Author Topic: What I’d like to see change in this series…  (Read 6024 times)

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Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2022, 10:32:28 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think at this point the Celtics are who they are and you gotta ride with it.

Marcus is who he is. He could play the way you want, but he might jack a bunch of threes, hit them and win a game.

Jaylen is who he is. He is going to isolate and try to dominate his man advantage and it could lead to a couple ugly turnovers. He could try to change, but that could lead to him not having a 4th quarter like in game 1 where he used his dribble to then dominate and push the team to victory

Regarding the jump shots, yeah, I would love more runs at the basket, but the two best guys at this create lots of turnovers when they do it and you already complained about Jaylen doing it. Best thing is to take what the defense gives you while running your regular offense as aggressively as possible. If that means hitting open jump shots, you take them. If it means going inside you do so. They're not going to change that approach, they've been doing it all year

Boston has shown all year that the guys that are open from three are going to take those shots. So whether it Tatum, Brown , Al, Pritchard, Grant, Smart, White or Theis, the guy open on the three, if it's wide open, is going to take it. That's who the Celtics are, that's not going to change by trying to funnel the ball to and away from certain three point shooters.

Theis got some court time already. He might see more. He might not. That depends on a lot of factors with the biggest being health. If Rob Williams is healthy enough to play lots of impactful minutes, he should play and Theis should sit because Rob is the more impactful, better and more important player. If Rob is limited and not that effective unless played in much less minutes, play Theis. Kinda been that way since Theis got here and, once again, that's not going to change.

At some point everyone needs to embrace these Celtics for what they are and live with the little things that might drive them crazy. They are who they are and who they are has been the best team in the Association for the past 55-60 games that's just 3 wins from a title against a very beatable team. I for one think, just the way they are and the way they play will be good enough to raise banner #18.

So I hope they stay the way they are, just stay aggressive, play Smart and everything will work out from there.

Then in the off-season, get better at some stuff and enact some change and come back better to defend that title.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2022, 10:47:50 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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They don't need to change anything.  Just the normal game to game and in-game adjustments.

The key to this series for Boston is how they handle the pressure, the bigness of the moment.  This is not about Xs and Os at this point.  If the Celtics can keep their poise, not get caught up in the moment, the rest is going to take care of itself.

Game 2 is the next big moment for the team.  A huge opportunity.  I feel good that the Celtics are going to come out of Game 1 with confidence and their collective heads in the right place.  But I am nervous and I am not even playing.  All I have to do is sit on the couch and remember to put on my lucky hat.  The pressure is getting to me so I can appreciate how difficult it must be these players.

Well see in a few hours.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2022, 11:04:00 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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I want us to play inside - outside - inside.

Beat their perimeter D, kick, then kick back inside with favorable position. Get some easy looks inside and keep them guessing. Fully break that defense down.

They are not athletic enough to play 1 on 1 with us. Be patient and wait for truly good looks. Wear down those old legs with long possessions.

They're going to surrender a lot of early good looks. Wait for the GREAT looks.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2022, 11:05:52 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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What they need to do is keep the ball moving. The Warriors defenders all looked like deers in headlights when the C's were moving the ball around and kicking it out or simply passing to the open man in the post. That'll tire them out but also make them more confused. I'm not as convinced Kerr is capable of making in-game adjustments like Spoelstra and he clearly didn't have answers during that 4th quarter of Game 1.
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Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2022, 02:49:49 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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I think at this point the Celtics are who they are and you gotta ride with it.

Marcus is who he is. He could play the way you want, but he might jack a bunch of threes, hit them and win a game.

Jaylen is who he is. He is going to isolate and try to dominate his man advantage and it could lead to a couple ugly turnovers. He could try to change, but that could lead to him not having a 4th quarter like in game 1 where he used his dribble to then dominate and push the team to victory

Regarding the jump shots, yeah, I would love more runs at the basket, but the two best guys at this create lots of turnovers when they do it and you already complained about Jaylen doing it. Best thing is to take what the defense gives you while running your regular offense as aggressively as possible. If that means hitting open jump shots, you take them. If it means going inside you do so. They're not going to change that approach, they've been doing it all year

Boston has shown all year that the guys that are open from three are going to take those shots. So whether it Tatum, Brown , Al, Pritchard, Grant, Smart, White or Theis, the guy open on the three, if it's wide open, is going to take it. That's who the Celtics are, that's not going to change by trying to funnel the ball to and away from certain three point shooters.

Theis got some court time already. He might see more. He might not. That depends on a lot of factors with the biggest being health. If Rob Williams is healthy enough to play lots of impactful minutes, he should play and Theis should sit because Rob is the more impactful, better and more important player. If Rob is limited and not that effective unless played in much less minutes, play Theis. Kinda been that way since Theis got here and, once again, that's not going to change.

