Putting Our 4th Quarter Chokes At Home In Perspective

[footey]

Rewatched 4th quarter. GS made their shots and we missed ours. When games are close, luck becomes a bigger factor.

My hope lies in fact Rob played another good game and we need him to win this thing.

[Phantom255x]

Why don’t you post a log of games we pulled out in the 4th? Let’s start with games 1 and 3 of this series. It’s basketball. Sometimes the ball doesn’t go in the basket. Sometimes it does.

They're 6-5 at home, and 4 of the losses were because they completely choked down the stretch.

Yeah they've had a few great stretches to secure wins but it's more losses than wins in that regard this postseason. Homecourt advantage really hasn't been a thing for the C's this playoffs which is sort of odd

[LilRip]

But see that’s the thing, sure you could call it luck but it’s also been the general trend of the team. In clutch time stats, C’s were 29th in the league at 13-22 in clutch time situations. Even if you take into account the magical 2nd half turnaround, I think they were 7-8, which is better but still a little below League average.

In the playoffs, C’s are 7-5 (4 of those wins vs BKN) but with an offensive rating of 89 (drtg of 103). Translation: if they’re gonna win in the clutch, it’s likely because of their defense because 89 isn’t really getting it done.

The other translation, C’s are 7-3 when games haven’t been close. C’s can get it done in non-clutch time, buoyed by an overall net rating of +5 (highest of any team in the playoffs). C’s can be the most dominant team and can knock a team out early in the game, or have a comfortable enough cushion that it isn’t close. I think game 4 could’ve been this way too had our turnovers not kept GSW close. We were leading at the half by 5 but it could’ve been more had we not kept GSW around by gifting them points.

I’m not bashing the C’s. I’m just trying to call a spade, a spade. As we saw with the Nets team, as great as KD and Kyrie are, teams can’t just “turn it on”. Habits are formed in the regular season and at some point, we need to accept that teams are who they are. C’s aren’t great down the stretch in tight games. That’s how they’ve played all year, even in their magical 2nd half. And just because I say “they aren’t great down the stretch” doesn’t automatically translate to “C’s are d0oMeD and can NeV3r win in the clutch”. But C’s can blow teams out, including this Warriors team. And sure, C’s can still try to eke out a win in the clutch but like I said, in a tight game, it gets harder to pick them because they havent really thrived in those situations.

[angryguy77]

Game 5 vs. MIL, up 105-99 with 90 seconds to go. MIL ends on 11-2 run

Game 3 vs. MIA, Celtics cut deficit to 93-92 with 2 minutes to go, MIA scores 7 straight points

Game 6 vs. MIA, Celtics lead 97-94, MIA ends on 17-6 run

TONIGHT, Celtics lead 94-90, Warriors end final 5 minutes on 17-3 run.

It truly is ridiculous how much this team chokes away games like this, and especially at home. Somehow they're in the Finals but they definitely aren't making this easy for themselves. And now, yet again backs are against the wall going into a pivotal Game 5.

Didn't they win all those other series? Have a little faith. Two more wins.

Mke, Miami and the Nets don't have the HCA GS does.

It's tough to draw on those series' when GS home crowd is just different.

[MattyIce]

Game 5 vs. MIL, up 105-99 with 90 seconds to go. MIL ends on 11-2 run

Game 3 vs. MIA, Celtics cut deficit to 93-92 with 2 minutes to go, MIA scores 7 straight points

Game 6 vs. MIA, Celtics lead 97-94, MIA ends on 17-6 run

TONIGHT, Celtics lead 94-90, Warriors end final 5 minutes on 17-3 run.

It truly is ridiculous how much this team chokes away games like this, and especially at home. Somehow they're in the Finals but they definitely aren't making this easy for themselves. And now, yet again backs are against the wall going into a pivotal Game 5.

Didn't they win all those other series? Have a little faith. Two more wins.

Mke, Miami and the Nets don't have the HCA GS does.

It's tough to draw on those series' when GS home crowd is just different.

I can vouch for this, agreed GS home crowd is different than those nets/maimi...but it's not what it was in years past, oakland

[SparzWizard]

Game 5 vs. MIL, up 105-99 with 90 seconds to go. MIL ends on 11-2 run

Game 3 vs. MIA, Celtics cut deficit to 93-92 with 2 minutes to go, MIA scores 7 straight points

Game 6 vs. MIA, Celtics lead 97-94, MIA ends on 17-6 run

TONIGHT, Celtics lead 94-90, Warriors end final 5 minutes on 17-3 run.

