How far are our players from their ceiling?

[Roy H.]

In other words, how much upside / potential do they have left?

Arbitrarily, I'll list the following guys:

Tatum
Brown
Timelord
Smart
Grant
Pritchard
White
Brogdon

[Celtics2021]

I think Tatum has MVP potential.  He took a major step forward with his creating for others last year, and I expect him to build on that by getting a better feel on when to create and when to try to aggressively score.  We also saw the strength gains pay off last year, and I expect a bit more of that this year, as he’s only 19 and has room to grow.  I also think his defense continues to grow — we saw its potential vs. Durant.  Sky is the limit.

Brown should have some modest growth left in him.

Time Lord obviously has massive untapped potential, but I do think his body will limit him.  Next year will be big to see if he’s fully recovered and playing like he did during the regular season or if he’s still tentative like the postseason.  I’d love to see him extend the range on his shot a bit, which would help him take advantage of his passing ability even more by making teams defend him on the perimeter.

Grant has some growth likely left.  The step forward he took on defense was great.  One thing he needs to do a better job at is using his physical strength and low center of gravity to keep interior players further from the basket when he’s switched onto them.  They’ll always have the height advantage, but if he can keep them at 6 feet from the basket instead of 4, his effectiveness against them would increase substantially.  On offense I’d love to see him get a little craftier with upfakes when he’s got the ball near the basket, since he gets blocked a lot.

Smart probably has some more growth as a distributor — he took a big step this year, but he slipped into bad habits at times.  I think another year of confidence that he has that role of a PG will increase the consistency.

I think Brogdon is what he is (which is good when he’s healthy).  I expect his 3-Point numbers will look more like his time in Milwaukee than Indiana as he’ll be off ball more.  He was a 41% from 3 with the Bucks, and 83% of his 3s were assisted.  In Indiana he was 35% from 3, and only 59% of his 3s were assisted.

Hopefully White works on his shooting, but I think he is what he is, which is a streaky shooter.  I like everything else about his game.

I honestly hope we trade Pritchard.  I think he’s got a little growth, which should give him some value in the trade market, but the small trade I want to see happen in January or February is Pritchard for Kenrich Williams.

You left off Davison, who I think becomes our starting PG in the 2025-2026 season.

[td450]

In other words, how much upside / potential do they have left?

Arbitrarily, I'll list the following guys:

Tatum
Brown
Timelord
Smart
Grant
Pritchard
White
Brogdon

Marcus Smart taught me last year that you can't always tell, because players don't usually improve on basic issues like that at 28.

Tatum has a very developed skill set. He could always have a better year in any particular area, but he has a complete toolkit. Even though he's a bit older, Brown has more room to grow because he doesn't have a fully developed handle and he's had far less reps as a decision maker. He also could greatly benefit by focusing on his pivoting footwork, which is very inconsistent. That is something that can be improved in one summer. He's also got one more gear as an athlete. So I think Brown has more room to improve.

The primary area left to evolve for Tatum and Brown is in the quality of their reads and decision making. This is what separates the top players. Players that get the reps under pressure usually make some gains in that area until they turn 27 or so.  Some players improve past that point. They both should get better there.

Robert Williams obviously can improve in numerous ways.

Grant Williams and Derrick White should improve their consistency quite a bit.

Team continuity is a pretty huge factor here. One of the reasons to keep this group together is that it already has quite a bit of continuity in the bank, and we could continue it for 4-5 more years. That's worth something.

[JBcat]

In other words, how much upside / potential do they have left?

Arbitrarily, I'll list the following guys:

Tatum
Brown
Timelord
Smart
Grant
Pritchard
White
Brogdon

Timelord as a couple others have said has untapped potential still. If he develops a nice offensive arsenal to go along with his physical ability and how good he is defensively, he could possibly get close to an all star level player.

[Who]

Is what he is = Rob Williams, Smart, D White, Pritchard, Brogdon.

Marginal improvement = G Williams

Significant room for improvement = Tatum & Jaylen

----------------------

Jaylen is such a hard worker. I could see him being a player in his late 20s early 30s still making good improvements to his game.

Tatum has shown sustained periods (months) of borderline top 5 level play. He hasn't been able to maintain that for a full season yet but that will come if he keeps working.

[Atzar]

I have two thoughts, one regarding each Williams. 