At some point everyone needs to embrace these Celtics for what they are and live with the little things that might drive them crazy. They are who they are and who they are has been the best team in the Association for the past 55-60 games that's just 3 wins from a title against a very beatable team. I for one think, just the way they are and the way they play will be good enough to raise banner #18.

So I hope they stay the way they are, just stay aggressive, play Smart and everything will work out from there.

Then in the off-season, get better at some stuff and enact some change and come back better to defend that title.

I don’t get the “They are who they are, aren’t going to make any changes now” mindset. A team should always be trying to make minor tweaks and adjustments in order to improve.

Shouldn’t a team also be playing somewhat differently depending on who their opponent is as each team can have different strengths and weaknesses? You’re not going to play the same way against the Warriors that you did against the Bucks. Totally different players, completely different playing styles and offenses.

Not saying to overhaul what they do, but does Brown really need to dribble the ball through his legs 4 times in order to get a shot off? These guys are 6’6+, they don’t need to dribble the air out of the ball to go from the 3pt arc to the rim.

I’m thrilled that the C’s are in the Finals, but they got there by the skin of their teeth and were clearly the more talented team in each series. It was great to steal game 1 from the Warriors, but the fact that the C’s were trailing for 90% of the game, shouldn’t be ignored. They need to be better in game 2 than they were in game 1. I certainly don’t expect Boston to shoot 50% from 3pt like they did on Thursday.  There is definitely room for improvement.



« Last Edit: June 05, 2022, 03:10:25 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2022, 11:25:21 PM »

Offline flybono

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Can anyone explain the total meltdowns this Team has in 3rd Quarter ?
It’s mind boggling

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2022, 04:13:14 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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The thing is that during the 2nd half of the regular season and at times in the playoffs, they have made changes to those self-destructive habits that have cost them so many games. Smart quit jacking up so many 3's and put more effort into running the offense, ball movement and off-ball player movement greatly improved, Brown and Tatum cut down on their reckless drives into defensive traffic, Tatum got the ball out of his hands quicker before defensive pressure arrived. I would say the defense became more physical, which was obvious in the Nets and Bucks series. Under pressure, they seem to revert to their old ways sometimes.

Seems to me that Golden State would struggle against an increase in physical pressure on the defensive end. Bounce some of their finesse scorers around and knock Draymond Green on his ass a few times. Marcus needs to hit back when Green tries to intimidate with his mouth and dirty play. Jaylen and Jayson have to be tougher standing up to that moron. It was obvious Grant was not bothered by the guy.

The offensive issues are obvious and never-ending it seems. I will never understand how Brown and Smart keep making the same mistakes again and again that have killed this team's chances of winning. They have seen how successful the team has been when they stop those mistakes and play smarter. Inexplicable. Maybe Ime needs to pull them when they start turning the ball over or taking bad shots. Would that get their attention ? Why don't we run some motion more often ? It doesn't have to be every possession, but should be at least half of them when we are in half-court mode. What do these guys talk about during film sessions ?

Finally, how much was Ime chewing on the officials in Game 2. He should have been all over them on some of the obvious favoritism. I see Green, while out of the game resting, all over one of the refs during a timeout. I hope Ime made his opinions on tonight's awful officiating known loud and clear in his post-game. He needed to say the type of things that get you fined. And don't apologize.
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Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2022, 02:20:06 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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The thing is that during the 2nd half of the regular season and at times in the playoffs, they have made changes to those self-destructive habits that have cost them so many games. Smart quit jacking up so many 3's and put more effort into running the offense, ball movement and off-ball player movement greatly improved, Brown and Tatum cut down on their reckless drives into defensive traffic, Tatum got the ball out of his hands quicker before defensive pressure arrived. I would say the defense became more physical, which was obvious in the Nets and Bucks series. Under pressure, they seem to revert to their old ways sometimes.

Seems to me that Golden State would struggle against an increase in physical pressure on the defensive end. Bounce some of their finesse scorers around and knock Draymond Green on his ass a few times. Marcus needs to hit back when Green tries to intimidate with his mouth and dirty play. Jaylen and Jayson have to be tougher standing up to that moron. It was obvious Grant was not bothered by the guy.

The offensive issues are obvious and never-ending it seems. I will never understand how Brown and Smart keep making the same mistakes again and again that have killed this team's chances of winning. They have seen how successful the team has been when they stop those mistakes and play smarter. Inexplicable. Maybe Ime needs to pull them when they start turning the ball over or taking bad shots. Would that get their attention ? Why don't we run some motion more often ? It doesn't have to be every possession, but should be at least half of them when we are in half-court mode. What do these guys talk about during film sessions ?

Finally, how much was Ime chewing on the officials in Game 2. He should have been all over them on some of the obvious favoritism. I see Green, while out of the game resting, all over one of the refs during a timeout. I hope Ime made his opinions on tonight's awful officiating known loud and clear in his post-game. He needed to say the type of things that get you fined. And don't apologize.

