Did Lebron sneak into his mj wizards phase?

[celticsclay]

As the Lakers have sunk into tying for the worst record in the league after being a bottom ten team last year. Ive started to think about this a bit. I’ve had some debates with posters on here about whether Lebron was still a top ten player the last few years (he made all third team last year), but I think he is now more of a fringe all star. Mj on the wizards probably was not quite as bad as we remember. It was the rock fight era of the nba scoring wise, but mj on a team with less talent than the current lakers team was a mid 30’s win team. With Lebron also now battling injuries it is more similar to mj who apparently had a completely destroyed knee than teammate Etan Thomas once described as disgusting. I’m curious if others think the phases are pretty similar.

[Sophomore]

It’s hard to be sure what he’s capable of. He was declining, but if he sees the team can’t compete for a title he’s probably going to cruise and not play anywhere near his best - he’ll cruise, like Draymond did the year Curry was injured.

[celticsclay]

It’s hard to be sure what he’s capable of. He was declining, but if he sees the team can’t compete for a title he’s probably going to cruise and not play anywhere near his best - he’ll cruise, like Draymond did the year Curry was injured.

What exactly do you think he is capable of? Also is draymond doing any better or worse this year than when curry was out? I don’t really understand that comparison.

[Roy H.]

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=jordami01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=jamesle01&p2yrfrom=2023

Lebron still has the edge, but it's closer than some might expect.

[SHAQATTACK]

He plays almost no defense,  which requires more energy and harder body turns and is harder on the knees , hips and back trying to stop a man  ……he avoids rebounding and contact on ball  and usually only when it’s a game on the line will he expose his body to abuse .   IF he thinks it worth winning the game .  Otherwise he stands around , holds the ball for long moments waiting to zip a pass for an easy assist or a take a wide open jumper. 

If the man played real defense like he did back against KG , he d been hurt seriously many times  by now .  I hate his game past 5 years or more , he only acts on offense with his old type of power and jumping .   If he plays full out , he ll,get hurt nearly every game .  So he just fiddles around trying to increase his personal totals .  Wish he d go away ….far away .

[Sophomore]

It’s hard to be sure what he’s capable of. He was declining, but if he sees the team can’t compete for a title he’s probably going to cruise and not play anywhere near his best - he’ll cruise, like Draymond did the year Curry was injured.

What exactly do you think he is capable of? Also is draymond doing any better or worse this year than when curry was out? I don’t really understand that comparison.

Here’s the Draymond comparison - he basically admits he checked out the year they stunk, 2019-20. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/draymond-green-admits-he-wasnt-interested-2019-20-nba-season. The numbers bear it out, and boy did the eye test confirm. This was pretty well covered at the time - and he played a whole lot better the following year when the team was better.

What is LBJ capable of? If he doesn’t give 100%, who knows? And my claim is that he’s not going to play at 100% if the team stinks.

[celticsclay]

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=jordami01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=jamesle01&p2yrfrom=2023

Lebron still has the edge, but it's closer than some might expect.

Thanks Roy, the per 100 posessions on this is a really useful way of adjusting the rapidly different paces of the games.

[SparzWizard]

It’s hard to be sure what he’s capable of. He was declining, but if he sees the team can’t compete for a title he’s probably going to cruise and not play anywhere near his best - he’ll cruise, like Draymond did the year Curry was injured.

What exactly do you think he is capable of? Also is draymond doing any better or worse this year than when curry was out? I don’t really understand that comparison.

Here’s the Draymond comparison - he basically admits he checked out the year they stunk, 2019-20. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/draymond-green-admits-he-wasnt-interested-2019-20-nba-season. The numbers bear it out, and boy did the eye test confirm. This was pretty well covered at the time - and he played a whole lot better the following year when the team was better.

What is LBJ capable of? If he doesn’t give 100%, who knows? And my claim is that he’s not going to play at 100% if the team stinks.

That was a pretty good year to check out of anyways for Draymond. They weren't gonna contend and league shut down.

No need to play at the very best when the entire team isn't the whole year. Only gonna injure yourself more in the long run. Give the body a break

[hpantazo]

Sneak into it? He's jumped into it wholeheartedly. This Lakers team has more talent than any of those Wizards teams ever had and they still suck. If Lebron was anywhere near a top tier NBA star they would not be struggling to make the playoffs last year and scrapping the bottom this year. Anthony Davis alone should be enough to get that team to playoff contention.

Like SHAQATTACK said, he's saving what's left of his body to last a few more seasons and add to his career stats rather than to actually compete. If he tried to compete he'd be on the sidelines hobbled before you know it.

[celticsclay]

Sneak into it? He's jumped into it wholeheartedly. This Lakers team has more talent than any of those Wizards teams ever had and they still suck. If Lebron was anywhere near a top tier NBA star they would not be struggling to make the playoffs last year and scrapping the bottom this year. Anthony Davis alone should be enough to get that team to playoff contention.

Like SHAQATTACK said, he's saving what's left of his body to last a few more seasons and add to his career stats rather than to actually compete. If he tried to compete he'd be on the sidelines hobbled before you know it.

Lakers are actually playing bit more competitive since he got injured. Davis is having his best game in years tonight.

[Who]

MJ was pretty awesome for Washington. He was no longer up there with the elite wings like Kobe or Vince at that time but he was the next rung down. Sort of like Joe Johnson in 2010 versus D-Wade. MJ was Joe Johnson. Still one heck of a player.

I have been rewatching some of his Wizards games over the last couple of months. It is amazing the impact he has out there. That team was a 20-25 win level team without him and MJ had them up near .500 competing for a playoff spot. He still had a huge impact on the game and was very much a winning player. It is just his team around him stunk.

If LeBron is now in that same stage, where he has aged out as a top 10 player, as an elite player, into more a 2nd tier Joe Johnson level range like MJ did ... well, that is still a winning player. That is still a championship window. It is up to LA's management to make that work. The opportunity is there.

[Who]

I am not as convinced that LeBron is in MJ Wizards territory yet. I see the argument and I concede he might be but I find it hard to tell given how bad that roster construction is.

His shooting numbers have been awful to start the year but I wonder how much change (if any) we would see if LeBron actually had teammates around him who could make open shots which would stop opposing teams from loading up on him forcing LeBron into harder lower percentage scoring chances.

[Kernewek]

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=jordami01&p1yrfrom=2002&player_id2=jamesle01&p2yrfrom=2023

Lebron still has the edge, but it's closer than some might expect.

You're also comparing 10 games as of this writing to 60.

I don't think James is quite as washed as MJ was at this point in their careers, but I think that might have to do with the fact that over the last 10 years or so it was clear James' game is just going to age better than Jordan's did - they're just fundamentally different players.

Also absolutely forgot Rip Hamilton was on that Wizards roster.

[bello_man09]

MJ was pretty awesome for Washington. He was no longer up there with the elite wings like Kobe or Vince at that time but he was the next rung down. Sort of like Joe Johnson in 2010 versus D-Wade. MJ was Joe Johnson. Still one heck of a player.

I have been rewatching some of his Wizards games over the last couple of months. It is amazing the impact he has out there. That team was a 20-25 win level team without him and MJ had them up near .500 competing for a playoff spot. He still had a huge impact on the game and was very much a winning player. It is just his team around him stunk.

If LeBron is now in that same stage, where he has aged out as a top 10 player, as an elite player, into more a 2nd tier Joe Johnson level range like MJ did ... well, that is still a winning player. That is still a championship window. It is up to LA's management to make that work. The opportunity is there.

This !!!

[Surferdad]

He plays almost no defense,  which requires more energy and harder body turns and is harder on the knees , hips and back trying to stop a man  ……he avoids rebounding and contact on ball  and usually only when it’s a game on the line will he expose his body to abuse .   IF he thinks it worth winning the game .  Otherwise he stands around , holds the ball for long moments waiting to zip a pass for an easy assist or a take a wide open jumper. 

If the man played real defense like he did back against KG , he d been hurt seriously many times  by now .  I hate his game past 5 years or more , he only acts on offense with his old type of power and jumping .   If he plays full out , he'll get hurt nearly every game.  So he just fiddles around trying to increase his personal totals .  Wish he d go away ….far away .

That's what the eye-test tells me and Roy's stats bear this out:
Defensive Win Share is only 0.4 as compared to 2.1 for MJ

but there's more:
Offensive Win Share is 0.0 compared to MJ at 1.2
Overall Win Share is only 0.4. compared to MJ at 3.3

Now, I admit I'm stat-picking, but I'm at work and don't have much time.