Hoopshype — Top 76 players of all time

[JSD]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/75-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

The Laker bias in this list is inexplicable and laughable

[Roy H.]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/75-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/

The Laker bias in this list is inexplicable and laughable

The picks were defensible -- although not the order I'd go -- until Kobe at #8.  Nope, no freaking way. 

I'll say it loud and proud:  anybody who thinks Kobe is a better player than Tim Duncan is an absolute moron.  Sorry (not sorry) for those who are offended by that take.

[Moranis]

Top 7 is pretty solid, but Kobe at 8 is absolutely ridiculous.  He is clearly not better than Duncan, Hakeem, and Shaq.  It is at least defensible after that, but I'd honestly take Curry, Oscar, Moses, and West ahead of him as well.

[nickagneta]

More than a Laker bias, I see a recency bias. Some modern, still playing players are much too high in my opinion.

[Roy H.]

More than a Laker bias, I see a recency bias. Some modern, still playing players are much too high in my opinion.

Yeah, and like every one of these lists, Elgin Baylor is tragically underrated.

[nickagneta]

More than a Laker bias, I see a recency bias. Some modern, still playing players are much too high in my opinion.

Yeah, and like every one of these lists, Elgin Baylor is tragically underrated.

Thought Havlicek was horribly underrated there too.

Thought Kobe, Curry, Giannis and Wade a few spots too high each and Chris Paul and Kawhi Leonard WAY too high.

[Moranis]

More than a Laker bias, I see a recency bias. Some modern, still playing players are much too high in my opinion.

Yeah, and like every one of these lists, Elgin Baylor is tragically underrated.

Thought Havlicek was horribly underrated there too.

Thought Kobe, Curry, Giannis and Wade a few spots too high each and Chris Paul and Kawhi Leonard WAY too high.

I really don't have much issue with Baylor being 21.  That actually seems about right to me for him.  Am I going to object if you think he is better than the Mailman, Moses, West, KG, Dirk, or Dr. J (the guys all right in front him), not to all of them, though some I would.  They are all fairly close. 

I think Curry is undderated if anything.  Most important player and leader of 4 title teams (2 of which he was clearly the best player).  Best and most prolific shooter in league history.  Back to back MVP's, and the first unanimous winner in the sport's history.  If anything he is too low as he should pretty clearly be ahead of Durant and probably Kobe and arguably Oscar.  Curry is the 2nd best player of his generation (counting guys like TD/Shaq as a prior generation and really only counting Lebron with him because Lebron has played so darn long). 

Giannis at 22 is probably a bit high at this point, but he also appears likely to finish in the top 15 just outside of the top 10 when all is said and done, so again I wouldn't really object much to him.  Frankly, the Mailman at 15 seems very high.  I'd pretty easily take Moses and West ahead of him. 

Wade seems a bit high, but then I remember he is the 3rd best SG in history (assuming Oscar and West are treated as PG's) so coming in at 23 doesn't seem that bad.

Paul doesn't have the title so many guys have, but 28th doesn't seem crazy other than he is ahead of Stockton, but I think that is more a function that Stockton should be higher, not that Paul should be lower.  I'd probably swap Stockton and Pippen. 

Kawhi is just way too high given how few games he has actually played, though talent wise that is probably about right. 

I think Pierce and Miller are also too high.  Neither one of those guys are better than players like McHale or Allen and a fair amount of guys behind them.  And a guy like Dwight was far more impactful than those guys (he seems low to me in the 60's).  Heck, you could argue that Vince Carter was better than Reggie Miller.  I mean at least Vince was at least a top 10 player for a season, something that Reggie never was.  That is right Reggie Miller had just 2 3rd Team All-NBA and the highest he ever got in MVP voting was 13th.  He is the most overrated player in league history and I don't think it is close.  He had those masterful playoff moments which just overshadowed just how mediocre most of his career was.

[gouki88]

Some of the ones I laughed at.

Kobe ahead of Shaq and TD.
Wade ahead of David Robinson (criminally underrated).
Kawhi Leonard ahead of Nash.
Russell Westbrook and Anthony Davis ahead of Jokic ().
Willis Reed not in the top 60.
Chris Bosh ahead of Dave Cowens.
Earl Monroe ahead of Tracy McGrady.

[Neurotic Guy]

More than a Laker bias, I see a recency bias. Some modern, still playing players are much too high in my opinion.

Yeah, and like every one of these lists, Elgin Baylor is tragically underrated.

Thought Havlicek was horribly underrated there too.

Thought Kobe, Curry, Giannis and Wade a few spots too high each and Chris Paul and Kawhi Leonard WAY too high.

I really don't have much issue with Baylor being 21.  That actually seems about right to me for him.  Am I going to object if you think he is better than the Mailman, Moses, West, KG, Dirk, or Dr. J (the guys all right in front him), not to all of them, though some I would.  They are all fairly close. 

I think Curry is undderated if anything.  Most important player and leader of 4 title teams (2 of which he was clearly the best player).  Best and most prolific shooter in league history.  Back to back MVP's, and the first unanimous winner in the sport's history.  If anything he is too low as he should pretty clearly be ahead of Durant and probably Kobe and arguably Oscar.  Curry is the 2nd best player of his generation (counting guys like TD/Shaq as a prior generation and really only counting Lebron with him because Lebron has played so darn long). 

Giannis at 22 is probably a bit high at this point, but he also appears likely to finish in the top 15 just outside of the top 10 when all is said and done, so again I wouldn't really object much to him.  Frankly, the Mailman at 15 seems very high.  I'd pretty easily take Moses and West ahead of him. 

Wade seems a bit high, but then I remember he is the 3rd best SG in history (assuming Oscar and West are treated as PG's) so coming in at 23 doesn't seem that bad.

Paul doesn't have the title so many guys have, but 28th doesn't seem crazy other than he is ahead of Stockton, but I think that is more a function that Stockton should be higher, not that Paul should be lower.  I'd probably swap Stockton and Pippen. 

Kawhi is just way too high given how few games he has actually played, though talent wise that is probably about right. 

I think Pierce and Miller are also too high.  Neither one of those guys are better than players like McHale or Allen and a fair amount of guys behind them.  And a guy like Dwight was far more impactful than those guys (he seems low to me in the 60's).  Heck, you could argue that Vince Carter was better than Reggie Miller.  I mean at least Vince was at least a top 10 player for a season, something that Reggie never was.  That is right Reggie Miller had just 2 3rd Team All-NBA and the highest he ever got in MVP voting was 13th.  He is the most overrated player in league history and I don't think it is close.  He had those masterful playoff moments which just overshadowed just how mediocre most of his career was.

If there is any actual criteria beyond "top players" it may have some influence on who I though should be on the list or where people place.  For eye-popping talent I'd find it hard leave Allen Iverson out of the top 20.  For impacting a game I'd have Dennis Rodman above 65.  Chris Bosh? - I guess I need to go back and watch.  I don't know how much longevity factors in but I can't look at an NBA top player list of 76 players and think that Bill Walton wouldn't belong - despite the painfully short career.  I'd have thrown him in at 76 just to commemorate how uniquely skilled he was.

As far as Reggie Miller goes, I wouldn't have thought twice had he been left off the list, but to call the majority of his career mediocre is a bit ridiculous.  Had 10 or so seasons shooting 40+% from 3.  Had a dozen seasons over 18ppg.  Maybe not a top 76 player of all time, but far from mediocre.

[Moranis]

More than a Laker bias, I see a recency bias. Some modern, still playing players are much too high in my opinion.

Yeah, and like every one of these lists, Elgin Baylor is tragically underrated.

Thought Havlicek was horribly underrated there too.

Thought Kobe, Curry, Giannis and Wade a few spots too high each and Chris Paul and Kawhi Leonard WAY too high.

I really don't have much issue with Baylor being 21.  That actually seems about right to me for him.  Am I going to object if you think he is better than the Mailman, Moses, West, KG, Dirk, or Dr. J (the guys all right in front him), not to all of them, though some I would.  They are all fairly close. 

I think Curry is undderated if anything.  Most important player and leader of 4 title teams (2 of which he was clearly the best player).  Best and most prolific shooter in league history.  Back to back MVP's, and the first unanimous winner in the sport's history.  If anything he is too low as he should pretty clearly be ahead of Durant and probably Kobe and arguably Oscar.  Curry is the 2nd best player of his generation (counting guys like TD/Shaq as a prior generation and really only counting Lebron with him because Lebron has played so darn long). 

Giannis at 22 is probably a bit high at this point, but he also appears likely to finish in the top 15 just outside of the top 10 when all is said and done, so again I wouldn't really object much to him.  Frankly, the Mailman at 15 seems very high.  I'd pretty easily take Moses and West ahead of him. 

Wade seems a bit high, but then I remember he is the 3rd best SG in history (assuming Oscar and West are treated as PG's) so coming in at 23 doesn't seem that bad.

Paul doesn't have the title so many guys have, but 28th doesn't seem crazy other than he is ahead of Stockton, but I think that is more a function that Stockton should be higher, not that Paul should be lower.  I'd probably swap Stockton and Pippen. 

Kawhi is just way too high given how few games he has actually played, though talent wise that is probably about right. 

I think Pierce and Miller are also too high.  Neither one of those guys are better than players like McHale or Allen and a fair amount of guys behind them.  And a guy like Dwight was far more impactful than those guys (he seems low to me in the 60's).  Heck, you could argue that Vince Carter was better than Reggie Miller.  I mean at least Vince was at least a top 10 player for a season, something that Reggie never was.  That is right Reggie Miller had just 2 3rd Team All-NBA and the highest he ever got in MVP voting was 13th.  He is the most overrated player in league history and I don't think it is close.  He had those masterful playoff moments which just overshadowed just how mediocre most of his career was.