The first is that I don't think Rob has as much upside left as people believe.  Players often get better at the things they already do, but they rarely just add a new skill out of nowhere that they didn't possess before.  He might start shooting that 15-footer a bit more, but I don't see him developing enough of an on-ball offensive game to really take advantage of his passing ability.  The occasional midrange isn't enough to unlock that IMO.  His upside is tied more to games played than improved skillset.  He's already good... he impacts the game and he could win a DPOY someday if he puts a long, healthy season together.  I just think he is what he is on offense - a finisher rather than a creator. 

Conversely, I think people underestimate Grant's potential for improvement.  His inability to rebound is a problem but he flashes a variety of skills that could make him a decent starter if he ever develops consistency with them.  His willingness to attack closeouts toward the end of last season interested me, even if the results were mixed.  This would be a good way to round out his offensive arsenal, especially if he can mix in some of the court vision that he displayed at times in college.  Also, I'd like to see him stretch his range towards the top the arc so we can involve him in the screen game more.  The guy is built like a cinder block with feet.  I want him to crush people on screens. 

[Vermont Green]

I am with Aztar, I don't expect a lot more growth out of Rob Williams.  The ones to watch are Brown and Tatum.  Predicting this kind of growth in an athlete is probably the hardest thing to do.  For both of these guys, it is more about how they handling things emotionally.  We already know that all the physical tools are there.

I expect growth in both, meaningful growth.  Growth in their individual contribution and how they are able to make the team better.  I don't know how to quantify this though.  10% better?  That does not sound like much but I think it makes a big difference.

[liam]

I have two thoughts, one regarding each Williams. 

The first is that I don't think Rob has as much upside left as people believe.  Players often get better at the things they already do, but they rarely just add a new skill out of nowhere that they didn't possess before.  He might start shooting that 15-footer a bit more, but I don't see him developing enough of an on-ball offensive game to really take advantage of his passing ability.  The occasional midrange isn't enough to unlock that IMO.  His upside is tied more to games played than improved skillset.  He's already good... he impacts the game and he could win a DPOY someday if he puts a long, healthy season together.  I just think he is what he is on offense - a finisher rather than a creator. 

Conversely, I think people underestimate Grant's potential for improvement.  His inability to rebound is a problem but he flashes a variety of skills that could make him a decent starter if he ever develops consistency with them.  His willingness to attack closeouts toward the end of last season interested me, even if the results were mixed.  This would be a good way to round out his offensive arsenal, especially if he can mix in some of the court vision that he displayed at times in college.  Also, I'd like to see him stretch his range towards the top the arc so we can involve him in the screen game more.  The guy is built like a cinder block with feet.  I want him to crush people on screens.

Most 24 year old big men continue to improve until their 30s. TIMELORD is still young and learning. I expect improvement in his shooting and in learning the big man vet tricks around the rim. He was a weak free throw shooter coming in and now he's a 72% free throw shooter. He's a double-double guy with lots of room to improve. TIMELORD is the same age as Kabengele...

[LilRip]

I’m on the opposite end here vs some of you guys. I actually think there isn’t much improvement left for JB/JT. All their leaps are gone. Now it’s just steady incremental growth, particularly on softer skills. So yeah, I view them as fairly close to finished products.

[SHAQATTACK]

I look for most improvement from Rob …provided he can stay healthy.  And then Jaylen.   I think both of their beat ball is maybe yet to come.  Mostly steady improvements.


Brogdon and Smart are pretty much finished products . 

[Moranis]

Timelord and Tatum are about it other than some incremental improvement, and Tatum may be about done. 

[liam]

Timelord and Tatum are about it other than some incremental improvement, and Tatum may be about done.

At 24? Neither is yet at their peak. Both will get better.

[celticsclay]

Rob Williams was much improved last year than the year before in most peoples opinions right? Why would he stop getting better immediately after that.

[knuckleballer]

If Rob Williams starts knocking down a 15 foot jumper consistently, his offensive contribution will really take off.  I think he’s been working at it.

[celticsclay]

If Rob Williams starts knocking down a 15 foot jumper consistently, his offensive contribution will really take off.  I think he’s been working at it.

And this is also seemingly the easiest skill to add. Only a few players like Dwight Howard, Gobert, capela and deandre jordan have been unable to this off the top of my head in the last 5 years (I’m sure there are others) but a lot more guys seemed to have done this than not.