Patriots 2022 Season

[celticsclay]

I honestly think Moranis is out of his element in this conversation. I don’t think he has put in the time watching the Patriots. Look at their first 3 SB runs. The offense was anemic quite frequently. People started criticizing Bill after getting rid of Lawyer Malloy and losing the first game of the season to Bledsoe’s Bills 31-0. 5 Super Bowl wins later, the haters are still around.

Oh absolutely. I don’t blame people for forgetting but Tom Brady had 145 yards passing in the first victory against the rams and the defense forced 3 turnovers including an interception returned for a touchdown. Brady was not a good quarterback at that point (and I believe he has even come out and said something along those lines) Anyone saying Bill couldn’t have won that game with even a Trent Dilfer type does not remember the game or is being intellectually dishonest.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I honestly think Moranis is out of his element in this conversation. I don’t think he has put in the time watching the Patriots. Look at their first 3 SB runs. The offense was anemic quite frequently. People started criticizing Bill after getting rid of Lawyer Malloy and losing the first game of the season to Bledsoe’s Bills 31-0. 5 Super Bowl wins later, the haters are still around.

Those were clearly his best coaching jobs, but they had Pioli then, a lot of holdovers from Parcells, and with Bledsoe they weren't good at all with the same roster (even the first Super Bowl year they were 0-2 with Bledsoe starting).

Bill obviously help facilitate making Brady who he became, which is why I don't think New England would have won 6 Super Bowls with Brady, but no Bill, but I do absolutely think that Bill wouldn't have won any Super Bowls without Brady.  His track record in every season without Brady supports that position.  Just not a lot of winning going on.

Bledsoe got them into the Super Bowl by beating the Steelers. I think your memory has faded regarding the Pats, which is ok because you’re a Ravens fan. That being said, Im not going to claim that I know about Baltimore, because I haven’t watched everyone of their games since 2000.

Name a better GM than Bill over the last 20 years.

[celticsclay]

I honestly think Moranis is out of his element in this conversation. I don’t think he has put in the time watching the Patriots. Look at their first 3 SB runs. The offense was anemic quite frequently. People started criticizing Bill after getting rid of Lawyer Malloy and losing the first game of the season to Bledsoe’s Bills 31-0. 5 Super Bowl wins later, the haters are still around.

Those were clearly his best coaching jobs, but they had Pioli then, a lot of holdovers from Parcells, and with Bledsoe they weren't good at all with the same roster (even the first Super Bowl year they were 0-2 with Bledsoe starting).

Bill obviously help facilitate making Brady who he became, which is why I don't think New England would have won 6 Super Bowls with Brady, but no Bill, but I do absolutely think that Bill wouldn't have won any Super Bowls without Brady.  His track record in every season without Brady supports that position.  Just not a lot of winning going on.

Bledsoe got them into the Super Bowl by beating the Steelers. I think your memory has faded regarding the Pats, which is ok because you’re a Ravens fan. That being said, Im not going to claim that I know about Baltimore, because I haven’t watched everyone of their games since 2000.

Name a better GM than Bill over the last 20 years.

I think you have a pretty good point here. I watch a ton of football and play a lot of fantasy, but I certainly couldn’t go back and tell you how good the quarterback play was from 2002-2005 for the dolphins or any other team (unless they were playing the patriots that game). And you can go back and look at box scores but a lot of times a player ends up with misleading numbers cause they get 140 yards late in the game against a prevent defense. All that being said I don’t think anyone can look at Brady’s first super bowl and think it was entirely him (or that bill would not have won with tons of other qbs that year). Brady had 145 yards and that includes about 40 on the last drive to set up the field goal. Yes it was clutch he did that, but if they had had better passing and more aggressive play calling they probably wouldn’t have even been in that position cause the defense played so good with a. Defensive td and three turnovers.

[Moranis]

I honestly think Moranis is out of his element in this conversation. I don’t think he has put in the time watching the Patriots. Look at their first 3 SB runs. The offense was anemic quite frequently. People started criticizing Bill after getting rid of Lawyer Malloy and losing the first game of the season to Bledsoe’s Bills 31-0. 5 Super Bowl wins later, the haters are still around.

