's $175,627,204 allocated salary.

But the cap, and luxury tax threshold, are projected to rise from $150M to $162M
So we could
Sign Grant for $14M
Use the TP-MLE $7M
Sign our 1st pick $2.5
Sign a vet-min $2M
Total would be $185M. That would be $13M against the tax vs. $25M this year.

Maybe some tax guru can figure if the total is lower?

23M?

185 vs 162 = 23
175 vs 150 = 25
Thanks

So
175 + 60(tax) = 235
185 + 55(tax) = 240?

[bdm860]

Brian Robb pointed this out:

2023-24 Celtics under contract

Jayson Tatum: $32.6 million
Jaylen Brown: $30.7 million
Malcolm Brogdon: $22.5 million
Marcus Smart: $18.5 million
Derrick White: $18.1 million
Robert Williams: $11.8 million
Al Horford: $10 million
Danilo Gallinari: $6.8 million (player option)
Payton Pritchard: $4 million
Luke Kornet: $2.4 million (non-guaranteed)
Sam Hauser: $1.9 million (non-guaranteed)

That's a nice spot to be in.  We've only got four free agents, and I've got to think that two of them will be gone soon:

Free agents:

Grant Williams (restricted)
Justin Jackson
Blake Griffin
Noah Vonleh

Total committed salary (assuming Gallo opts in):  $159,216,302

Theoretically, if we let all the free agents go, we could get under the luxury tax.  More realistically, if Grant gets around $13 million, we'll be right around this year's $175,627,204 allocated salary.

I think it's a huge benefit to team chemistry to have so many guys locked up.

One of the problems with the 2019 team, I believe, was that the whole team had uncertain futures.  Everybody (except Hayward) was either a free agent (Irving, Rozier, Morris, Theis) had player options (Horford, Baynes). or on a rookie deal and rumored all year to be included in an AD trade (Tatum, Brown, Time Lord, Ojeleye, Yabusele), and with Hayward under-performing his contract, I'm sure he was worried he's be included in a trade too.

Now we have none of that.  The only significant free agent is Grant and he's playing 28mpg and getting some starts, so I'm sure he's happy.  And besides some talk in the summer (Durant for Brown) no constant trade rumors either.  I think this is a huge bonus to chemistry.


I also wonder if Brad's style, which seems to be the opposite of Ainge, is partly because of that 2019 team he had to coach.  Danny was all about picks and flexibility to be able to pounce on a big deal if one presented itself.  While Stevens has pretty much been the opposite, trading picks and getting guys on longer term deals.  Danny was trying to win the game with home runs, Brad's hitting singles. 

[slamtheking]

Brian Robb pointed this out:

2023-24 Celtics under contract

Jayson Tatum: $32.6 million
Jaylen Brown: $30.7 million
Malcolm Brogdon: $22.5 million
Marcus Smart: $18.5 million
Derrick White: $18.1 million
Robert Williams: $11.8 million
Al Horford: $10 million
Danilo Gallinari: $6.8 million (player option)
Payton Pritchard: $4 million
Luke Kornet: $2.4 million (non-guaranteed)
Sam Hauser: $1.9 million (non-guaranteed)

That's a nice spot to be in.  We've only got four free agents, and I've got to think that two of them will be gone soon:

Free agents:

Grant Williams (restricted)
Justin Jackson
Blake Griffin
Noah Vonleh

Total committed salary (assuming Gallo opts in):  $159,216,302

Theoretically, if we let all the free agents go, we could get under the luxury tax.  More realistically, if Grant gets around $13 million, we'll be right around this year's $175,627,204 allocated salary.

But the cap, and luxury tax threshold, are projected to rise from $150M to $162M
So we could
Sign Grant for $14M
Use the TP-MLE $7M
Sign our 1st pick $2.5
Sign a vet-min $2M
Total would be $185M. That would be $13M against the tax vs. $25M this year.

Maybe some tax guru can figure if the total is lower?

23M?

185 vs 162 = 23
175 vs 150 = 25
Thanks

So
175 + 60(tax) = 235
185 + 55(tax) = 240?

more saving for us -- I don't believe we have our first rounder this year

[bogg]

Yea, no first rounders this year, that's in Indiana from the Brogdon deal. This could obviously be impacted by a trade that happens between now and then, but right now you'll probably see essentially the whole rotation aside from maybe Blake coming back, Davison and Begarin on essentially minimum deals, maybe the mid-level gets used, and some second-round picks getting signed to two-ways or stashed overseas.

It'll be a pretty uneventful summer unless a trade shakes everything up.