If there is any actual criteria beyond "top players" it may have some influence on who I though should be on the list or where people place.  For eye-popping talent I'd find it hard leave Allen Iverson out of the top 20.  For impacting a game I'd have Dennis Rodman above 65.  Chris Bosh? - I guess I need to go back and watch.  I don't know how much longevity factors in but I can't look at an NBA top player list of 76 players and think that Bill Walton wouldn't belong - despite the painfully short career.  I'd have thrown him in at 76 just to commemorate how uniquely skilled he was.

As far as Reggie Miller goes, I wouldn't have thought twice had he been left off the list, but to call the majority of his career mediocre is a bit ridiculous.  Had 10 or so seasons shooting 40+% from 3.  Had a dozen seasons over 18ppg.  Maybe not a top 76 player of all time, but far from mediocre.

I maintain the mediocre statement since we are talking about HOF type players.  Reggie Miller is not a top 76 greatest players in history.  3 3rd Team All NBA's.  No top 10 MVP finishes and just 2 seasons receiving votes.  Just 1 season in the top 10 for any non-shooting stat (he was 8th in ppg in the 89-90 season).  He is obviously one of the greatest shooters in league history, but being a great shooter isn't enough for me even with some brilliant playoff moments.  A very good offensive player as a result of his elite shooter, but a very poor defender.    He played a long time which is a plus, but it also increases his all time totals such that he is 25th all time in total points scored.  As an example, I'd take Ray Allen and Vince Carter, as comparable, but better players and I'm not sure they should be top 76 players either, especially when they didn't have guys like Walton, Dumars, DJ, Gilmore, Dantley, Sam Jones, Webber, Lanier, Thurmond, etc. on the list. 

[RPGenerate]

Kobe ain't top 10. that's for sure.

[nickagneta]

Kobe ain't top 10. that's for sure.

I think Kobe is getting the "he just died tragically young" vote here. As his death fades farther into history, I think Kobe will fall down to the 11th-13th spot were he belongs.

[Moranis]

Kobe ain't top 10. that's for sure.

I think Kobe is getting the "he just died tragically young" vote here. As his death fades farther into history, I think Kobe will fall down to the 11th-13th spot were he belongs.

I have him 14, though I'd listen to arguments on 3 guys behind him:

Roughly in order though I haven't analyzed fully - Lebron, Kareem, Jordan, Bill, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Moses, Oscar, Curry

The 3 guys behind him are West, Durant, and the Mailman.  Plus you have Giannis climbing up the list at an incredible rate of speed.

[bdm860]

Kobe ain't top 10. that's for sure.

I think Kobe is getting the "he just died tragically young" vote here. As his death fades farther into history, I think Kobe will fall down to the 11th-13th spot were he belongs.

I don't think its his death that's doing it for him, I think it's more of a generational thing now.

Hanging out over on Reddit alot, seems like there's a large contingent of people who think the torch was passed from Jordan to Kobe to LeBron, that the 2000's decade was ruled by Kobe the way Jordan ruled the 90's.  And this seemed to be the sentiment before Kobe's death.

It's really interesting too, to hear the narrative change.  People my age and older probably remember Kobe being being the source of the problems (selfish teammate/player), but now those same issues are retold with Kobe as the victim.

Shaq leaving LA.  Was Kobe's fault, now Shaq's fault.

Teammates not getting along with Kobe.  That was Kobe being selfish, now it's Kobe was the only hard worker.

None of Kobe's teammates going to his wedding, his parents not going to his wedding.  That's because Kobe was a jerk.  Now it's because they were all jealous.

Kobe suing his parents.  It was because Kobe was a jerk.  Then it turned into his parents just wanting to profit off him

Kobe and Karl Malone beef.  That started when Kobe was waving off picks from Malone at Kobe's first All-Star game, so Kobe being a selfish prick.  Now it's because Karl Malone hit on Kobe's wife several years later.

Rape case.  Went from questions about the situation, to "what rape case?"

But that's all digressing from the point.  I really think it's a generational thing.  To a lot of fans born in the 90's and on, Kobe was their NBA god.  Less to do with his death, more to due with the "legend." The 2000's being more of an ensemble of NBA stars (Duncan, KG, Kidd, Kobe, Dirk, Nash, McGrady, Iverson, Shaq, etc.) as opposed to 1-2 dominate stars (LeBron in the '10s, Jordan in the 90's, Bird/Magic in the 80's), probably helps too, where I think people go back now and fill in Kobe when they play the name association game with the 00's, and this contributes to the overrating of his game too.

[Jvalin]

With all due respect, Tony Parker should be nowhere near all-time lists. He was an undersized, score-first slasher and a below average shooter. Not sure what's so impressive about that. If it weren't for Timmy and Manu, I bet he would have been considered just an average starter. I believe he's massively overrated.

Agreed about Kobe. Personally speaking, I don't even think he's a lock for the top 15.