Grant and Al were abusing Green all game. He’s a loudmouth, but those two are much stronger and they knocked him on his ass several times during the game.

Ime was on the officials which was good to see. He picked up a technical in the second half, which is exceedingly rare for him.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2022, 02:50:45 PM »

Offline Erik

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Can anyone explain the total meltdowns this Team has in 3rd Quarter ?
It’s mind boggling

As someone who has played, I can.

When the pressure is off, it's easier to make 3 pointers. When you're down by 10-15, that rim gets pretty small from your eyes. Unless you are a Tatum or a Curry and fully understand that you are allowed to shoot any shot on the floor, you're going to be more timid.

We can't let the game be close going into halftime because our game is slow the game down, play great defense, and force a tough shot near the buzzer.

We are better defensively. They are likely better offensively. They want high scoring games, we want low scoring games. They want us to be on offense more than defense... so they come out in the 3rd and shoot quick 3s. If the difference between their 3 point percentage on a quick 3 vs one after some ball movement is negligible, it's a good trick to speed up the game. This gets us playing fast and loose trying to emotionally match them, when we want to be playing slow and methodical. It's like in poker if there is a loose player, the entire table tends to loosen up.. but if one person stays tight, they can make a lot of money when that hand comes.

To answer the topic related to this, we need to slow the game down. This means ball pressure bringing the ball up, taking away the 3 point line even if it means giving up a layup every once in a while, and going through our full offense with a shot somewhere between 5-8 left on the clock.

When they have to move the ball around to find someone open, it slows everything down and now when they miss a chucked 3 pointer, instead of getting the ball back to try again in 15-20 seconds, now it's upwards of 45-50 seconds for them to think about that miss. Time makes people think about things. We have to make them work for every point.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2022, 12:13:37 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Well, hopefully some things change going into game 6. Wash, rinse, repeat isn’t working against the Warriors. Time to make some adjustments. Seems like the C’s offense is regressing  back to where it was earlier this year.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2022, 01:19:55 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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The thing is that during the 2nd half of the regular season and at times in the playoffs, they have made changes to those self-destructive habits that have cost them so many games. Smart quit jacking up so many 3's and put more effort into running the offense, ball movement and off-ball player movement greatly improved, Brown and Tatum cut down on their reckless drives into defensive traffic, Tatum got the ball out of his hands quicker before defensive pressure arrived. I would say the defense became more physical, which was obvious in the Nets and Bucks series. Under pressure, they seem to revert to their old ways sometimes.

Seems to me that Golden State would struggle against an increase in physical pressure on the defensive end. Bounce some of their finesse scorers around and knock Draymond Green on his ass a few times. Marcus needs to hit back when Green tries to intimidate with his mouth and dirty play. Jaylen and Jayson have to be tougher standing up to that moron. It was obvious Grant was not bothered by the guy.

The offensive issues are obvious and never-ending it seems. I will never understand how Brown and Smart keep making the same mistakes again and again that have killed this team's chances of winning. They have seen how successful the team has been when they stop those mistakes and play smarter. Inexplicable. Maybe Ime needs to pull them when they start turning the ball over or taking bad shots. Would that get their attention ? Why don't we run some motion more often ? It doesn't have to be every possession, but should be at least half of them when we are in half-court mode. What do these guys talk about during film sessions ?

Finally, how much was Ime chewing on the officials in Game 2. He should have been all over them on some of the obvious favoritism. I see Green, while out of the game resting, all over one of the refs during a timeout. I hope Ime made his opinions on tonight's awful officiating known loud and clear in his post-game. He needed to say the type of things that get you fined. And don't apologize.

  The lack of cutting is a lot to do with being held by the arms or pushed back. This stuff is called before the finals.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2022, 01:52:34 PM »

Offline liam

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Faster faster faster.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2022, 01:39:18 PM »

Offline ozgod

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I only want 2 things.

1. Less turnovers

2. Less whining about officiating

That's it. Both within their control. Everything else will take care of itself if they do that.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2022, 05:12:38 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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I want us to play inside - outside - inside.

Beat their perimeter D, kick, then kick back inside with favorable position. Get some easy looks inside and keep them guessing. Fully break that defense down.

They are not athletic enough to play 1 on 1 with us. Be patient and wait for truly good looks. Wear down those old legs with long possessions.

They're going to surrender a lot of early good looks. Wait for the GREAT looks.

TOUGH to do when you're walking the Ball up the court---the 24 second clock runs down and you are left with crappy shots.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: What I’d like to see change in this series…
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2022, 05:19:54 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Limit the turnovers, and actually move the ball + play with a faster pace

I'm noticing the last few games, far too many times the offense just stagnates and goes to either iso-ball or a guy driving into a triple team and basically turning it over or missing badly which is predictable. Remember those stretches in Game 1 and also the 1st and 4th quarters of Game 3, go back to some of that please.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller