Author Topic: We need to be deeper this year.  (Read 4607 times)

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Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2022, 08:40:01 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Most teams do not have 4 fringe players on their bench and very few even have 3.

I will just pick one for example, Golden State.  The end of their bench was Juan Toscano-Anderson, Damion Lee, Moses Moody, Andre Iguodala, and
Jonathan Kuminga.  So 3 fringe NBA players, one near spent vet, and a promising but not ready for NBA rookie.

If Gallinari didn't get hurt, we would have had probably the best 1-10 in the league.  All solid NBA proven players.  Then we have Vonleh (probably), Hauser, and Kornet, all players with NBA experience.  These guys are just fine for 13-15.  That of course leaves slots 11 and 12 (plus or minus).  I agree, it would be nice to fill these two slots with an established vet wing and an established vet center.  I believe Vonleh may actually be fine in the role of a 11th or 12th man big so that may be covered (then we can find another scrub for the 14th slot).  And Hauser may surprise, I am not expecting that but he has had flashes.

The problem is that it takes two to tango as they say.  Everyone seems to make the assumptions that these FAs or trades are right there on the table and it is only a question of the Celtics pulling the trigger.  That they are being cheap or maybe just demonstrating poor judgement or something.  Just sign Dwight Howard.  Just use a TPE and trade for vet wing xxxx.  I don't see it that way.  I believe they will do something but they are waiting as Dwight Howard doesn't want to play in Boston and no team is offering a decent vet wing for peanuts right now.  I think many of the remaining viable FAs are waiting too.

I am not worried or complaining about this roster depth.  I think they are fine.  Losing Gallinari is an issue and may require some change of plan but give it some time.  No need to be rash here.  We are fine and will likely make some moves along the way to get even better.

Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2022, 09:08:01 AM »

Online Moranis

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Most teams do not have 4 fringe players on their bench and very few even have 3.

I will just pick one for example, Golden State.  The end of their bench was Juan Toscano-Anderson, Damion Lee, Moses Moody, Andre Iguodala, and
Jonathan Kuminga.  So 3 fringe NBA players, one near spent vet, and a promising but not ready for NBA rookie.
Moody, like Kuminga, was a lottery pick.  Toscano-Anderson just finished his 3rd year and has started 28 games in his career averaging over 17 mpg.  He signed a contract with the Lakers in the off season.  He is no where near a fringe NBA player.  Lee just finished his 5th year and has been a regular rotation player, including 53 starts, averaging  21 mpg in his career.  He isn't a fringe NBA player and both he and Toscano-Anderson basically played in every game they were healthy for the Warriors.  They weren't just the occasional player.  Lee signed with the Suns, which will be his 3rd team.  Iggy is obviously a spent vet, who they brought in for leadership.  He was a fringe NBA player last year, but he was the only 1 on the Warriors roster.

If Gallinari didn't get hurt, we would have had probably the best 1-10 in the league.  All solid NBA proven players.  Then we have Vonleh (probably), Hauser, and Kornet, all players with NBA experience.  These guys are just fine for 13-15.  That of course leaves slots 11 and 12 (plus or minus).  I agree, it would be nice to fill these two slots with an established vet wing and an established vet center.  I believe Vonleh may actually be fine in the role of a 11th or 12th man big so that may be covered (then we can find another scrub for the 14th slot).  And Hauser may surprise, I am not expecting that but he has had flashes.
I just disagree that guys like Vonleh that have been out of the league for years and weren't very good when they played are NBA caliber players.  Maybe he surprises, and it is fine to have one or maybe 2 of those guys on the roster, but Boston will have 5 of them.  The Gallo injury aside, the back end of the roster has been terribly managed.  It was unacceptable for Boston to not use the TPE with that many open spots on the roster.  To not be willing to bring in actual NBA players, also unacceptable.  Boston is treating the bench like they are rebuilding team, not a team actually allegedly trying to win a championship.  I also disagree with the idea that Boston had the best 1-10 in the league pre-Gallo.  There are several teams that are better 1-10 and all of them have better players 11-15 (on the whole).  As an example, Golden State's top 10 players this year are: Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Dray, Wiseman, Poole, DiVincenzo, Kuminga, Green, Looney, and #11 is Moody who is a 2nd year lottery pick that just turned 20 and started 11 games last year.  They have a rookie 1st round pick after that.  That is a better deeper team than Boston, but they do have some open roster spots and like Boston should use them.  The main competition in the East, i.e. the Bucks, are also deeper 1 to 10 and have a better back end of the roster.  Boston's real advantage on teams is the 4-7 spots.  Very few teams have the quality Boston does there i.e. Smart, Rob, Al, and White, but most of the real competition are better collectively 1-3 and 8-15.  The 1-3 is hard to fix, the 8-15 is not.  That is the issue.