Those were clearly his best coaching jobs, but they had Pioli then, a lot of holdovers from Parcells, and with Bledsoe they weren't good at all with the same roster (even the first Super Bowl year they were 0-2 with Bledsoe starting).

Bill obviously help facilitate making Brady who he became, which is why I don't think New England would have won 6 Super Bowls with Brady, but no Bill, but I do absolutely think that Bill wouldn't have won any Super Bowls without Brady.  His track record in every season without Brady supports that position.  Just not a lot of winning going on.

Bledsoe got them into the Super Bowl by beating the Steelers. I think your memory has faded regarding the Pats, which is ok because you’re a Ravens fan. That being said, Im not going to claim that I know about Baltimore, because I haven’t watched everyone of their games since 2000.

Name a better GM than Bill over the last 20 years.

I recalled Bledsoe coming in, wasn't sure when.  It was 7-3 New England and they had the ball when Brady went out towards the end of the 1st half.  Brady ended up with more passing yards on less attempts than Bledsoe even though Bledsoe played slightly more than half the game.

Their first game of the playoffs that year Brady had a 312 yard game as they beat Oakland in OT and Brady had a masterful 4th quarter and OT in that game.    They don't win that game with Bledsoe.  I mean New England was down 13-3 and got the ball with 12:29 left.  Brady proceeds to go 9 of 9 for 57 yards and ran it in from 6 yards.  They got it back later in the 4th and went on a 2 minute drill to get the game tying FG.  In OT, Brady was 8 for 8 for 43 yards and led them down inside the 10 before Vinatieri kicked the 23 yard game winner. 

There is no question, the early years Brady was much more of a game manager, but when they needed the big play, Brady delivered it when most QB's, even quality ones like Bledsoe would not have been able to.  Even in that Super Bowl, after the Rams had come all the way back, New England got the ball with 1:21 left in the game and no timeouts.  They were on their own 17.  Just over a minute later, New England is kicking the game winning FG from the St. Louis 30.  Brady had 3 spikes on that drive, but was otherwise 5 for 5 for 53 yards.  Vinatieri nails the 48 yard FG on 3rd down as time expires.  New England doesn't win that game without Brady.

[nickagneta]

How many SBs did the Pats' win due to long FGs being made? Kinda helps QB legacies having a kicker win the game for you.

Ask Jim Kelly about that.

That first SB win for the Pats' was won on the foot of Adam Vinatieri when you look at what he did in the playoffs games leading up to that first SB and in the SB.

[Goldstar88]

I honestly think Moranis is out of his element in this conversation. I don’t think he has put in the time watching the Patriots. Look at their first 3 SB runs. The offense was anemic quite frequently. People started criticizing Bill after getting rid of Lawyer Malloy and losing the first game of the season to Bledsoe’s Bills 31-0. 5 Super Bowl wins later, the haters are still around.

Those were clearly his best coaching jobs, but they had Pioli then, a lot of holdovers from Parcells, and with Bledsoe they weren't good at all with the same roster (even the first Super Bowl year they were 0-2 with Bledsoe starting).

Bill obviously help facilitate making Brady who he became, which is why I don't think New England would have won 6 Super Bowls with Brady, but no Bill, but I do absolutely think that Bill wouldn't have won any Super Bowls without Brady.  His track record in every season without Brady supports that position.  Just not a lot of winning going on.

I mostly agree with this. I think in the earlier years when the Patriots had some of their best defenses in franchise history, Bill could have won a SB with another QB. Baltimore got a ring with Flacco and Denver with a shell of Payton Manning. It’s very rare, but does happen. I also believe that if Sean Payton or Andy Reid had Tom Brady for 20 years, they would have had 4 or 5 SB wins. Belichick is a defensive genius, greatest of all time in that regard, but he’s always needed a very good OC to take care of that side of the field. Bill’s winning percentage without Tom is under 48% at this point. Tom’s winning percentage without Bill is over 75%.

[nickagneta]

Where Bill's genius came into play most was as a GM convincing Brady to get paid well below levels of the other best QBs in the league allowing Bill to build SB winning rosters under the salary cap rules

When you speak to NBA historians, those in the league or who have covered the league for decades, in commenting on Belichick the GM and coach, they say Belichick is the best ever because he could do what he did under rules(draft, salary cap, 32 team league) that were there to promote parity in the league and prevent teams from being the best in the league for long periods of time.