It truly is ridiculous how much this team chokes away games like this, and especially at home. Somehow they're in the Finals but they definitely aren't making this easy for themselves. And now, yet again backs are against the wall going into a pivotal Game 5.

Didn't they win all those other series? Have a little faith. Two more wins.

Mke, Miami and the Nets don't have the HCA GS does.

It's tough to draw on those series' when GS home crowd is just different.

Milwaukee home court was pretty wild.

GSW home-court is alright. But the C's have shown they can win in SF in past years. Let's hope it remains that way this series.

[libermaniac]

Why don’t you post a log of games we pulled out in the 4th? Let’s start with games 1 and 3 of this series. It’s basketball. Sometimes the ball doesn’t go in the basket. Sometimes it does.

They're 6-5 at home, and 4 of the losses were because they completely choked down the stretch.

Yeah they've had a few great stretches to secure wins but it's more losses than wins in that regard this postseason. Homecourt advantage really hasn't been a thing for the C's this playoffs which is sort of odd

You sure about that?

4th quarter comebacks this post-season:

* Game 1 vs. Brooklyn - down 5 mid 4th
* Game 2 vs. Brooklyn - down 7 with 11:38 to go
* Game 4 vs. Milwaukee - down 7 to start the 4th
* Game 1 vs. Warriors - down 12 to start the 4th

Seems pretty even to me.  It's just that we, as fans, feel the pain of a blown lead more than the ecstasy of a comeback win.  In this day and age of 3-point shooting, leads aren't safe if they are not more than 15 points with less than 6 minutes to go.  Just appreciate what this team is doing.  They are giving their all to try to win it all.  And they are 2 wins away.  Nobody said it would be easy, and there are no guarantees that they'll win, but stop it with the narrative that they are choking.

[pearljammer10]

Much more concerned with our 3rd quarters as opposed to our 4ths.

[Phantom255x]

Why don’t you post a log of games we pulled out in the 4th? Let’s start with games 1 and 3 of this series. It’s basketball. Sometimes the ball doesn’t go in the basket. Sometimes it does.

They're 6-5 at home, and 4 of the losses were because they completely choked down the stretch.

Yeah they've had a few great stretches to secure wins but it's more losses than wins in that regard this postseason. Homecourt advantage really hasn't been a thing for the C's this playoffs which is sort of odd

You sure about that?

4th quarter comebacks this post-season:

* Game 1 vs. Brooklyn - down 5 mid 4th
* Game 2 vs. Brooklyn - down 7 with 11:38 to go
* Game 4 vs. Milwaukee - down 7 to start the 4th
* Game 1 vs. Warriors - down 12 to start the 4th

Seems pretty even to me.  It's just that we, as fans, feel the pain of a blown lead more than the ecstasy of a comeback win.  In this day and age of 3-point shooting, leads aren't safe if they are not more than 15 points with less than 6 minutes to go.  Just appreciate what this team is doing.  They are giving their all to try to win it all.  And they are 2 wins away.  Nobody said it would be easy, and there are no guarantees that they'll win, but stop it with the narrative that they are choking.

Dude, you're not wrong BUT I specifically said, "home games". It's in the thread title too.

Maybe I am overexaggerating a bit saying they "choked", but two of the games you listed are road games, not home games 

I still got C's in 6 btw

[Big333223]

I don't think the Celtcs had a single good offensive possession in the last 7 minutes of game 4.

The principles of ball movement that have gotten them this far are good but I think when it comes to crunch time, they have to find ways of getting the ball into the J's hands that aren't just endless pick and rolls 25 feet from the basket.

Maybe that means the other players have to continue moving the ball and get it back to Tatum/Brown even when they're getting open 3's. Look at what the Warriors did. They move the ball around but it still finds its way back to their best player every time.

[LilRip]

I don't think the Celtcs had a single good offensive possession in the last 7 minutes of game 4.

The principles of ball movement that have gotten them this far are good but I think when it comes to crunch time, they have to find ways of getting the ball into the J's hands that aren't just endless pick and rolls 25 feet from the basket.

