Changed my mind on JB for Durant trade

[nickagneta]

I think I probably shocked some posters here when I said I was for a Jaylen Brown for Kevin Durant trade. I thought Durant would all but guarantee a title and that it was worth the reduciing of the Celtics championship window by some years to make sure the team at least got one title.

Durant is better than Brown, has title winning experience is a top 2 or 3 offensive weapon in the league. This team needed better offense to win it all.

But, one thing I didn't take into consideration was Durant's history of sourcing quick in places he lands. The guy is a diva and if things aren't 1000% to his liking, he starts drama and asks out

Now if all you had to give up to acquire that diva like behavior is money, like GSW and Brooklyn did, that's one thing. But when you have to give up a talent of Brown's quality, other players and draft capital, that's something different altogether.

People say you have to move Brown if he might leave in two years. But what about if you move Brown and he never had any intention of leaving just to trade for a guy who's history shows he might be asking to leave in a couple years? Does that make any sense.

Brown wasn't moved for Kawhi because the math was one possible title opportunity wasn't worth contending for a decade. Since then the C's have been to two ECFs and a Finals and are the favorites to win it next year. They clearly have been contending and look to be for much longer with Brown.

Durant's age and volatility to leave has changed my mind.

#JKJB

I should never have strayed.

[vjcsmoke]

Really?  I don't think you're wrong on either count.

A> Yes Durant is a mercurial player/personality.
B> Yes Durant can bring a championship to Beantown.

If the trade works out, maybe Durant stays in Boston only a couple of years before demanding yet another trade.  But so what?
The Raptors successfully 'rented' Kawhi Lenoard and got a championship out of it.
Is that really so bad if you get a couple of titles out of it?

[tenn_smoothie]

We didn't build this mostly homegrown team to win one title. I am much more interested in multiple titles.
Every Celtic championship group other than Garnett's won multiple titles.
Since when do we gut a young, talented team for a rent-a-malcontent to help us squeeze out just one.

[slamtheking]

I think I probably shocked some posters here when I said I was for a Jaylen Brown for Kevin Durant trade. I thought Durant would all but guarantee a title and that it was worth the reduciing of the Celtics championship window by some years to make sure the team at least got one title.

Durant is better than Brown, has title winning experience is a top 2 or 3 offensive weapon in the league. This team needed better offense to win it all.

But, one thing I didn't take into consideration was Durant's history of sourcing quick in places he lands. The guy is a diva and if things aren't 1000% to his liking, he starts drama and asks out

Now if all you had to give up to acquire that diva like behavior is money, like GSW and Brooklyn did, that's one thing. But when you have to give up a talent of Brown's quality, other players and draft capital, that's something different altogether.

People say you have to move Brown if he might leave in two years. But what about if you move Brown and he never had any intention of leaving just to trade for a guy who's history shows he might be asking to leave in a couple years? Does that make any sense.

Brown wasn't moved for Kawhi because the math was one possible title opportunity wasn't worth contending for a decade. Since then the C's have been to two ECFs and a Finals and are the favorites to win it next year. They clearly have been contending and look to be for much longer with Brown.

Durant's age and volatility to leave has changed my mind.

#JKJB

I should never have strayed.

I was always of this opinion.  welcome back to team JKJB Nick

[Birdman]

It’s all about championships!! Got ask yourself, will Brown bring us some? Maybe..would Durant? Probably..but got to have a nice bench & role players to help..I wouldn’t trade the farm for Durant but Brown & some pieces, yes

[Neurotic Guy]

We didn't build this mostly homegrown team to win one title. I am much more interested in multiple titles.
Every Celtic championship group other than Garnett's won multiple titles.
Since when do we gut a young, talented team for a rent-a-malcontent to help us squeeze out just one.

There’s no question that if the choice is multiple titles with the mostly homegrown team v. 1 or 2 titles with KD you go with choice A.  But of course nothing is certain.  I lean to wanting to keep JB but I also believe that multiple title teams require the presence of an all-time talent. Has there ever been a multi-title dynasty without an all-time great / top 5 player in his prime?  Yes, Isiah is top 30-ish all-time and was top 5-ish in the league in his prime.

Will JT be that player?

[Birdman]

Brown is a Kris Middleton type a guy.. he can’t be THE GUY to win a title, he have to be the 2nd or 3rd guy

[Moranis]

It’s all about championships!! Got ask yourself, will Brown bring us some? Maybe..would Durant? Probably..but got to have a nice bench & role players to help..I wouldn’t trade the farm for Durant but Brown & some pieces, yes

Brown, Smart, Grant, and draft picks for Durant and Curry is a trade I think you have to make.  It makes Boston the HEAVY favorite to win the championship for the next 2 seasons and the team would still be a contender for the 2 years after that.  I just don't think Brown gets Boston to that level at any time in his career.  He just isn't the same class of player and never will be. 

I mean who is beating this team

Starters - White, Brogdon, Durant, Tatum, Rob
Rotation - PP, Curry, Gallo, Al
Deep Bench - Kornet, Ryan, Hauser, Kabengele, Davison

Still have a couple of open spots for vets and the smaller TPE's to fill in for some usable deeper rotation spots.


Too many people on here focus on the ages of Tatum and Brown, but a lot of the depth is all older.  You have Al and Gallo in their 30's, and even Brogdon will be 30 this year.  Smart will be 29 in year 9 as a smaller guard who is always banged up.  Rob is young obviously, but is hurt a lot.  How much longer are those guys going to be the same level of player and when they age or injure out, how is the team replacing them and still remaining a contender, especially when you have 65-70% of the cap tied up in Tatum and Brown. 

The window is now, it isn't 4 years from now.  You capitalize on the window when it is open.  It is open now.

[Birdman]

I agree with you Moranis..Getting top Free Agents to come here is hard..u can get some cheap vets & let’s win a couple before the window closes

[Csfan1984]

I still feel KD is the better player the next two years, you have limited life on Al and know nothing on TL or Brogdon long term. Even Gallo will be less impactful each year. So getting a big short term upgrade is a plus. Then we know Brown could also leave in his FA.

I always say yes for the first offer C's made. The counter offer was too much.

[td450]

We didn't build this mostly homegrown team to win one title. I am much more interested in multiple titles.
Every Celtic championship group other than Garnett's won multiple titles.
Since when do we gut a young, talented team for a rent-a-malcontent to help us squeeze out just one.

There’s no question that if the choice is multiple titles with the mostly homegrown team v. 1 or 2 titles with KD you go with choice A.  But of course nothing is certain.  I lean to wanting to keep JB but I also believe that multiple title teams require the presence of an all-time talent. Has there ever been a multi-title dynasty without an all-time great / top 5 player in his prime?  Yes, Isiah is top 30-ish all-time and was top 5-ish in the league in his prime.

Will JT be that player?

There is only one truly dominant guy in the league and that is Giannis. He is locked into a nice team, but Middleton and Holiday are both borderline all-stars, and are in their early 30s. Unless Luka somehow makes a major leap as a defender, there isn't anyone in the wings either. That could change, but not soon.

There are other great players in the league, but none that can overpower Tatum and Brown.

We have two stars who are both younger. We have a supporting roster that will probably be stronger over the next 5 years than Milwaukee.

The question really boils down to whether the current Celtics can get past Milwaukee 2 or 3 times over that span. If they can, we will inevitably see Jayson Tatum as an MVP level player.

I think we can. We have a better constructed roster than Milwaukee.

[footey]

It’s all about championships!! Got ask yourself, will Brown bring us some? Maybe..would Durant? Probably..but got to have a nice bench & role players to help..I wouldn’t trade the farm for Durant but Brown & some pieces, yes

Brown, Smart, Grant, and draft picks for Durant and Curry is a trade I think you have to make.  It makes Boston the HEAVY favorite to win the championship for the next 2 seasons and the team would still be a contender for the 2 years after that.  I just don't think Brown gets Boston to that level at any time in his career.  He just isn't the same class of player and never will be. 

I mean who is beating this team

Starters - White, Brogdon, Durant, Tatum, Rob
Rotation - PP, Curry, Gallo, Al
Deep Bench - Kornet, Ryan, Hauser, Kabengele, Davison

Still have a couple of open spots for vets and the smaller TPE's to fill in for some usable deeper rotation spots.


Too many people on here focus on the ages of Tatum and Brown, but a lot of the depth is all older.  You have Al and Gallo in their 30's, and even Brogdon will be 30 this year.  Smart will be 29 in year 9 as a smaller guard who is always banged up.  Rob is young obviously, but is hurt a lot.  How much longer are those guys going to be the same level of player and when they age or injure out, how is the team replacing them and still remaining a contender, especially when you have 65-70% of the cap tied up in Tatum and Brown. 

The window is now, it isn't 4 years from now.  You capitalize on the window when it is open.  It is open now.

That bench is pathetic from a defensive perspective.

[LilRip]

We didn't build this mostly homegrown team to win one title. I am much more interested in multiple titles.
Every Celtic championship group other than Garnett's won multiple titles.
Since when do we gut a young, talented team for a rent-a-malcontent to help us squeeze out just one.

There’s no question that if the choice is multiple titles with the mostly homegrown team v. 1 or 2 titles with KD you go with choice A.  But of course nothing is certain.  I lean to wanting to keep JB but I also believe that multiple title teams require the presence of an all-time talent. Has there ever been a multi-title dynasty without an all-time great / top 5 player in his prime?  Yes, Isiah is top 30-ish all-time and was top 5-ish in the league in his prime.

Will JT be that player?

There is only one truly dominant guy in the league and that is Giannis. He is locked into a nice team, but Middleton and Holiday are both borderline all-stars, and are in their early 30s. Unless Luka somehow makes a major leap as a defender, there isn't anyone in the wings either. That could change, but not soon.

There are other great players in the league, but none that can overpower Tatum and Brown.

We have two stars who are both younger. We have a supporting roster that will probably be stronger over the next 5 years than Milwaukee.

The question really boils down to whether the current Celtics can get past Milwaukee 2 or 3 times over that span. If they can, we will inevitably see Jayson Tatum as an MVP level player.

I think we can. We have a better constructed roster than Milwaukee.

This is where I really disagree although I know many posters here share your same optimism. Tatum and Brown are great, for sure. However, I think assuming that we have a 5-year window of dominance is just not true because 1) the team needed the revival of old man Horford for last year’s deep playoff run (especially to defend Giannis) and 2) other teams are constantly working hard to get better.

The Bucks won it all 2 years ago with Giannis as their best player, a perennial MVP and DPOY candidate. Despite running most of their championship team back, you’re essentially saying their time might already be over because the Celtics have finally arrived. See how quick of a fall that was? It’s highly possible that the same can happen to the C’s. Maybe not next year but in 2-3 years? Especially in the era of player empowerment?

The window is now. Gotta strike when the iron is hot

[hpantazo]

I think people are underestimating the impact this would have on the Celtics defense. This Celtics team was built on defense and that's what got them as far as they did. Swapping Brown with KD hurts us significantly on the defensive end. KD is old. His age doesn't impact his offense as much, but it sure does impact his defense. You run him out there in key minutes and teams will attack him as the weak link on what used to be our impenetrable defense. Our team as it stands now is a quick, athletic, versatile, and smart defenders who can switch everything. Brogdon just adds to that. Insert an old lanky tall guy with slow lateral movement and you lose our best weapon. The only way I can see for compensating for it somewhat is to play KD at the 5, and you can't get away with that too often either.

[Moranis]

I think people are underestimating the impact this would have on the Celtics defense. This Celtics team was built on defense and that's what got them as far as they did. Swapping Brown with KD hurts us significantly on the defensive end. KD is old. His age doesn't impact his offense as much, but it sure does impact his defense. You run him out there in key minutes and teams will attack him as the weak link on what used to be our impenetrable defense. Our team as it stands now is a quick, athletic, versatile, and smart defenders who can switch everything. Brogdon just adds to that. Insert an old lanky tall guy with slow lateral movement and you lose our best weapon. The only way I can see for compensating for it somewhat is to play KD at the 5, and you can't get away with that too often either.

The C's were built on defense because they didn't have the top end talent you typically need.  You add one of the greatest scorers in NBA history your defense doesn't need to be quite as good.