The problem is that it takes two to tango as they say.  Everyone seems to make the assumptions that these FAs or trades are right there on the table and it is only a question of the Celtics pulling the trigger.  That they are being cheap or maybe just demonstrating poor judgement or something.  Just sign Dwight Howard.  Just use a TPE and trade for vet wing xxxx.  I don't see it that way.  I believe they will do something but they are waiting as Dwight Howard doesn't want to play in Boston and no team is offering a decent vet wing for peanuts right now.  I think many of the remaining viable FAs are waiting too.

I am not worried or complaining about this roster depth.  I think they are fine.  Losing Gallinari is an issue and may require some change of plan but give it some time.  No need to be rash here.  We are fine and will likely make some moves along the way to get even better.
Boston has 2 centers on the roster and both of them will probably start.  Boston has 2 SF's that you could actually play meaningful minutes too, and like the centers, they both will likely start.  There isn't a pure PG on the team either.  A bunch of combo or scoring PG's, not a guy that is a pure PG.  Boston, even before Gallo went down, had significant holes on the roster. 
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Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2022, 09:45:32 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Yeah, you say tomato, Toscano-Anderson is 29 and has played in 139 NBA games starting 28.  Vonleh is 27 and has played in 339 and started 171.  I am not convinced that Vonleh is more fringe.

I agree on the concern about the forward/Sf depth.  Right now it is Tatum and then Hauser as the only true SFs.  Brown is a SG/wing who can play SF/wing and Brogdon is a combo guard who can play SG/wing so we have some options but I agree there is a need for a vet forward/wing type player.  I don't see this as a fatal flaw though.  It could be if Brogdon misses time, Tatum or Brown too but if Tatum and Brown miss time, the team can't replace them in any case.

I am not concerned even one bit that we don't have a true PG.  Most teams these days play with a combo guard as the ball handler.  We actually have 4 players who can play that role at a legit NBA level.  I do not see that as the least bit of a problem, total non-issue for me.

Big is a concern now that Gallinari is hurt.  We are thin there now for sure.  Overall though, I am far less worried about this roster than you are.

Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2022, 09:51:48 AM »

Offline stes

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Bring Ponitka and Balcerowski from the Eurobasket semi-finalist. Ponitka might backup the wing positions (imo somewhat similar to Josh Richardson) and Balcerowski is 7”2 and can shoot threes. Sign them before Poland wins the entire tournament and they play themselves out of our reach   ;) also: do boju, Polska!

Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2022, 10:15:58 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Yep, except the guys Brad has brought in are mostly unplayable.
Small thing
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2022, 10:27:02 AM »

Online Moranis

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Yeah, you say tomato, Toscano-Anderson is 29 and has played in 139 NBA games starting 28.  Vonleh is 27 and has played in 339 and started 171.  I am not convinced that Vonleh is more fringe.

I agree on the concern about the forward/Sf depth.  Right now it is Tatum and then Hauser as the only true SFs.  Brown is a SG/wing who can play SF/wing and Brogdon is a combo guard who can play SG/wing so we have some options but I agree there is a need for a vet forward/wing type player.  I don't see this as a fatal flaw though.  It could be if Brogdon misses time, Tatum or Brown too but if Tatum and Brown miss time, the team can't replace them in any case.

I am not concerned even one bit that we don't have a true PG.  Most teams these days play with a combo guard as the ball handler.  We actually have 4 players who can play that role at a legit NBA level.  I do not see that as the least bit of a problem, total non-issue for me.

Big is a concern now that Gallinari is hurt.  We are thin there now for sure.  Overall though, I am far less worried about this roster than you are.
I have a hard time comparing a guy that played in 73 games (starting 6) at 13.6 mpg for the NBA champions and a guy that did not play in the league at all last year and only played 11 total minutes the season before that, and who wasn't injured.  Vonleh has shown himself to be a guy that didn't belong in the league by the simple fact that no one signed him.  Even his "good" year in NY on a veteran minimum didn't warrant the Knicks bringing him back.  They are just a different class of player i.e. one is a low level rotational player, the other doesn't belong in the league. 

If Vonleh makes the Celtics, it is an indictment on just how bad Boston's roster is, not that Vonleh is good. 