Maybe that means the other players have to continue moving the ball and get it back to Tatum/Brown even when they're getting open 3's. Look at what the Warriors did. They move the ball around but it still finds its way back to their best player every time.

Same thoughts. The team can do better than Marcus Smart threes above the break. Wide open or not, those shots will almost always be there anyway, particularly down the stretch. Let’s try and run some plays to get the J’s in a position to attack quickly and score.

[SparzWizard]

Thing with Tatum is...his shoulder is either shot or he's just getting pressured in his first ever NBA Finals appearance.

But I've seen him making those crazy reverse passes and knocking down 3's from time-to-time so it seems like his shoulder isn't quite as troublesome.

[Phantom255x]

Thing with Tatum is...his shoulder is either shot or he's just getting pressured in his first ever NBA Finals appearance.

But I've seen him making those crazy reverse passes and knocking down 3's from time-to-time so it seems like his shoulder isn't quite as troublesome.

I agree with Udoka. A lot of times it seems Tatum is hunting for fouls more than actually trying to make his shots. It's clearly a reason he's been blowing so many of these easy layups. Like if Tatum was hitting all the easy bunnies even at an "average" pace he'd easily be averaging 27+ PPG this series. Just way too many easy points being left off the scoreboard and Tatum's stats.

[Moranis]

Thing with Tatum is...his shoulder is either shot or he's just getting pressured in his first ever NBA Finals appearance.

But I've seen him making those crazy reverse passes and knocking down 3's from time-to-time so it seems like his shoulder isn't quite as troublesome.

I agree with Udoka. A lot of times it seems Tatum is hunting for fouls more than actually trying to make his shots. It's clearly a reason he's been blowing so many of these easy layups. Like if Tatum was hitting all the easy bunnies even at an "average" pace he'd easily be averaging 27+ PPG this series. Just way too many easy points being left off the scoreboard and Tatum's stats.

Or he has just been asked to carry so much of the load that he is just wearing down.  Coupled with a bum shoulder and it is easy to see how he isn't shooting as well (especially at the line where he is down like 12% from his season average to the finals).  Tatum's shoulder is bothering him and he is being asked to do so much offensively, he is just wearing down.

That is where not having another guy that is both a good shooter and good playmaker really hurts.  Smart is a good playmaker but a bad shooter and Brown is a good shooter but a bad playmaker.  If those two could just combine into one player, they'd be the perfect compliment to Tatum.

[Phantom255x]

Thing with Tatum is...his shoulder is either shot or he's just getting pressured in his first ever NBA Finals appearance.

But I've seen him making those crazy reverse passes and knocking down 3's from time-to-time so it seems like his shoulder isn't quite as troublesome.

I agree with Udoka. A lot of times it seems Tatum is hunting for fouls more than actually trying to make his shots. It's clearly a reason he's been blowing so many of these easy layups. Like if Tatum was hitting all the easy bunnies even at an "average" pace he'd easily be averaging 27+ PPG this series. Just way too many easy points being left off the scoreboard and Tatum's stats.

Or he has just been asked to carry so much of the load that he is just wearing down.  Coupled with a bum shoulder and it is easy to see how he isn't shooting as well (especially at the line where he is down like 12% from his season average to the finals).  Tatum's shoulder is bothering him and he is being asked to do so much offensively, he is just wearing down.

That is where not having another guy that is both a good shooter and good playmaker really hurts.  Smart is a good playmaker but a bad shooter and Brown is a good shooter but a bad playmaker.  If those two could just combine into one player, they'd be the perfect compliment to Tatum.

My biggest issue is that they seem to freeze Jaylen out of the offense for large stretches and it kills us especially when Tatum isn't shooting well, which has pretty much been every game this series unfortunately. Some of it was early foul trouble Game 2 where Jaylen started red hot, had to sit in the bench for a while and then was cold in the 2nd half.

But in Game 4, despite playing well and being a big reason we had those nice runs late in the 2nd quarter and early in the 4th, Jaylen took 2 shot attempts in the final 6 minutes.

I still maintain that the Warriors have no answers for Jaylen defensively and Jaylen can kill them, but sometimes I think they are forcing too much for Tatum to try and get him going, or Smart ends up having to take a tough shot late in the shotclock when the ball isn't moving.