And just about every other team in the league has gone up and down the power rankings over those 20 years except the Patriots. You couldn't do that without the best GM, the best coach and the best QB, who happened to be massively underpaid, during that time period.

[celticsclay]

The real question for me is why are people so eager to tear down bill and diminish his accomplishments?

[Donoghus]

The real question for me is why are people so eager to tear down bill and diminish his accomplishments?

It's not obvious?

I just have to laugh at some of this nonsense at this point.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/.amp/nfl/pioli-patriots-brady-and-2000-draft

Another correction- it wasn’t Pioli, but Bobby Grier that was the GM when Brady was selected. That being said, Brady was a collective decision after he fell to them. Bill is a detail freak that was involved in everything. Interestingly, they didn’t need a QB with 3 on the roster (including a Pro Bowler with a SB trip on his resume).

Drafting is one element of the job. Finding under-appreciated players in the league and on waivers counts as well.

Also, I was devastated when Belichick’s Browns beat the Pats in the playoffs.

I think you can say that he had a string of bad drafts (not including last year). Going beyond that is hyperbole. He drafted Brady, Edelman, Wilfork, Mankins, McCourty, Hightower, and Gronk. His record speaks for itself.

The haters can’t name one better GM in the league.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I honestly think Moranis is out of his element in this conversation. I don’t think he has put in the time watching the Patriots. Look at their first 3 SB runs. The offense was anemic quite frequently. People started criticizing Bill after getting rid of Lawyer Malloy and losing the first game of the season to Bledsoe’s Bills 31-0. 5 Super Bowl wins later, the haters are still around.

Those were clearly his best coaching jobs, but they had Pioli then, a lot of holdovers from Parcells, and with Bledsoe they weren't good at all with the same roster (even the first Super Bowl year they were 0-2 with Bledsoe starting).

Bill obviously help facilitate making Brady who he became, which is why I don't think New England would have won 6 Super Bowls with Brady, but no Bill, but I do absolutely think that Bill wouldn't have won any Super Bowls without Brady.  His track record in every season without Brady supports that position.  Just not a lot of winning going on.

Bledsoe got them into the Super Bowl by beating the Steelers. I think your memory has faded regarding the Pats, which is ok because you’re a Ravens fan. That being said, Im not going to claim that I know about Baltimore, because I haven’t watched everyone of their games since 2000.

Name a better GM than Bill over the last 20 years.

I recalled Bledsoe coming in, wasn't sure when.  It was 7-3 New England and they had the ball when Brady went out towards the end of the 1st half.  Brady ended up with more passing yards on less attempts than Bledsoe even though Bledsoe played slightly more than half the game.

Their first game of the playoffs that year Brady had a 312 yard game as they beat Oakland in OT and Brady had a masterful 4th quarter and OT in that game.    They don't win that game with Bledsoe.  I mean New England was down 13-3 and got the ball with 12:29 left.  Brady proceeds to go 9 of 9 for 57 yards and ran it in from 6 yards.  They got it back later in the 4th and went on a 2 minute drill to get the game tying FG.  In OT, Brady was 8 for 8 for 43 yards and led them down inside the 10 before Vinatieri kicked the 23 yard game winner. 

There is no question, the early years Brady was much more of a game manager, but when they needed the big play, Brady delivered it when most QB's, even quality ones like Bledsoe would not have been able to.  Even in that Super Bowl, after the Rams had come all the way back, New England got the ball with 1:21 left in the game and no timeouts.  They were on their own 17.  Just over a minute later, New England is kicking the game winning FG from the St. Louis 30.  Brady had 3 spikes on that drive, but was otherwise 5 for 5 for 53 yards.  Vinatieri nails the 48 yard FG on 3rd down as time expires.  New England doesn't win that game without Brady.

Your memory is incomplete:

“Bledsoe filled that role well for the Patriots late in the first
half when Brady went down with an injured left leg. Four plays
later he threw an 11-yard TD pass to David Patten to give the
Patriots a 14-3 lead.