Basically since the moment Brogdon was acquired, Boston has treated the off season like it was a rebuilding team and not a team competing for a championship.  It refused to use the TPE when players were clearly available.  It floated its 2nd best player in a trade.  It has 5 open roster spots, which apparently it is content to fill with undrafted or otherwise dregs.  These are not the actions of a team that is contending.  They are the actions of a team that is rebuilding, but Boston isn't rebuilding, and that is the problem.
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Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2022, 11:04:28 AM »

Offline mobilija

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At the end of last year Brad stockpiled the last 5 roster spots with scrubs w/ movable contracts. Those turned in to Brogdon.

To begin this year it looks like Brad is stockpiling a slightly upgraded class of scrubs with more veteran experience and some upside. Regardless of how that "upside" turns out, I wouldn't assume its meant to be a finished product. Since our new GM arrived, he has shown that he is constantly upgrading the roster. I expect our cheap labor, to either have a modicum of impact but more likely to be trade fodder for an upgrade.

We have a backend of mostly D level players, people are upset that more of em aren't C level. Based on history of this front office, as long as the core is healthy, I expect them to make moves that they are a contending team and to turn these players into a B level player and/or a sprinkling of C level players.

That being said....we'd be better of having used the Fournier TPE....duh

Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2022, 11:04:30 AM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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I’m going to wait until camp before I start hand wringing over the deep bench. I know it’s the slow season, but I just am not worried about it. Maybe I will be at the trade deadline if a couple of not Tatum or not Brown guys go down or are severely underperforming.

For now I will be content knowing that Hauser will be this year’s Max Strus - remember that fringe NBA player that we cut off a non-contender? Or Duncan Robinson, another fringe player?

And Kornet will be Moses Brown, the fringe guy that didn’t even play here that a lot of people were excited about. Maybe he can be all that Brad seems to think he is and be a Whiteside for a year or two before slowly fading away after getting paid?

Broderick can be this year’s Javonte, where everyone wishes we had  kept him instead of letting him get away after he scores 12 points in a playoff game for the Nuggets or wherever he ends up. Maybe it will be the Bulls and we can really start wondering “what do they know that we don’t?” Or “why didn’t Ime play this guy?!?”

Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2022, 03:29:23 PM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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Bring Ponitka and Balcerowski from the Eurobasket semi-finalist. Ponitka might backup the wing positions (imo somewhat similar to Josh Richardson) and Balcerowski is 7”2 and can shoot threes. Sign them before Poland wins the entire tournament and they play themselves out of our reach   ;) also: do boju, Polska!

Or maybe Yabu Or Schroeder as they may win euro MVP  ;D

More seriously we can wait the buyout market if it doesn't work with Hauser and Vonleh. We may be one of the hottest destination for ring chaser. Maybe à Richardson back as Brad seems to love some old solid players comebacks

Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2022, 04:46:51 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Bring Ponitka and Balcerowski from the Eurobasket semi-finalist. Ponitka might backup the wing positions (imo somewhat similar to Josh Richardson) and Balcerowski is 7”2 and can shoot threes. Sign them before Poland wins the entire tournament and they play themselves out of our reach   ;) also: do boju, Polska!

Or maybe Yabu Or Schroeder as they may win euro MVP  ;D

More seriously we can wait the buyout market if it doesn't work with Hauser and Vonleh. We may be one of the hottest destination for ring chaser. Maybe à Richardson back as Brad seems to love some old solid players comebacks

I think everyone here would love Richardson back. He had a nice stay here.  We know Malcolm will be hurt at some point - good depth. I think patience regarding the big. 

Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2022, 05:07:51 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Bring Ponitka and Balcerowski from the Eurobasket semi-finalist. Ponitka might backup the wing positions (imo somewhat similar to Josh Richardson) and Balcerowski is 7”2 and can shoot threes. Sign them before Poland wins the entire tournament and they play themselves out of our reach   ;) also: do boju, Polska!

Or maybe Yabu Or Schroeder as they may win euro MVP  ;D

More seriously we can wait the buyout market if it doesn't work with Hauser and Vonleh. We may be one of the hottest destination for ring chaser. Maybe à Richardson back as Brad seems to love some old solid players comebacks

Exactly. I’d wager that Brad is going to wait and see how the two way players look and then explore the trade/buyout market. Makes sense.
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Re: We need to be deeper this year.
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2022, 08:57:39 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Celtics probably have the deepest guard rotation in the NBA.

I'm worried about the bigs though. If Horford is the starting PF, who is the backup center?
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