It was New England's only offensive touchdown of the game.”

https://www.espn.com/nfl/recap?gameId=220127023

You bring up things like yards, but points matter and the Pats needed Bledsoe to win that Super Bowl. I’m not surprised that a fan of another team wouldn’t remember things how they actually occurred.

[celticsclay]

I honestly think Moranis is out of his element in this conversation. I don’t think he has put in the time watching the Patriots. Look at their first 3 SB runs. The offense was anemic quite frequently. People started criticizing Bill after getting rid of Lawyer Malloy and losing the first game of the season to Bledsoe’s Bills 31-0. 5 Super Bowl wins later, the haters are still around.

Those were clearly his best coaching jobs, but they had Pioli then, a lot of holdovers from Parcells, and with Bledsoe they weren't good at all with the same roster (even the first Super Bowl year they were 0-2 with Bledsoe starting).

Bill obviously help facilitate making Brady who he became, which is why I don't think New England would have won 6 Super Bowls with Brady, but no Bill, but I do absolutely think that Bill wouldn't have won any Super Bowls without Brady.  His track record in every season without Brady supports that position.  Just not a lot of winning going on.

Bledsoe got them into the Super Bowl by beating the Steelers. I think your memory has faded regarding the Pats, which is ok because you’re a Ravens fan. That being said, Im not going to claim that I know about Baltimore, because I haven’t watched everyone of their games since 2000.

Name a better GM than Bill over the last 20 years.

I recalled Bledsoe coming in, wasn't sure when.  It was 7-3 New England and they had the ball when Brady went out towards the end of the 1st half.  Brady ended up with more passing yards on less attempts than Bledsoe even though Bledsoe played slightly more than half the game.

Their first game of the playoffs that year Brady had a 312 yard game as they beat Oakland in OT and Brady had a masterful 4th quarter and OT in that game.    They don't win that game with Bledsoe.  I mean New England was down 13-3 and got the ball with 12:29 left.  Brady proceeds to go 9 of 9 for 57 yards and ran it in from 6 yards.  They got it back later in the 4th and went on a 2 minute drill to get the game tying FG.  In OT, Brady was 8 for 8 for 43 yards and led them down inside the 10 before Vinatieri kicked the 23 yard game winner. 

There is no question, the early years Brady was much more of a game manager, but when they needed the big play, Brady delivered it when most QB's, even quality ones like Bledsoe would not have been able to.  Even in that Super Bowl, after the Rams had come all the way back, New England got the ball with 1:21 left in the game and no timeouts.  They were on their own 17.  Just over a minute later, New England is kicking the game winning FG from the St. Louis 30.  Brady had 3 spikes on that drive, but was otherwise 5 for 5 for 53 yards.  Vinatieri nails the 48 yard FG on 3rd down as time expires.  New England doesn't win that game without Brady.

Your memory is incomplete:

“Bledsoe filled that role well for the Patriots late in the first
half when Brady went down with an injured left leg. Four plays
later he threw an 11-yard TD pass to David Patten to give the
Patriots a 14-3 lead.

It was New England's only offensive touchdown of the game.”

https://www.espn.com/nfl/recap?gameId=220127023

You bring up things like yards, but points matter and the Pats needed Bledsoe to win that Super Bowl. I’m not surprised that a fan of another team wouldn’t remember things how they actually occurred.

You are doing the lords work against some nonsense that probably doesn’t even warrant a response at this point. I’ll keep giving you tps.

[Donoghus]

Special teams was probably the #1 factor that the Pats won that AFC title game.   It wasn't the offense although that first Bledsoe drive was goose bumps.

[celticsclay]

The real question for me is why are people so eager to tear down bill and diminish his accomplishments?

It's not obvious?

I just have to laugh at some of this nonsense at this point.

I’ll be honest I am not exactly sure. If it was a die hard Brady fan I would understand why, but I don’t think the people arguing about how crappy bill is are Brady fans ( although now it is just one person being increasingly silly and mixing of games and facts). I could also see some people disliking bill cause he comes off like a grinch that thinks he is smarter than everyone. I really couldn’t say for sure.

[celticsclay]

Special teams was probably the #1 factor that the Past won that AFC title game.   It wasn't the offense although that first Bledsoe drive was goose bumps.

Troy brown was incredible at that point